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Posted: 1/16/2006 2:03:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 3:57:25 AM EDT by sgtstinger]
Well, the title of the thread pretty much says it all...

I'm just wondering because after pretty BAD experiences with two different AK's(Gordon Technologies SLR-100 & CAI SAR-1) which I no longer own, I'm considering trying an AK one more time.

Not looking for "Match Grade" accuracy, but I'd be happy with 5-shot groups that go into 3" - 4" at 100 yards & 6" - 8" at 200 yards...

I found a good deal on an Unissued Romanian AKM parts kit and was planning on going with a custom build on a stamped receiver. I'd also consider having a custom build using a Polish Underfolder parts kit...Hell, in the tradition of Arfcom, I may get BOTH!!!

Thanks in advance!



Link Posted: 1/16/2006 2:51:45 AM EDT
Arsenal 101-S (post ban style) very easy to keep all shots on the 6" diameter aiming black on a 100 yard military target bull ( maybe 2 1/2 or 3 MOA)
At 200 yards no problem keeping everything on a action pistol silhouette target.
Using Wolf or Silver Bear gives the same results.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:47:41 AM EDT
My suggestion is for you to get an milled Arsenal AK. They seem to hold tighter groups than a Stamped AK. IMO. All my stamped AK's shoot about a 6"-8" group at 100 . The milled AK's I have shoot about 3"-4" . About half. Thats shooting on a Bench in a rest at 100 yds. The most accurate AK I have personally ever witnessed is an Chinese Mak 90. ( MILLED ). Good Luck Wardawg
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:48:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:01:15 AM EDT
3 inch groups at 100 yards on my arsenal sam7 carbine ban style...i use portuguese 762 shoots well
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 9:44:15 AM EDT
I also would just like to say that my groups are with Wolf. If I tried different ammo it might get tighter. I believe the standar for measureing a group fired at 100 yds/M's is a five shot group .Got to count the flyer round also. , Go Milled...... Mak or a Arsenal.. WarDawg
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:28:38 AM EDT
My RML Maadi 25 yds (for fun) almost cutting one hole, 75 yards things open up a bit, can keep em in the black (folgers coffee lid approx 4") 100 yards 6" groups.

AMD-65 my home build, you probably won't believe it but about the same.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:26:32 PM EDT
I've never actually put a single one of my guns on paper so I can't give you a group size. But when my eyes are up to the task, I can hit a approximately 12"x30" plate our club has at 400 yards with nearly every shot with my SA M-7 R with no optic (yet!). I have 2 other 7.62x39 AKs that I can't duplicate this with, a Chinese pre-ban and a Hungarian SA85M.

We also have 12" gongs at 100 and 200 yards and anyone can hit them with pretty much any shouldered rifle.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:15:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
I've never actually put a single one of my guns on paper so I can't give you a group size. But when my eyes are up to the task, I can hit a approximately 12"x30" plate our club has at 400 yards with nearly every shot with my SA M-7 R with no optic (yet!)


That is impressive, considering the range 400 yards!

Wow!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:26:45 PM EDT
16" vepr will do that easy, mine will keep a whole mag inside 4" @ 100yd.

if you count 3 shot groups, then mine is a 1moa gun.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:45:21 AM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:43:51 AM EDT
I have a Yugo M70 that I built from a kit myself and I can get 3" groups at 100 yards with it.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:46:55 AM EDT
Global 1.6 Polish build. 3.0MOA. No exagerrations.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:52:43 AM EDT
Hungarian SA-85M, I'm getting 2-3" for 10 rounds at 100 yards, (open-sighted from a benchrested position, using pre-Wolf 123grn. Russian surplus ammo, purchased a long time ago in 1440 rnd crate)

Mike
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:14:35 AM EDT
ive got a MAK-90 that will get 2inch groups at 50m all day long. it will shoot rings around my SAR-1 and my hungarian parts gun.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:57:51 PM EDT
Changing out my rear leaf sight with a peep sight cut my group size in half.
Especially at 100 and 200 yards.
At 100 yards my groups went from 8" to 4", after installing a peep sight.


Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:24:08 PM EDT
Never put a group on paper. I shoot either at a berm behind the house, or the river down the road. So far every shot has hit the Berm or river, and at the approx spot I was aiming at. Does that help ya any?Oh yeah, I shoot an AMD65
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:33:57 AM EDT
One more trip to the top...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:36:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Global 1.6 Polish build. 3.0MOA. No exagerrations.



Who did your build and what kind of ammo are you using?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:45:05 AM EDT
Basic SAR1 with a 4" group with irons at 100yds. I don't do that much better with my AR 1/7 chrome lined bbl. 3"s at 100yds with irons........ Granted I tend not to shoot for groups with either anymore. Just when I first zeroed in for the first time.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 9:05:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Roger3:
Changing out my rear leaf sight with a peep sight cut my group size in half.
Especially at 100 and 200 yards.
At 100 yards my groups went from 8" to 4", after installing a peep sight.






which peep sight did you install to get this accuracy
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 9:55:21 AM EDT
I get around 4-6 inches using Russian hollowpoint at 100yds with the Intrac Maadi that I rebuilt into a pseudo 104, I think the last FSB/GB tweak centered it really good though. I can easily nail a 16 inch gong at 300yds with it but it's no where near as accurate my Arsenal M-5 5.56x45 ...
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:11:57 PM EDT
I can kill the hell out of pop cans at about 25 yards
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:13:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WarDawg:
My suggestion is for you to get an milled Arsenal AK. They seem to hold tighter groups than a Stamped AK. IMO. All my stamped AK's shoot about a 6"-8" group at 100 . The milled AK's I have shoot about 3"-4" . About half. Thats shooting on a Bench in a rest at 100 yds. The most accurate AK I have personally ever witnessed is an Chinese Mak 90. ( MILLED ). Good Luck Wardawg



My milled Arsenal is more accurate than I expected. I love this thing, beautiful gun. Built like a tank. From a benchrest hitting a 6" dia gong at 200 yards isn't hard to do. Offhand I can manage to do that about 25% of the time, and I know right when I pull the trigger if I am gonna hit it or not.

I get best results from golden tiger ammo, which I think is russian but I'm not sure. I actually shoot my AK a lot better than my AR with irons, not sure why.

I'm losing interest in ARs because of this gun. The only thing I wish I had was a scope mount so I could mount a Kobra on it.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:09:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 1:10:29 PM EDT by hank_612]
I use mojo peep sights and they are much easier to shoot accurately than the stock sights on my Maadi ARM or MAK. The Maadi is a 3-3.5 at 100 over a bag weapon and the Mak is slightly better than 3 inchs. The mojo sights made an major impovement for me. I like silver bear best but Wolf is not less accurate just seems dirtier.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:34:41 PM EDT
My Norinco MAK-90 will do 3-3.5" at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:56:45 PM EDT
Type in "krebs" on gunbroker.com and you'll see two options that will perform as described.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 2:09:08 PM EDT
of all my ak rifles,my vepr-2 is most accurate.about 2 inches at 100yards with wolf and norinco.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 11:17:22 AM EDT
My AK accuracy experience is as follows:
*Norinco Type 56 in 7.62x39 shoots around 3.5 with Golden Tiger
*WASR GP in 7.62x39 shoots around 4 with Silver Bear/Golden Tiger
*SAR 2 in 5.45x39 shoots around 2 or under with Dynamit Noble
*Century Yugo M70AB shoots around 2 or under with Wolf 122grn FMJ's
*BWest Type 56S in 7.62x39 shoots around 4 with Chicom yellow box
*Norinco 84S in 5.56x45 shoots around 3 with Wolf 55grn FMJ's.
I have owned many AK's and the accuracy of 7.62x39 variants seems to be between 2 and 5 MOA, depending on the weapon and ammo. My Century Yugo that I just bought has been the most accurate AK I have owned to date, shooting 2 MOA all day long and under with good ammo. I think 3 MOA should be the average and would be acceptible AK accuracy. This is certainly Minute-of-Badguy. 5.45 examples seem to be slightly more accurate than thier 7.62 counter parts. A major component of AK accuracy is quality ammo. For 7.62x39 WWB is very accurate and consistant and hand loading for this caliber can make very accurate and effective defensive bullets.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 12:57:24 PM EDT
Yugo M70 underfolder from CAI. First 5 shots were offhand from 25 yards with Wolf ammo and I could have put a sivler dollar over the group. Others are reporting the same fantastic results with these rifles.

To put that in perspective, I shoot about 2-3" groups with an AR-15 offhand at that range, so I was pretty damn impressed. I apparently do better with tangent sites thatn peep sites and the ergonomics (or lack therof) on an AK honestly seem a bit better for me. Best grouping I ever get with a rifle and it is with a dman underfolder AK of all things, LOL!
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 4:44:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oldjarheadfart:
Never put a group on paper. I shoot either at a berm behind the house, or the river down the road. So far every shot has hit the Berm or river, and at the approx spot I was aiming at. Does that help ya any?Oh yeah, I shoot an AMD65



Ahhhh, AMD-65 I raise my glass to you sir!

My 65 with 12.48" of rifling plus false can shoots equally as well as my RML.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 2:03:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By usamma:

Originally Posted By Roger3:
Changing out my rear leaf sight with a peep sight cut my group size in half.
Especially at 100 and 200 yards.
At 100 yards my groups went from 8" to 4", after installing a peep sight.






which peep sight did you install to get this accuracy



A Mojo Micro Click peep sight.
I got it from Red Star Arms.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:51:24 AM EDT
HOLY THREAD RESURECTION, BATMAN!!!!!


in other words.....


btt


Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:52:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Accomplice:
Type in "krebs" on gunbroker.com and you'll see two options that will perform as described.



I doubt that, no one really ever parts with a Krebs once they get one.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:31:47 AM EDT
I don't know about 7.63x39...but I can hold 5.45 out of my SLR on the 12" gong at 200 yds offhand. I need to get a 7.62 AK...
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 1:18:29 PM EDT
my wasr is not too acurate...but who gives a shit right...it dosent jam,it bump fires like a pig eating bacon,ang destroys everything i point it at (up to and including 1,000,000 yds)...get a wasr...they are the best ak known to man!
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:17:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtstinger:

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Global 1.6 Polish build. 3.0MOA. No exagerrations.



Who did your build and what kind of ammo are you using?



A guy named "Schulze" did my build and he used Winchester FMJ.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 3:27:54 PM EDT

from 30 yards I can nail budlight cans all day long buddy......
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:10:16 PM EDT
i have a yugo m70 I'm pleased with it, but I feel I need better sights. optics or iron. I have heard a weakness of the ak is the sights and I totally agree. I think I could get 3" groups with winchester ammo. wolf is just for fun, If I had to guess, my m70 shot a 4" group @ approx 100meters
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:51:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paul_the_welder:
from 30 yards I can nail budlight cans all day long buddy......



Assuming a can is 2.5" in diameter at it's smallest, you're boasting 7.5 MOA. That's really bad!
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DV:
Arsenal 101-S (post ban style) very easy to keep all shots on the 6" diameter aiming black on a 100 yard military target bull ( maybe 2 1/2 or 3 MOA)
At 200 yards no problem keeping everything on a action pistol silhouette target.
Using Wolf or Silver Bear gives the same results.



+1
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:30:29 AM EDT
It always helps to experiment with different ammo, especially when buying lower grade stuff like Wolf.

Yeah, I know, some of the guys will claim MOA at 10 miles with a WASR shooting Wolf, but a lot of people say a lot of things on the internet that they can't back up at the range.

Even when/if the Wolf hyper-accuracy claims pan out, that doesn't mean that they will for others. The only non-corrosive low-priced ammo that I thought shot better than it should have for the price paid was the old Chinese Norinco ammo. Norinco is pretty consistent stuff and I wish we could still get it. Wolf doesn't hold a candle to it! The Yugo ammo is decent, but apparently not available anymore and was corrosive. I haven't tried the Greek (Olympic) stuff in 7.62x39, but didn't like it very much in other calibers. Every firearm is a little different, and will "like" some ammo better than others. That's part of the reason why reloaders take the time to reload.

With that said, out of the AK's that I have experimented with (Romy, Egyptian & Yugo), I think that the Yugo is the most accurate.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:16:21 AM EDT
get Arsenal,.. you wont be disappointed

and as much as i hate to say it,.. Vepr's are nice shooters as well from what there owners tell me
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:19:48 AM EDT
in my day I owned two AK's....

My SAR1 would get groups around 3-4MOA if I did my part on a benchrest.

My first AK, a Hesse variant, would get 24MOA depending on how hard I threw the POS from 10 feet away.
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