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Posted: 1/10/2006 5:32:31 PM EDT
My buddy was saying the new Saiga line includes the Tiger rifle that used to be imported during 90s. Is this true?? I can't wait! Is Russian the only place where these rifles are made? Not Yugo, etc?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:49:11 PM EDT
NO.

They are NOT.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:06:53 PM EDT
So far, it seems they haven't even been able to import Saigas.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:57:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike_f:
So far, it seems they haven't even been able to import Saigas.



Funny, I got a call today saying they were clear of the bonded warehouse and on their way to us. Our order would be processed and in our hands the week of the 23rd.

But no, because the SVD/Tiger is a military weapon they are not importable.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:26:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PvtPyle:

Originally Posted By mike_f:
So far, it seems they haven't even been able to import Saigas.



Funny, I got a call today saying they were clear of the bonded warehouse and on their way to us. Our order would be processed and in our hands the week of the 23rd.

But no, because the SVD/Tiger is a military weapon they are not importable.



Great to see you here PvtPyle.

To be fair, the old list of importable firearms from Russia did not include the Tiger. The terms on what is and is not importable was in renegotiated, but the results of that has not made the rounds, far as I know.

So, color me surprised, and gee, looks like I need to put some cash aside.

So what is the barrel length on the incomming Tigers?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:27:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By PvtPyle:

Originally Posted By mike_f:
So far, it seems they haven't even been able to import Saigas.



Funny, I got a call today saying they were clear of the bonded warehouse and on their way to us. Our order would be processed and in our hands the week of the 23rd.

But no, because the SVD/Tiger is a military weapon they are not importable.



Great to see you here PvtPyle.

To be fair, the old list of importable firearms from Russia did not include the Tiger. The terms on what is and is not importable was in renegotiated, but the results of that has not made the rounds, far as I know.

So, color me surprised, and gee, looks like I need to put some cash aside.

So what is the barrel length on the incomming Tigers?



Possible, but you know if they were importing Tigers, they would be advertising the shit out of them.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:30:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PvtPyle:Funny, I got a call today saying they were clear of the bonded warehouse and on their way to us. Our order would be processed and in our hands the week of the 23rd.But no, because the SVD/Tiger is a military weapon they are not importable.


Are you the same PvtPyle with all the RPG's? If so lets start a RPG thread! Soryy for jacking this thread.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:40:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:57:50 AM EDT by Ekie]
What firearms that are imported from Russia is spelled out in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR). Specifically 27 CFR 447.52. The .gov is required to publish regulations in the Federal Register. 27 CFR 447.52 is updated every April Fools day (no joke). I found the last one from 01 April 2005, and the list is the same, no Tigr. So I called the ATF Import Branch, and was informed by Erica Reid that it had been updated since April Fools day. She is supposed to fax me the new one.

Couple of years ago I spoke to a lawyer whom also imports firearms from Russia, who had a firearm placed on the orignial list back in 1996. He saw the new list in negotiations, and that it started with something like 125 firearms and was down to 100 or so, but said it did not contain any cool stuff like the SVT-40, SVD, or the Tigr mostly 22LR's and the like. So I lost interest, and this is the first time I have dug into the subject since then.

BTW, there is also a policy change (was not strictly prohibited by regulation) where by former US PROPERTY war implements (ie Garand, M1911A1, M1 Carbine) where to again be allowed to be imported. This is big news, but have not heard a peep about it other then the ATF letter indicating the change in policy.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:12:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:57:20 AM EDT by Ekie]
Got a list. There has been 68 firearms added to the old list, or "Additions to Annex A". The problem is that there are not any model names other then Vepr and Saiga. So don't see the Tigr listed by name. Instead there are a bunch of rifles listed as semiauto and a model name, for example:

58. TOZ 99 semiauto

Will type out all the semiautos, and then when can google them, give me a bit.......
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:23:20 AM EDT
22. MTs 18-3M Semiauto rifle
23. MTs 125 Semiauto rifle
24. MTs 126 Semiauto rifle
25. MTs 127 Semiauto rifle
26. Berkut-2 Semiauto rifle
27. Berkut-2M1 Semiauto rifle
28. Berkut-3 Semiauto rifle
29. Berkut-2-1 Semiauto rifle
30. Berkut-2M2 Semiauto rifle
31. Berkut-3-1 Semiauto rifle
33. MTs 20-07 Semiauto rifle
40. Saiga Semiauto
41. Saiga-M Semiauto
42. Saiga-308 Semiauto
Saiga-308-1
Saiga-308-2
43. Saiga-9
44. Korshun Semiauto
50. Vepr Semiauto
51. Vepr-Super Semiauto
52. Vepr-Pioner Semiauto
53. Vepr-Safari Semiauto
54. TOZ 109 Semiauto
55. KO 44-1 Semiauto
57. KO 44 Semiauto
58. TOZ 99 Semiauto
59. TOZ 99-01 Semiauto
65. TOZ 122 Semiauto
65. TOZ 125 Semiauto

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:30:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:37:46 AM EDT by Ekie]
I don't see any SVD types in there, nor any semiauto in 7.62x54R.

ETA

OK, here are two 7.62x54 semiautos, but they are made by Tula:

27. Berkut-2M1 Semiauto rifle

www.ginklai.net/galerija/2483/berkut_2m1_aimpoint_.html

30. Berkut-2M2 Semiauto rifle
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:19:56 AM EDT
They actually clarified the Saiga and Vepr model names so that Saiga/Vepr models that all the sporting models are importable.. Before some were not, even though they were hunting models.

It also clarifies that the Military configuration versions of the Saiga/Vepr (Saiga M3, Saiga MK, etc, Vepr 1B, 1V, etc) are not importable.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:24:48 AM EDT
I dont know why, but for some reason the BATF does not like the Tiger/SVD.. I know several importers have tried to import them from 3rd countries; Canada, E.Europe, etc.. But none have been allowed.

I think the idea is that the trigger group of the SVD/Tiger is too close to a full auto or some deal.

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:46:10 PM EDT

Hello Ekie, long time no see!

:-)

Any Russian handguns on that list? I don't see why we cannot get their service pistols--just makes no sense to me as pistols come in from all sorts of other places.

GR
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:53:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grayrider:
Hello Ekie, long time no see!

:-)

Any Russian handguns on that list? I don't see why we cannot get their service pistols--just makes no sense to me as pistols come in from all sorts of other places.

GR



Hey there. Sure, here are the new approved pistols:

1. MTs 440 Pistol
2. MTs 57-1 Pistol
3. MTs 59-1 Pistol
4. MTs 1-5 Pistol
5. TOZ-35M Starter Pistol
6. Biathlon-7K Pistol
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:56:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:
They actually clarified the Saiga and Vepr model names so that Saiga/Vepr models that all the sporting models are importable.. Before some were not, even though they were hunting models.

It also clarifies that the Military configuration versions of the Saiga/Vepr (Saiga M3, Saiga MK, etc, Vepr 1B, 1V, etc) are not importable.



I am sure Alex had something to do with the different Vepr's being added to the list.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 12:56:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 12:57:00 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By Stottman:
I dont know why, but for some reason the BATF does not like the Tiger/SVD.. I know several importers have tried to import them from 3rd countries; Canada, E.Europe, etc.. But none have been allowed.

I think the idea is that the trigger group of the SVD/Tiger is too close to a full auto or some deal.




I bet the same reason they did not make the list is the same reason we want one.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:02:40 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:10:43 PM EDT
Oh God I hope there is some truth to this.

if so a few of my rifles are on the way to the EE.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 1:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motorcityman:

Originally Posted By PvtPyle:Funny, I got a call today saying they were clear of the bonded warehouse and on their way to us. Our order would be processed and in our hands the week of the 23rd.But no, because the SVD/Tiger is a military weapon they are not importable.


Are you the same PvtPyle with all the RPG's? If so lets start a RPG thread! Soryy for jacking this thread.



Yeah, thats me. I am still missing an RPG-22 though.... Incase anyone knows where to find one.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:27:13 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info Ekie.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:38:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Thanks for all the info Ekie.



Sure, but was a wasted effort. For some stuiped reason I thought Pyle said he had Tigrs comming, so that is why I did all the work just to find out what we all knew already.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:31:20 PM EDT
I KNOW WHY they dont want any SVD types imported !!!!!!

Its because they are afraid somebody will shoot staight into Tom Berengers scope and knock his eye out with one in the soon to be released "Sniper 7"..........
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:22:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:30:34 PM EDT by keller]
It will be interesting to see if any of the Saiga M with T-hole stocks get imported. I doubt it. It would also be nice to see if they import the quick detach buttstocks (ie std 74m rear trunion). Anyone know if ammo is going to be imported for the 9mm version? And always good to see Mike and James posting. IM sent James about my future order. ~Keller/Ghtomrk/Akkid
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:25:20 PM EDT
Regarding the Tigers, several years ago I looked at bringing some in from Canada. I found a dealer in Montreal that had short or long barrel version in .308 or 9mm for $700US w/ scope/extra mags, and all factory accessories. Too bad as I too would really like one of these.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:37:51 PM EDT
The SVD would be a HUGE score. To add to the stupidity, I am trying to get a KPV-2 (dual barreld 14.5 AA gun on a towed trailer) imported from the Czech republic right now. It looks like it will go, no bad vibe or negative response yet from ATF or State. But if I send up a form 6 for SVDs, from any country they get nixed right away. Tried Canada, UK, Germany all with no luck.

As for the Saiga with the odd butt sotcks, they list a few of them with three butt stocks. And the pictures on RAAC's web site show the receivers with the M series rear trunion. If, IF they do have them, we are going to build some really cool stuff!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:18:24 PM EDT
The thumbhole stocked Saiga is the Saiga M1. If one goes by the list, they are non-importable.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:52:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762hurts:
NO.

They are NOT.



Why???
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:15:20 AM EDT
How about a sporter type modified rifle based on Tigr/SVD action, so that way when it's imported stateside, we can modify it like we modified SAIGA rifles.

Are any of those possible conversion candidates listed on the new list? Hopefully they do not cut off the back of receiver something stupid like that to prevent a grip conversion. We are only asking for thumbhole stocked hunting rifle with 10rd max capacity, sheesh.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:26:32 AM EDT
Here is the deal, the Tigr did not make the list in the original agreement back in 1996. The list is now 10 years old and has only been updated once. That update came under the most favorable circumstances possible, that being a Republican Congress and President. So in short, not on the list, and not going to be, and does not matter why the Tigr is not on it, so "forget about it".
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:48:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beyond_Visual_Range:
How about a sporter type modified rifle based on Tigr/SVD action, so that way when it's imported stateside, we can modify it like we modified SAIGA rifles.

Are any of those possible conversion candidates listed on the new list? Hopefully they do not cut off the back of receiver something stupid like that to prevent a grip conversion. We are only asking for thumbhole stocked hunting rifle with 10rd max capacity, sheesh.



Even a modified version would have to be approved and added to the list.

The new versions are even worse then the originals... They are straight up hunter versions.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:20:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Beyond_Visual_Range:
How about a sporter type modified rifle based on Tigr/SVD action, so that way when it's imported stateside, we can modify it like we modified SAIGA rifles.

Are any of those possible conversion candidates listed on the new list? Hopefully they do not cut off the back of receiver something stupid like that to prevent a grip conversion. We are only asking for thumbhole stocked hunting rifle with 10rd max capacity, sheesh.



Even a modified version would have to be approved and added to the list.

The new versions are even worse then the originals... They are straight up hunter versions.




So if they're straight up hunter versions, why aren't they importable then? That's the whole premise about importing "sporty non-assault" firearms.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 11:21:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beyond_Visual_Range:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Beyond_Visual_Range:
How about a sporter type modified rifle based on Tigr/SVD action, so that way when it's imported stateside, we can modify it like we modified SAIGA rifles.

Are any of those possible conversion candidates listed on the new list? Hopefully they do not cut off the back of receiver something stupid like that to prevent a grip conversion. We are only asking for thumbhole stocked hunting rifle with 10rd max capacity, sheesh.



Even a modified version would have to be approved and added to the list.

The new versions are even worse then the originals... They are straight up hunter versions.




So if they're straight up hunter versions, why aren't they importable then? That's the whole premise about importing "sporty non-assault" firearms.



No, the straight up hunter versions are the Saiga and Vepr models.
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