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Posted: 1/11/2006 8:49:30 PM EDT
why is the arrival of the stamped arsenal receiver is so anticipated? I thought the whole milled deal was the 'original ak' attraction?

And I say this with total respect, ak brothers. just wondering, seeing as there are plenty of nice veprs or converted saigas around.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:02:01 PM EDT
i am no pureists,....

however i do own a Arsenal,.. and i love it. but they are up there when it comes to there price tag.
i think the stamped recivers are going to be a little cheaper,..but still retain the Arsenal quality that i love.

if i had the choice of a saiga,. vepr,. and Arsenal,...all the same price,. and all the same features,....
i would get the Arsenal first,. then the saiga.

do you own a arsenal? if you do you should understand.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:10:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:27:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:
why is the arrival of the stamped arsenal receiver is so anticipated? I thought the whole milled deal was the 'original ak' attraction?

And I say this with total respect, ak brothers. just wondering, seeing as there are plenty of nice veprs or converted saigas around.


The first AK-47 was stamped.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:37:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clange:

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:
why is the arrival of the stamped arsenal receiver is so anticipated? I thought the whole milled deal was the 'original ak' attraction?

And I say this with total respect, ak brothers. just wondering, seeing as there are plenty of nice veprs or converted saigas around.


The first AK-47 was stamped.

+1
OT, but didn't it have durability issues?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:01:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKLover_91:

Originally Posted By clange:

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:
why is the arrival of the stamped arsenal receiver is so anticipated? I thought the whole milled deal was the 'original ak' attraction?

And I say this with total respect, ak brothers. just wondering, seeing as there are plenty of nice veprs or converted saigas around.


The first AK-47 was stamped.

+1
OT, but didn't it have durability issues?


Yeah they went to milled because of durability issues, production issues, or both.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:09:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:
why is the arrival of the stamped arsenal receiver is so anticipated? I thought the whole milled deal was the 'original ak' attraction?

And I say this with total respect, ak brothers. just wondering, seeing as there are plenty of nice veprs or converted saigas around.



The stamped 7.62 arsenal rifle will be the AKM for the purists.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:22:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cruzie27:
i am no pureists,....

however i do own a Arsenal,.. and i love it. but they are up there when it comes to there price tag.
i think the stamped recivers are going to be a little cheaper,..but still retain the Arsenal quality that i love.

if i had the choice of a saiga,. vepr,. and Arsenal,...all the same price,. and all the same features,....
i would get the Arsenal first,. then the saiga.

do you own a arsenal? if you do you should understand.



why the saiga over the vepr?

I did have an arsenal years ago but the finish was very thick and it had ARSENAL stamped in huge letters on the side, I had it for awhile and sold it because i wasn't that much into rifles back then.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:23:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clange:

Yeah they went to milled because of durability issues, production issues, or both.



so why did they switch back for the AKM?
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:58:48 AM EDT
Its mostly speculation as to why the Soviets switched from the combination stamped/milled Type I to the milled types II and III.One theory is the stress on the junctions at the welds and rivets.In 1982 the Israelis captured a very well used type I from the PLO,on examination,it showed no signs of excessive stress in the areas mentioned.Another theory was the technology of the time,when the Soviets were making the type I,1948-1951,the parts were manufactured by several different plants across the Soviet Union so to reduce the ammount of components they decided it would be more beneficial to mill the reciever out of one block of steel.Later and after a design change from the type I reciever they implemented production of the New [AKM] stamped reciever.

why is the arrival of the stamped arsenal receiver is so anticipated? I thought the whole milled deal was the 'original ak' attraction? Currently,the only true imported AKM recievers avaliable are whats left of the SAR1,WUM1,Egyptian Maadis and the pre-ban Yugo,Hungarians,Egyptian and Chinese AKs.The only imported AK74 avaliable is the Arsenal SLR 105.I'm definately looking forward to the SLR 108!

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:28:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:

why the saiga over the vepr?

I did have an arsenal years ago but the finish was very thick and it had ARSENAL stamped in huge letters on the side, I had it for awhile and sold it because i wasn't that much into rifles back then.



i cant stand the vepr's reciver,..or its furniture...granted you can do alot of diffrent things with it,.
seeing the way the reciver is cut and the way the butt stock-pistol grip looks is what kills it for me.

with the Saiga (which i have shot,..unlike someone else in another thread) it comes in a pretty generic form,..but with a 30 min. and a dremel it can accept the regular AK stocks,and mags.....this basically allows you to customise your rifle the way you want to,.. or leave it stock. there is litterly no limit to what you can do with it.

now the same it true with the vepr,...but at some point you wil have to deal with the reciver.

as far as accuracy goes,.....Saiga vs. Vepr,.....unless you are shooting both from a rest in a bench compition you really will not notice the diffrence in accuracy,....if any. as with all rifles it depends on how good the guy behind the trigger is.

to me the Saiga is more like a sleeper AK,.. or better yet like a Mr. potatoe head AK that you can change around on a whim.

assuming now that your firmly planted on the dark side,....take another look at Arsenal
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:31:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JOHNO:
Its mostly speculation as to why the Soviets switched from the combination stamped/milled Type I to the milled types II and III.One theory is the stress on the junctions at the welds and rivets.In 1982 the Israelis captured a very well used type I from the PLO,on examination,it showed no signs of excessive stress in the areas mentioned.Another theory was the technology of the time,when the Soviets were making the type I,1948-1951,the parts were manufactured by several different plants across the Soviet Union so to reduce the ammount of components they decided it would be more beneficial to mill the reciever out of one block of steel.Later and after a design change from the type I reciever they implemented production of the New [AKM] stamped reciever.

why is the arrival of the stamped arsenal receiver is so anticipated? I thought the whole milled deal was the 'original ak' attraction? Currently,the only true imported AKM recievers avaliable are whats left of the SAR1,WUM1,Egyptian Maadis and the pre-ban Yugo,Hungarians,Egyptian and Chinese AKs.The only imported AK74 avaliable is the Arsenal SLR 105.I'm definately looking forward to the SLR 108!




I have heard several theorys.. They had trouble heat treating them and not having allot of rejects, they used captured German machines that wore out, etc.

An AK108 might be neat usless it just turns into a 7.62 AK74.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:40:38 AM EDT

the Saiga (which i have shot,..unlike someone else in another thread) it comes in a pretty generic form



No need to keep it vague. Since I wasnt talking about accuracy, but quality of the build, I dont see it making a difference.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:30:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 11:31:47 AM EDT by clange]

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:

Originally Posted By clange:

Yeah they went to milled because of durability issues, production issues, or both.



so why did they switch back for the AKM?


Like johno and stottman said, theres nothing but theories. The Janes guy on the history channel claims problems with welding technology, but he also says rumours that they 'came apart' were not true, so who knows. I've also heard they needed their stamped steel production capacity for other things, and there was excess machining capacity, etc etc. No one really knows.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:58:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clange:

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:

Originally Posted By clange:

Yeah they went to milled because of durability issues, production issues, or both.



so why did they switch back for the AKM?


Like johno and stottman said, theres nothing but theories. The Janes guy on the history channel claims problems with welding technology, but he also says rumours that they 'came apart' were not true, so who knows. I've also heard they needed their stamped steel production capacity for other things, and there was excess machining capacity, etc etc. No one really knows.




I think they switched back to the stamped because it was so much easier to make. I'm pretty sure a milled receiver takes a lot of time to make.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:17:26 PM EDT
When looking at Soviet production needs at the end of WWII as a whole, they had a huge need for stamped metal production. Switching to a milled receiver allowed them to use current milling machines and workers while taking a load off the stamped metal factories that could be better employed doing something else. With time, that was no longer as important as the cost and weight savings by stamping the receiver. They could also take the benefit of experience and make a better receiver.

The theory that the original stamped receivers didn't hold up has not been supported by any of the surviving examples.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:06:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:34:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 5:09:52 PM EDT by Mbsk01]
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:48:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:

Stottman, the SLR-108 will have the 45* gas block and it will be an AKM.

The SLR-107A1 will basically be an AK-74 in 7.62x39mm, with the 90* block and '74 front sight assembly. I guess it would be a fixed stock AK-103.



Tim, will there be a SLR107, ie a 90* block and a 14mm muzzle nut?
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:22:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:35:18 PM EDT
Why does Arsenal keep pushing their 7.62 guns when their prices are in competition now with 5.56 AR's for the most part and should compete accordingly. I would love to buy another stamped 5.56 Bulgarian.
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