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Posted: 12/27/2005 12:12:51 PM EDT
The local gun store here had the AK-74 stamped receiver with two 30 round mags for 440.10 plus sales tax made by Arsenal Arms. I passed on the deal. Should I regret it? It did not come with bayonet lug or flash supressor and had plain black furniture.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 12:55:21 PM EDT by redfisher]
If it is this one.....ARSENAL SLR-105




Its a beauty and sells for around $675.........when you can find them...


edit to add:

SLR 105 Ban version

Link Posted: 12/27/2005 12:26:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 12:27:37 PM EDT by MauserMark]
That should be the SLR105. That's a pretty good deal. It's not that hard to replace the front sight block so you can have a threaded front sight to install the 74 brake.

I'd probably buy it if I found one at that price. And in all honesty the muzzle break serves little if any purpose on a semi auto rifle, other than making it louder to those next to you.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:18:14 PM EDT
This is the one without a muzzle/break flash supressor. I already regret not buying it, it seems. However, maybe I should poke around until I can actually find one that is milled rather than stamped. I think the reason why it was so cheap is because they are discontinued according to the Arsenal website.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:54:02 PM EDT
The reason it's $440, it's the ban model. Without the threaded FSB and bayonet lug.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:16:33 PM EDT
Never seen a muzzle break.......
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:23:12 PM EDT
It's still worth it in my opinion, not like it will be any less lethal
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:34:38 PM EDT
Anyone else?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:56:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 8:57:11 PM EDT by clange]
I'd personally want the threaded FSB, but like the others said, you can add it later.

The price is good.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:31:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
And in all honesty the muzzle break serves little if any purpose on a semi auto rifle, other than making it louder to those next to you.



Sorry but the AK-74 muzzle brake is extremely effective on a semi-auto. It makes a big difference and does not make it louder. In fact, the large enclosed hollow chamber actually has a silencing effect making it significantly quieter than one without. It also doesn't have the sideways blast effect of other brakes.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:20:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
And in all honesty the muzzle break serves little if any purpose on a semi auto rifle, other than making it louder to those next to you.



Sorry but the AK-74 muzzle brake is extremely effective on a semi-auto. It makes a big difference and does not make it louder. In fact, the large enclosed hollow chamber actually has a silencing effect making it significantly quieter than one without. It also doesn't have the sideways blast effect of other brakes.



+1

I had always read how little difference in recoil there was between the brake-less -74's and the non-neutered versions, but it's not true. My SLR-105 without brake recoils significantly more than my Bulgarian -74.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:01:46 AM EDT
Where would one get the new attachments to add a flash supressor/muzzle break ? Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:56:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
And in all honesty the muzzle break serves little if any purpose on a semi auto rifle, other than making it louder to those next to you.



Sorry but the AK-74 muzzle brake is extremely effective on a semi-auto.



Not to mention it being synonymous with the AK 74
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:16:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
And in all honesty the muzzle break serves little if any purpose on a semi auto rifle, other than making it louder to those next to you.



Sorry but the AK-74 muzzle brake is extremely effective on a semi-auto. It makes a big difference and does not make it louder. In fact, the large enclosed hollow chamber actually has a silencing effect making it significantly quieter than one without. It also doesn't have the sideways blast effect of other brakes.


If it made it quieter the BATF would consider it a suppressor. And yes, it does have sideways sound problems according to the russians themselves.

I love the brake though, its excellent at reducing muzzle climb.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:04:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 3:08:23 PM EDT by rickinvegas]

Originally Posted By clange:
If it made it quieter the BATF would consider it a suppressor.



Fine. Get a decible meter and check for yourself. It does lessen the noise. BTW, the law doesn't classify something as a "suppressor" just because it makes it "quieter". Adding a longer barrel can do that.


And yes, it does have sideways sound problems according to the russians themselves


Of course it directs sound sideways......and backwards. Hence the fact that it is a "brake". I used the word "Blast" a la a Y-Comp on an AR. I didn't say sound.

The '74 brake is an expansion chamber. It dissipates the pressure through the ports ON TOP (downward force) and then bleeds a certain amount forward and then backward (through another set of ports) via the angled paddles. The rest is expelled directly forward via the muzzle. It's all very measured and proportional. Other brake/compensator designs expel 100% of the gasses out the side or top prior to the bullet leaving the barrel. They suck and are annoying but the '74 brake is neither.

And yes, I agree with redfisher. An AK-74 without a brake is nothing more than a ...........................SAR-2
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:18:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By clange:
If it made it quieter the BATF would consider it a suppressor.



Fine. Get a decible meter and check for yourself. It does lessen the noise. BTW, the law doesn't classify something as a "suppressor" just because it makes it "quieter". Adding a longer barrel can do that.


And yes, it does have sideways sound problems according to the russians themselves


Of course it directs sound sideways......and backwards. Hence the fact that it is a "brake". I used the word "Blast" a la a Y-Comp on an AR. I didn't say sound.

The '74 brake is an expansion chamber. It dissipates the pressure through the ports ON TOP (downward force) and then bleeds a certain amount forward and then backward (through another set of ports) via the angled paddles. The rest is expelled directly forward via the muzzle. It's all very measured and proportional. Other brake/compensator designs expel 100% of the gasses out the side or top prior to the bullet leaving the barrel. They suck and are annoying but the '74 brake is neither.

And yes, I agree with redfisher. An AK-74 without a brake is nothing more than a ...........................SAR-2


Adding a longer barrel isnt the same as screwing something onto a threaded muzzle.

I dont know what you mean by blast, so I'll leave that alone. Its louder to the shooter and those beside him, which is what someone else was saying.

And I know how it works, expansion chamber, offset ports, etc, which is why I said its very good at reducing muzzle climb, not recoil. I didnt notice much of a change at all in felt recoil, which seems to go along with what you said about it not being a traditional brake.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:49:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clange:
I dont know what you mean by blast, so I'll leave that alone



Stand next to a guy shooting an AR with a Y-Comp and you'll find out fast!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 5:18:04 PM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By rageofangels:
This is the one without a muzzle/break flash supressor. I already regret not buying it, it seems. However, maybe I should poke around until I can actually find one that is milled rather than stamped. I think the reason why it was so cheap is because they are discontinued according to the Arsenal website.




Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver. You would have to get the milled .223 version. Mags will be expensive.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:19:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By clange:
I dont know what you mean by blast, so I'll leave that alone



Stand next to a guy shooting an AR with a Y-Comp and you'll find out fast!



haha yeah you sure will. Back during the ban my AR had a mini-y on it... that thing would clear the two benches on each side of me in no time
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:23:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 5:25:58 PM EDT by JOHNO]
This one started its life as an SLR105 ban version,I have no regrets and would buy another one tomorrow if I find one.

edited to add;When Arsenal discontinues a model,it usually goes up in price.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:19:50 PM EDT
sorry to disturb the thread but is there any way I can dislodge my muzzle brake from Bulgy 74 that got gunked up with powder/gas residue of Barnauls, not cleaned for about 3 months?

I tried turning the muzzle brake with a wrench and ended up bending the cleaning rod a bit.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:25:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:28:02 PM EDT
Don't forget to depress the plunger either!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:43:32 PM EDT
Still looking for a place to buy an add on threaded barrel and muzzle break/flash supressor. ;)
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:53:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rageofangels:
Still looking for a place to buy an add on threaded barrel and muzzle break/flash supressor. ;)

On a 74,the threads are on the FSB.You'll need a Bulgarian 74 threaded FSB and a 24mm Brake.Try to find the FSB first,they tend to be a little harder to find than the Brake.Check with Global Trades,K-Var,AA-OK.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:31:33 PM EDT
http://www.arsenalinc.com/milled.htm

There is a whole list of milled AKs in 7.62, 5.56 and 5.45.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:14:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rageofangels:
http://www.arsenalinc.com/milled.htm

There is a whole list of milled AKs in 7.62, 5.56 and 5.45.



The title of your thread is Arsenal Arms AK-74 Ban-Style

AK-74 is a 5.45x39 caliber. The 5.45x39 milled rifle is discontinued and I have never seen or heard of anyone having one. That is why I said, "Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver." It was a limited edition. As far as I know, actual AK-74's were all stamped.

The 7.62 and 5.56 are not AK-74's. AK-74 is not a generic term for all AK's type rifles, such as shotgun is no matter what the gauge of shotgun.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:08:08 AM EDT
I got my no ban Arsenal from TGS. You did good passing on the $400+ SLR-105...they have them for $395.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:37:36 AM EDT



Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver. You would have to get the milled .223 version. Mags will be expensive.

AK-74 is a 5.45x39 caliber. The 5.45x39 milled rifle is discontinued and I have never seen or heard of anyone having one. That is why I said, "Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver." It was a limited edition. As far as I know, actual AK-74's were all stamped.

The 7.62 and 5.56 are not AK-74's. AK-74 is not a generic term for all AK's type rifles, such as shotgun is no matter what the gauge of shotgun.



So they do make, them, as I said. ;) I know that the AK-74 is specific to the caliber. If you want to talk about other kinds of rifles in the AK varient, you were the first to mention finding them in .223.

Either way, you are totally right in the fact that I haven't still come into contact with a milled one.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:15:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 2:08:30 PM EDT by Mak]

Originally Posted By rageofangels:



Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver. You would have to get the milled .223 version. Mags will be expensive.

AK-74 is a 5.45x39 caliber. The 5.45x39 milled rifle is discontinued and I have never seen or heard of anyone having one. That is why I said, "Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver." It was a limited edition. As far as I know, actual AK-74's were all stamped.

The 7.62 and 5.56 are not AK-74's. AK-74 is not a generic term for all AK's type rifles, such as shotgun is no matter what the gauge of shotgun.



So they do make, them, as I said. ;) I know that the AK-74 is specific to the caliber. If you want to talk about other kinds of rifles in the AK varient, you were the first to mention finding them in .223.

Either way, you are totally right in the fact that I haven't still come into contact with a milled one.




The .223 was available in a milled version (was anyway, I don't know if they are still making them either currently, it was posted that they were stopping production) but it isn't an AK-74 but it would be a close substitute, whereas the 5.45x39 is not available. The 5.45x39 milled was a limited edition prototype single stack magazine thumbhole stock rifle and I am not even sure it was ever imported. Templar would be the person to answer that.

Like I mentioned, I have never heard of anyone ever owning one or having them. Arsenal often puts things on their website but that doesn't mean they were ever actually manufactured or imported to the United States. Some people have built the 74 kits on a milled receiver, but that is a custom built rifle.

The .223 is not actually an AK-74 but with some work it could be close. It would also be a good choice if you wanted readily available ammo. The downside would be cost of the rifle (they aren't cheap for a first AK type rifle, the mags are about 4 times the cost of regular AK-74 rifle mags (they aren't actually interchangable in a satisfactory way), parts are not as readily available as are parts for AK-74 rifles (due to the large numbers of AK-74 parts kits that were imported replacement for these are easier to get.)

Milled rifles are heavier, I owned a couple of Bulgarian milled rifles and sold them off and now own all stamped rifles.

The stamped Arsenal you passed on was a better deal than any other I have seen. The Arsenal I bought (ban type with rail) cost me $520.00 I think when tax was included (8.5%?). It is the most accurate of my 6 AK type rifles which includes 1 Norinco .223, 2 SAR-1's, 1 SAR-2 and a Bulgarian AK-74 build. The only drawback is the availability of ammo currently. 2005 is the only year I have seen a shortage of the 5.45x39 ammo.

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:07:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mak:

Originally Posted By rageofangels:



Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver. You would have to get the milled .223 version. Mags will be expensive.

AK-74 is a 5.45x39 caliber. The 5.45x39 milled rifle is discontinued and I have never seen or heard of anyone having one. That is why I said, "Good luck finding a milled one. They don't make the AK-74 on a milled receiver." It was a limited edition. As far as I know, actual AK-74's were all stamped.

The 7.62 and 5.56 are not AK-74's. AK-74 is not a generic term for all AK's type rifles, such as shotgun is no matter what the gauge of shotgun.



So they do make, them, as I said. ;) I know that the AK-74 is specific to the caliber. If you want to talk about other kinds of rifles in the AK varient, you were the first to mention finding them in .223.

Either way, you are totally right in the fact that I haven't still come into contact with a milled one. hr



The .223 was available in a milled version (was anyway, I don't know if they are still making them either currently, it was posted that they were stopping production) but it isn't an AK-74 but it would be a close substitute, whereas the 5.45x39 is not available. The 5.45x39 milled was a limited edition prototype single stack magazine thumbhole stock rifle and I am not even sure it was ever imported. Templar would be the person to answer that.

Like I mentioned, I have never heard of anyone ever owning one or having them. Arsenal often puts things on their website but that doesn't mean they were ever actually manufactured or imported to the United States. Some people have built the 74 kits on a milled receiver, but that is a custom built rifle.

The .223 is not actually an AK-74 but with some work it could be close. It would also be a good choice if you wanted readily available ammo. The downside would be cost of the rifle (they aren't cheap for a first AK type rifle, the mags are about 4 times the cost of regular AK-74 rifle mags (they aren't actually interchangable in a satisfactory way), parts are not as readily available as are parts for AK-74 rifles (due to the large numbers of AK-74 parts kits that were imported replacement for these are easier to get.)

Milled rifles are heavier, I owned a couple of Bulgarian milled rifles and sold them off and now own all stamped rifles.

The stamped Arsenal you passed on was a better deal than any other I have seen. The Arsenal I bought (ban type with rail) cost me $520.00 I think when tax was included (8.5%?). It is the most accurate of my 6 AK type rifles which includes 1 Norinco .223, 2 SAR-1's, 1 SAR-2 and a Bulgarian AK-74 build. The only drawback is the availability of ammo currently. 2005 is the only year I have seen a shortage of the 5.45x39 ammo.

i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/MakarovshooterinAZ/AK.jpg



Mak, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain things out in detail so that I can learn from this. Unlike several other forums, where discussions usually turn into pissing contests. I held an Arsenal AK-47 no-ban model today. Regular black furniture and threaded/flash supressor barrel and it was one of the milled ones. Do you have a preference as to why you sold off your milled rifles and kept the stamped ones? I'm still trying to figure out if I want an AR or an AK.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:19:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 4:20:19 PM EDT by Templar]
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:27:15 PM EDT
Damn,............I gotta get an Afghan War Rug!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:44:00 PM EDT


In true ARFcom you will eventually own both. hr


How true that is... how true that is. I don't own either... yet. But I'd really like to own both eventually. Planning on getting married in the relative near future puts a large damper on the gun fundage. Maybe I'll get a few as wedding presents.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:01:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 11:29:39 PM EDT by Mak]

Do you have a preference as to why you sold off your milled rifles and kept the stamped ones? I'm still trying to figure out if I want an AR or an AK.



I sold off the milled ones due to their weight and the fact that I could get more for them at the time than I paid for them. I could get more for them now, but I never sell a firearm unless I can make a profit.

For accuracy, I would say get an AR-15. No ban configuration available new for $750 or less. Ammo and mags are available always now. You can easily change the configuration.



If you just have to have an AK-47 or AK-74 type rifle, get the most you can reasonably afford.

If you won't be shooting any farther than 100 yards:

Go with a SAR-1(pay no more than $350.00 unless it has extras) over a WASR if you can find one. Check to make sure the FSB and gas block are not canted in either.

Go with a Chinese thumbhole stock rifle in 7.62x39 if you can find a decent one with a straight cut rear end on the receiver. You can then change out parts to put it in near original configuration. $350.00 or less is a good value. Can also be found in .223 for ammo availability, but you are going to pay for the mags which are rare.

If you can spend more, go with a milled Bulgarian such as the SLR-93 or SLR-95 or a Gordon Tech build if you can find any of the 3 at a gunshow for less than $500.00. I've seen them available for those prices within the last year, sometime even less. Just have to keep you eyes open. You may have to put new furniture on any of these.

If you have more money than you need, get an Arsenal no-ban 7.62x39. Very good quality. No work you will have to do.

If you don't mind not having availbility of ammo, get a stamped Arsenal AK-74 type rifle in 5.45x39 either ban or no-ban type. Mags are available and inexpensive. Rifles may become harder to get.

Buy a Polish Tantal kit and have it built into a rifle by one of the builders in Ohio.

On any AK type rifle you buy or have built, get the side-rail so you have it even if you don't need it now. You might want to have a scope mounted down the road. Chinese rifles probably don't have one unless you or previous owner install it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:53:08 PM EDT
Looks like I might be purchasing an AR in a handgun caliber after all. I'll be tied to Cincy for a while and a handgun carbine in 9mm looks like it will fit the job. However, if I find a good deal on an AK-74... I wont pass it up again.
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