Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/11/2006 4:07:28 PM EDT
Does the Saiga AK stack up favorably to the VEPRs and Arsenals? In which ways? Saiga any good?

thanks!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:14:23 PM EDT
Saigas are quite similar to VEPRs in the way they are manufactured, but they are normal thickness receivers. and they are configured for small single stack mags and have no pistol grip, they have to be modified. Arsenal milled are a different animal but very high quality also.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:31:19 PM EDT
Saigas really shouldnt be placed in the same area as a VEPR or Arsenal, you pay for quality and the VEPR's and Arsenal are more expensive. A Saiga is a sporter AK, an Arsenal is a true AK and are often times Milled, meaning longer life (despite what VEPR says) and better durability. VEPR's, while not Milled receivers use a high quality RPK type receiver, meaning the receiver is reinforced, not milled but definitely higher quality then any normal stamped receiver. VEPR's are great shooters, possibly the best out of the box AKs in terms of accuracy.

I have not shot a Saiga, but I imagine they are good rifles, however I highly doubt they are on the same level as a Arsenal or VEPR, or probably even a Vector built on a GT receiver.


my 55 cents.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:10:31 PM EDT
A Saiga is a great reciever but it comes in a sporter configuration(made at Izhevsk, the AK factory!). It is cut for a proprietary double stack mag. To use hi cap mags requires a feed ramp and the mandatory 5 or 6 US parts. The VEPR has that dang slant cut, but otherwise is an excellent RTR out of the box rifle. Arsenals come from a US branch of a Bulgarian military factory. All milspec parts built experianced AK people, think Cadillac. My 2 cents worth, all are better than any US made reciever.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:46:13 PM EDT
What about the Saigas modified by Chris as AK-USA? Are they any better than stock Saigas?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:04:26 PM EDT
i had a saiga,...very,.very good rifle for the price,..and very accurate,..even after i toyed with it to look like a little dragunov.

i wish i still had that rifle.

personally i can not stand that vepr reciver,...and would never consider owning one because of it.

Arsenal,.....well worth every sent you pay for the rifle,..in my opinion they are truely the best factory made AK's readily available to us here in the USA
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:06:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ligament:
What about the Saigas modified by Chris as AK-USA? Are they any better than stock Saigas?



Yes, some times some good deals pop up on the EE for used ones.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:27:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:27:37 PM EDT by 762hurts]

Originally Posted By 55MEGATON_NUKE:
Saigas really shouldnt be placed in the same area as a VEPR or Arsenal, you pay for quality and the VEPR's and Arsenal are more expensive. A Saiga is a sporter AK, an Arsenal is a true AK and are often times Milled, meaning longer life (despite what VEPR says) and better durability. VEPR's, while not Milled receivers use a high quality RPK type receiver, meaning the receiver is reinforced, not milled but definitely higher quality then any normal stamped receiver. VEPR's are great shooters, possibly the best out of the box AKs in terms of accuracy.

I have not shot a Saiga, but I imagine they are good rifles, however I highly doubt they are on the same level as a Arsenal or VEPR, or probably even a Vector built on a GT receiver.


my 55 cents.



Saigas are tops. In nuetered form. And if the Us ever allowed Izhmash to send in a real AK-100 anything....

like everyone here wouldn't be buying that Russian real deal.

You'd buy the Bulgarian arsenal instead? sure you would

people hate sporter saiga not seeing the inner beauty...lol
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:56:50 AM EDT
Saigas are wonderful AK variants. Take your dremel and convert it to pistol grip. I'm always amazed that some people want to suggest that a true Russian made AK variant is somehow substandard.

Is the Saiga receiver milled? Nope. There's a reason the Russians went away from milled receivers to stamped ones: less weight with no loss in function. Unless you plan on intentionally running over your AK with a tank, I don't see how the milled vs. stamped receiver is even an issue.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:06:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:12:13 AM EDT
When I came ovr from the AR side my first and still my favorite AK was VEPR K with a muzzle brake. It remains the most accurate of my 7.62x39 guns. After being around for a while I bought a Krebs converted Saiga, with no disrepect to Krebs (great workmanship) the gun simply ddint live up to my expectations and I took a $100 loss and sold it. My next 7.62x39 is a milled Arsenal SLR101 (pistol grip hi cap and scope rail) Great rifle and it has "the look" most as accurate as my VEPR. I have a couple of JNEWT built AK's I love as well but unless something special comes down the pike the VEPR is likley to stay my favorite.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:37:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Saigas are wonderful AK variants. Take your dremel and convert it to pistol grip. I'm always amazed that some people want to suggest that a true Russian made AK variant is somehow substandard.

Is the Saiga receiver milled? Nope. There's a reason the Russians went away from milled receivers to stamped ones: less weight with no loss in function. Unless you plan on intentionally running over your AK with a tank, I don't see how the milled vs. stamped receiver is even an issue.




Hold up, I wasnt suggesting that Saiga's are crap, but if your trying to say that their of the same quality as a VEPR or ARSENAL then you are smoking some good stuff hileIf a person is looking for a straight up plinker, then basically any AK will serve this purpose. Milled is a damn good way to go for your SHTF, WCS, EOTW rifle, its more durable and that does matter and is part of the issue.

Also, the Russians went with stamped because its easier and cheaper to make then a milled receiver. Yes, stamped receivers are still great, I know I own 2 AKs built on stamped receivers.
However, milled and RPK type receivers are just all around better.

Lastly, I was talking about out of the box, not modified. So a Saiga is in fact a sporter AK, what you do with it after that is different. I can buy a low cap WASR-10, swap out the receiver for an Armory 1.6mm, get newer/better barrel and parts, with better furniture and now have something other then a WASR-10 Low Cap.

Didnt mean to offend any Saiga owners hat
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:40:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 55MEGATON_NUKE:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Saigas are wonderful AK variants. Take your dremel and convert it to pistol grip. I'm always amazed that some people want to suggest that a true Russian made AK variant is somehow substandard.

Is the Saiga receiver milled? Nope. There's a reason the Russians went away from milled receivers to stamped ones: less weight with no loss in function. Unless you plan on intentionally running over your AK with a tank, I don't see how the milled vs. stamped receiver is even an issue.




Hold up, I wasnt suggesting that Saiga's are crap, but if your trying to say that their of the same quality as a VEPR or ARSENAL then you are smoking some good stuff
While I havent shot a Saiga I have nonetheless stripped a new one down and looked at it, it is definitely nice, but I was noewhere impressed as I was when looking at and firing botha VEPR and an Arsenal. I got a VEPR on the way and hopefully someday will have an Arsenal.
If a person is looking for a straight up plinker, then basically any AK will serve this purpose. Milled is a damn good way to go for your SHTF, WCS, EOTW rifle, its more durable and that does matter and is part of the issue.

Also, the Russians went with stamped because its easier and cheaper to make then a milled receiver. Yes, stamped receivers are still great, I know I own 2 AKs built on stamped receivers.
However, milled and RPK type receivers are just all around better.

Lastly, I was talking about out of the box, not modified. So a Saiga is in fact a sporter AK, what you do with it after that is different. I can buy a low cap WASR-10, swap out the receiver for an Armory 1.6mm, get newer/better barrel and parts, with better furniture and now have something other then a WASR-10 Low Cap.

Didnt mean to offend any Saiga owners , just wanted to say that they arent the top tier of AK's.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:27:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 55MEGATON_NUKE:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Saigas are wonderful AK variants. Take your dremel and convert it to pistol grip. I'm always amazed that some people want to suggest that a true Russian made AK variant is somehow substandard.

Is the Saiga receiver milled? Nope. There's a reason the Russians went away from milled receivers to stamped ones: less weight with no loss in function. Unless you plan on intentionally running over your AK with a tank, I don't see how the milled vs. stamped receiver is even an issue.




Hold up, I wasnt suggesting that Saiga's are crap, but if your trying to say that their of the same quality as a VEPR or ARSENAL then you are smoking some good stuff
While I havent shot a Saiga I have nonetheless stripped a new one down and looked at it, it is definitely nice, but I was noewhere impressed as I was when looking at and firing botha VEPR and an Arsenal. I got a VEPR on the way and hopefully someday will have an Arsenal.
If a person is looking for a straight up plinker, then basically any AK will serve this purpose. Milled is a damn good way to go for your SHTF, WCS, EOTW rifle, its more durable and that does matter and is part of the issue.

Also, the Russians went with stamped because its easier and cheaper to make then a milled receiver. Yes, stamped receivers are still great, I know I own 2 AKs built on stamped receivers.
However, milled and RPK type receivers are just all around better.

Lastly, I was talking about out of the box, not modified. So a Saiga is in fact a sporter AK, what you do with it after that is different. I can buy a low cap WASR-10, swap out the receiver for an Armory 1.6mm, get newer/better barrel and parts, with better furniture and now have something other then a WASR-10 Low Cap.

Didnt mean to offend any Saiga owners , just wanted to say that they arent the top tier of AK's.




Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

For goodness sakes, I know very, very well that a Saiga is a sporterized AK. I own one. If Ligament was only concerned with AK's of the same configuration, he wouldn't have asked about Saigas.

It just seems like lately the AK-47 side of Arfcom is suffering almost as much snobbery as the AR side.

I tire of discussions where someone says, "how do you like xyz AK." Reply, "it's ok, but my AK has an RPK receiver." Another replies, "oh yeah, well mine has a milled receiver, so yours must not be in the same league as mine."

Snobs have tried to exclude the Saiga by injecting the "out of the box" phrase. Let us consider a few things: A VEPR is going to set you back somewhere around $550 to $600. The Arsenal is going to set you back $650+.

I bought my Saiga for $225. Throw in the G2 trigger group, nice ergonomic grip, buttstock, and even the Robinson Armament mag followers and I'm still only out a total of about $350! So let's say that fit and function aren't enough, it needs to have the finish redone. Let's have the barrel threaded too. I am still easily under $450 for a quality AK that is going to function just as well as the other two rifles. The Saiga is looking awefully relevant in this discussion after all.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:45:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

For goodness sakes, I know very, very well that a Saiga is a sporterized AK. I own one. If Ligament was only concerned with AK's of the same configuration, he wouldn't have asked about Saigas.

It just seems like lately the AK-47 side of Arfcom is suffering almost as much snobbery as the AR side.

I tire of discussions where someone says, "how do you like xyz AK." Reply, "it's ok, but my AK has an RPK receiver." Another replies, "oh yeah, well mine has a milled receiver, so yours must not be in the same league as mine."

Snobs have tried to exclude the Saiga by injecting the "out of the box" phrase. Let us consider a few things: A VEPR is going to set you back somewhere around $550 to $600. The Arsenal is going to set you back $650+.

I bought my Saiga for $225. Throw in the G2 trigger group, nice ergonomic grip, buttstock, and even the Robinson Armament mag followers and I'm still only out a total of about $350! So let's say that fit and function aren't enough, it needs to have the finish redone. Let's have the barrel threaded too. I am still easily under $450 for a quality AK that is going to function just as well as the other two rifles. The Saiga is looking awefully relevant in this discussion after all.



Well put! Again the Saiga is built in THE AK plant Izhevsk. God alone knows how many typeI,II,III's,AKm and AK74 they built. Then add the 100 series,Saiga etc. I would bet it is over 30,000,000 rifles.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:57:31 AM EDT
I hear the good ol boys in Georgia love VEPRs.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:58:18 PM EDT


Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.hat
It just seems like lately the AK-47 side of Arfcom is suffering almost as much snobbery as the AR side.

I tire of discussions where someone says, "how do you like xyz AK." Reply, "it's ok, but my AK has an RPK receiver." Another replies, "oh yeah, well mine has a milled receiver, so yours must not be in the same league as mine."have
I bought my Saiga for $225. Throw in the G2 trigger group, nice ergonomic grip, buttstock, and even the Robinson Armament mag followers and I'm still only out a total of about $350! So let's say that fit and function aren't enough, it needs to have the finish redone. Let's have the barrel threaded too. I am still easily under $450 for a quality AK that is going to function just as well as the other two rifles. The Saiga is looking awefully relevant in this discussion after all.





Point taken. Wasnt trying to sound like a snob though. The question didnt mention how good is a modified Saiga, so I responded in kind. Had he asked "How does a WASR-10" compare I would have responded almost exactly the same way, despite the fact I own a WASR-10. Im in the process of modifying and refinishing the rifle, and the end product will be one nice AK, but as it is out of the box its nothing great, in fact a tad crappy.
Its like someone asking how is a Century built FAL vs. a DSA FAL. Well without modification, the answer is obvious.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 1:12:25 PM EDT
A lot of this debate depends on one's willingness to apply elbow grease. I'm mechanically challenged and it was an act of faith when I did my conversion. Furtunately, AK's were designed to be idiot-proof and even I was able to pull it off.

However, for those who'd rather not spend the time to dremel out rivets and bargain shop for parts, you certainly won't go wrong with either the Vepr or the Arsenal.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 1:26:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
A lot of this debate depends on one's willingness to apply elbow grease. I'm mechanically challenged and it was an act of faith when I did my conversion. Furtunately, AK's were designed to be idiot-proof and even I was able to pull it off.

However, for those who'd rather not spend the time to dremel out rivets and bargain shop for parts, you certainly won't go wrong with either the Vepr or the Arsenal.



Now the above is well said.

I say VEPR is best out of box. It's been shown, if not proven via testimony.
However. Saiga AK-103 7.62x39 converted AK-USA VS. Vepr K 7.62x39
Would love to see that shoot-off.

not .223, or 5.45, or .308......

.....7.62x39
Top Top