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Posted: 1/4/2006 1:29:06 PM EDT
Read the latest Shotgun News. It was a piece on Romanian AK's. Talked about the Romy military AK's being "almost" identical to the current WASR's. They went on to say that one distinguishable feature of "ALL" AKM's are the two indentations on either side of the receiver...aiding in magazine placement into the receiver. Funny thing though...the WASR they had pictured rather largly lacked the two receiver indentations.

So........are the two indentations necessary or rather purposely omitted to cut costs for the export models??

I have a SAR1 and have handled the WASR many times...thought of buying one. Seems to me that the WASR is of poorer quality, fit and finish, and less desirable than the SAR1 despite the lack of muzzle threads and bayo lug...
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:31:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 1:31:41 PM EDT by MauserMark]

Originally Posted By govm4:

I have a SAR1 and have handled the WASR many times...thought of buying one. Seems to me that the WASR is of poorer quality, fit and finish, and less desirable than the SAR1 despite the lack of muzzle threads and bayo lug...



that's about right.

WASRs are still probably the most bought and sold AK (in america) I would think. Every fun show I've ever been too is flooded with WASRs going in and out. They're the poor man's AK. But hey with a little work if necessary they'll go bang every time.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:40:39 PM EDT
The article also said that Romanians were some of the most highly regarded AK's in the world and surpassed only by East German models, in the author's opinion.
The impression I get on most boards is that the Romanians are looked down on as being inferior to most others, but I think Peter Kokalis is pretty well versed on military small arms.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 1:44:42 PM EDT
I think the reason a lot of people look down on Romy AK's is because they are inexpensive. There's A LOT of gear snobs on these boards and if something is cheap, it's a POS to them. I thinik these types of people gave Romys an undeserved mediocre rep.

Look at a Romy in person....it's excellent!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:44:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 2:46:39 PM EDT by thedukeryan]
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:58:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:05:14 PM EDT
Peter Kokalis has become the master of the obvious and a spokesman for SGN ad clients.....any number of us could have written a better article than that one
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:48:14 PM EDT
Maybe OT but I have to know, what did "Pete" have to say about the Century CETME?

I have a Century Cetme, after several "tweaks" I have gotten it to run well, accuracy is pretty good, considering the rudimentary sites.

The FA bolt carrier modified by the folks at Century needed some inspection and polishing, the trigger pack required "cleaning up". The receiver internals were parkerized .

Some "Flitz" was applied to internals of receiver, worked back and forth with the old bolt carrier until it felt pretty smoothe. (pop in an old John Wayne flick, grab a Yeungling or 2 or 3 and get down to business).

Clean everything(not the stock, sheese!) up with some brake cleaner, apply a liberal coat of lube, (careful with regards to the rollers). and reassemble.

Take out, load up with some mil spec 7.62x51 (don't be tempted to use that commercial .308 deer ammo that Wally World sells). And run her.

Post the results.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:49:43 PM EDT
What exactly is it that makes the Romanians inferior to the other eastern bloc AK's? Is it just finish or is the metalurgy inferior or what?
I would think in some respects they must be better than some of the others being that they have chrome bores and most are in nearly unfired condition from what I have seen in the kits sold recently.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:19:08 PM EDT
I have three Romanian AK's. They go bang every time the trigger is pulled and did not cost me an arm and a leg. I love them. Heck..........The accuracy isn't bad either. I would rather have a Romy than any AR-15!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:40:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 6:41:52 PM EDT by BulletBait]

Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
What exactly is it that makes the Romanians inferior to the other eastern bloc AK's? Is it just finish or is the metalurgy inferior or what?
I would think in some respects they must be better than some of the others being that they have chrome bores and most are in nearly unfired condition from what I have seen in the kits sold recently.


The finish mainly.
The Romanians just hogged out the metal in one or two passes of the cutter (often poorly re-sharpened and/or dull) to the spec depth instead of hogging it out down to about .002-.005 thousandths shy of the specs and then doing the final pass on the metal to clean it up.

How the Romanians did it is quick, dirty and cheap. It works just fine, but it's ugly as sin.

Followed by a lot of them have canted FSB's and GB's, which shows poor QC.

On the plus side they seem to have done one of the best jobs in crome lining the bores.
Even in the well used RPK kits, crome flaking is very rare, unlike the Poles

ETA: Pete is becoming a shill IMO.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:52:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 7:53:17 PM EDT by infantryman]
I'm and Ar guy who is looking to buy an AK. The WASR's look like shit. I have read that an SAR-1 is good gun. what would be a reasonable price for a new one? If nothing else I'll just order a Vector. I've been told they are pretty good.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:08:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:03:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 9:05:15 PM EDT by tapeo1]

Originally Posted By Templar:
In fact, the Romanians were always the "poor cousins" in the Warsaw Pact and there AK's weren't nearly as well regarded as the Russian, Polish, DDR, Bulgarian, or Hungarian AK's. Alot of people (myself included) will put the Chinese rifles ahead of the Romanian.



Techincally, Romania wasn't a member of the Warsaw pact and Ceausescu wouldn't allow Warsaw Pact training exercises on Romanian territory. BTW, Aside from more machining marks, is there any data to support the inferior quality of steel or anything else used in the Romanian rifles compared to other country's AKs? I've seen Polish AKs with chrome flaking off inside the barrels but have never seen this on Romanian AKs... I am speaking about "G" rifles and not WASRs.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:30:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 10:41:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 10:43:08 PM EDT by BulletBait]

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
The finish mainly.
The Romanians just hogged out the metal in one or two passes of the cutter (often poorly re-sharpened and/or dull) to the spec depth instead of hogging it out down to about .002-.005 thousandths shy of the specs and then doing the final pass on the metal to clean it up.

How the Romanians did it is quick, dirty and cheap. It works just fine, but it's ugly as sin.

Followed by a lot of them have canted FSB's and GB's, which shows poor QC.

On the plus side they seem to have done one of the best jobs in crome lining the bores.
Even in the well used RPK kits, crome flaking is very rare, unlike the Poles

ETA: Pete is becoming a shill IMO.



Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By tapeo1:

Originally Posted By Templar:
In fact, the Romanians were always the "poor cousins" in the Warsaw Pact and there AK's weren't nearly as well regarded as the Russian, Polish, DDR, Bulgarian, or Hungarian AK's. Alot of people (myself included) will put the Chinese rifles ahead of the Romanian.



Techincally, Romania wasn't a member of the Warsaw pact and Ceausescu wouldn't allow Warsaw Pact training exercises on Romanian territory. BTW, Aside from more machining marks, is there any data to support the inferior quality of steel or anything else used in the Romanian rifles compared to other country's AKs? I've seen Polish AKs with chrome flaking off inside the barrels but have never seen this on Romanian AKs... I am speaking about "G" rifles and not WASRs.



Romania was a member of the Warsaw Pact. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact#Members. That doesn't mean that Ceausescu wasn't on the best of terms with the Soviets.

If you go back and read my last post, I stated that the kits coming in from rifles that had been built years ago, prior to the break up of the Warsaw Pact, are from better/higher quality rifles than what they are shipping out now.

The Indians have had problems with soft bolt carriers, K-Var had a major problem with them shipping un heat treated bolt carriers and gas pistons that weren't hard chromed.


Originally posted by Templar:
The Indian army has had ALOT of issues with Romanian AKM's that they purchased within the last 8 or 10 years or so. The bolt carriers were not properly heat treated and they've had some other issues as well.

The SAR-1's were decent rifles by and large.

The kits coming in I think are actually better parts than rifles made post-Pact break up. There used to be 3 armories in Romania; Romtechia, Ratmil, and Cugir. With the end of the Cold War and post 89 Revolution, times got very hard and two of the armories shut down. The technicians and gunsmiths who knew what they were doing left.

Take a look at the early Romanian imports like the WUM I and II, they were much higher quality than the current WASR-10's.

The remaining armory hired a bunch of people who could be had at low wages and quality control went way, way down.

The last batch of bolt carriers K-Var got from them weren't heat treated either and the gas pistons weren't hard chromed. It's doubtful if K-Var is even going to keep dealing with them.

All this was not intended to turn into a bash the Romanians post. They did turn out some really decent weapons, but when you compare them to the other Eastern Bloc countries, they fall a little short.

There have been more than a couple posts from guys who pulled a tour in the former Yugoslavia about how the Yugo and Bulgarian rifles were the most highly prized, while the Romanian rifles weren't. Yeah, it's annecdotal, but it's what people who were using them over there think.

Anyway, I think it's a real shame that Kokalis' writings have been reduced to the level they are now.




WOW

Got to mark this down in my calender.

We All AGREE
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