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Posted: 12/18/2005 10:27:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 12:20:00 PM EDT by robpiat]
One is a refinish, other is a build







Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:36:13 PM EDT
5.45 pistols, how quaint
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:49:07 PM EDT
Man, what huge photos! They about choked my 21K dial-up.

When I e-mailed Ken about close-up photos, perhaps he just didn't have any sidefolder examples (which is what I asked him for.) I'm sure that this thread will come in handy, as I know of at least one gentleman who is giving Ken serious consideration. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:25:43 PM EDT
all of them were builds, I`m not one for taking pictures, sorry if theres no sidefolder pic, although I can say that I use a mill on my sidefolder builds, nice clean cuts in the proprer places, even the front slot on the receiver has the 6 degree radius in the corners like it calls for on the prints

ken
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 3:57:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
5.45 pistols, how quaint



Yeah.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:56:09 PM EDT
Is that an AAC sound suppressor on that second rifle? If not who built it?

Arbiter
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:51:28 PM EDT
That krink is a couple of rivets short of a load.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:58:51 PM EDT
That is weird...
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:20:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 7:21:44 PM EDT by SVT]

Originally Posted By eodinert:
That krink is a couple of rivets short of a load.



I called him on it once and he got a little upset...
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2005 7:23:03 PM EDT by roach46]
yeah thats right you were talking out your ass
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:25:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roach46:
yeah thats right you were talking out your ass



About a Krinkov needing to be riveted properly?



Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:27:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SVT:

Originally Posted By roach46:
yeah thats right you were talking out your ass



About a Krinkov needing to be riveted properly?





extra lightweight model?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:31:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By SVT:

Originally Posted By roach46:
yeah thats right you were talking out your ass



About a Krinkov needing to be riveted properly?





extra lightweight model?



Maybe. He doesnt think it needs to be done for some reason.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:33:12 PM EDT
The only one that is missing is the Left side rear trunnion rivet, correct?

Is there a reason to do it this way?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:46:58 PM EDT
I see all the "experts" are out tonight
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:52:32 PM EDT
full moon maybe? brings out all sorts.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:06:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roach46:
I see all the "experts" are out tonight



not an expert, I just play one on the internet
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:10:42 PM EDT
You know I have recommend GMG several times because I am pleased with Ken's work on my kits.

Ken,

They were asking a rational question. They were not asking what the tolerance was between the topcover and the receiver. It is missing a rivit that was left out on purpose or by mistake.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:31:31 PM EDT
there is no provision for the 3rd rivet, its not a safety issuse as some like to think
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:33:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By roach46:
I see all the "experts" are out tonight



not an expert, I just play one on the internethr



Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:39:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roach46:
there is no provision for the 3rd rivet, its not a safety issuse as some like to think



Do those trunnions only have 2 holes on the left side?

There is a guy over at gunco that shot a mag through a gun that had toothpicks in the rivet holes to prove a point.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:53:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By robpiat:

Originally Posted By roach46:
there is no provision for the 3rd rivet, its not a safety issuse as some like to think



Do those trunnions only have 2 holes on the left side?

There is a guy over at gunco that shot a mag through a gun that had toothpicks in the rivet holes to prove a point.



New, unused trunnions still need the third provision drilled on each side. You will note the unissued de-mil AKS-74U kits that K-VAR is selling has the 'third' rivet installed. Its there for a reason, or so the Soviet and Bulgarian military thought.

Its like this:

Lets say I get a new wheel put on my car. Its got 5 lug studs, but the installer only put 4 lug nuts on the wheel. Will I make it home without incident? Probably so. Should all 5 lug nuts have been installed? You bet.

You decide. Im leaving it at that.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:58:19 PM EDT
Why do the trunnions only have two holes drilled Originally?

Is it a manufacturing issue?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 3:18:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 3:23:06 AM EDT by dinkydow]

Originally Posted By eodinert:
That krink is a couple of rivets short of a load.



I must be missing somthing in the images....WTF?



Oh.....you are discussing the ........"need".......for the 3rd rivit on 5.45 krink builds.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 4:13:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 4:16:15 AM EDT by roach46]

Originally Posted By SVT:

Originally Posted By robpiat:

Originally Posted By roach46:
there is no provision for the 3rd rivet, its not a safety issuse as some like to think



Do those trunnions only have 2 holes on the left side?

There is a guy over at gunco that shot a mag through a gun that had toothpicks in the rivet holes to prove a point.



New, unused trunnions still need the third provision drilled on each side. You will note the unissued de-mil AKS-74U kits that K-VAR is selling has the 'third' rivet installed. Its there for a reason, or so the Soviet and Bulgarian military thought.

Its like this:

Lets say I get a new wheel put on my car. Its got 5 lug studs, but the installer only put 4 lug nuts on the wheel. Will I make it home without incident? Probably so. Should all 5 lug nuts have been installed? You bet.

You decide. Im leaving it at that. h.gif



"there for a reason" sure it is, to hold the 16 inch barrel, support a bayonet, and for general abuse the rifle will get, if you state some real facts other than what K-var is doing or what you did with you lug nuts, you trying to state something you personaly dont have any experience with, and are spouting off just "hear say" and what someoine else is doing, it would better if you started out your sentence with "in my opinion" and beside the krink you see in the pic has had almost 4,000 rounds bump fired through it as of last weekend
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 4:24:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By robpiat:

Originally Posted By roach46:
there is no provision for the 3rd rivet, its not a safety issuse as some like to think



Do those trunnions only have 2 holes on the left side?

There is a guy over at gunco that shot a mag through a gun that had toothpicks in the rivet holes to prove a point.




there called "investment cast" they skipped the 3rd hole for what ever reason, theres no provison inside the trunnion to crush the 3rd rivet even if you did drill a hole, and the dude on gunco did prove that point, there are no saftey issues without the thrid rivet,
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:27:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:

I'm sure that this thread will come in handy, as I know of at least one gentleman who is giving Ken serious consideration.





"gentleman", LOL.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:04:20 PM EDT
All I have to say is that Ken does top notch work, and he doesnt have his customers waiting monthgs on end for builds, because this is what he does! A lot of the other builders have to go and 9-5 jobs and then family and then builds....Plus you can have a top notch build for less than what alot some other builders charge. Shit the amount that some of them charge you must be getting a brick of ammo to go with your builds! If not why pay more?

Ant

BTW that other turd mentioned about that 3 rivet thing in the past and he still has no proof of why it was done that way, or how they even got that rivet in their or what type of rivet they use! Shit, btw he talks he must have done a huge amount of builds with those rivets done or he just saw a pic on the interenet one day and decided to pic on those that dont have theirs done.

Also lets see a pic of his Bulgy 74 with the 3 rivets done!?

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:01:18 AM EDT
May not be a saftey issue without the third rivet, but it sure looks like ass without it..
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:26:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bigant:

BTW that other turd mentioned about that 3 rivet thing in the past and he still has no proof of why it was done that way, or how they even got that rivet in their or what type of rivet they use! Shit, btw he talks he must have done a huge amount of builds with those rivets done or he just saw a pic on the interenet one day and decided to pic on those that dont have theirs done.

Also lets see a pic of his Bulgy 74 with the 3 rivets done!?




Obviously youre affiliated with Global so I wont honk your horn too much.

You want to see a picture of the 'magical' rivet?

Ill start a thread on it, just for you!
Im sure others will post pics with their magical rivets too.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:32:37 AM EDT
I am glad the majority of you will not be sending your kits to Global. That will make mine go faster. He did good work for me, in a timely and detailed oriented manner.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:36:51 AM EDT


You want to see a picture of the 'magical' rivet?

Ill start a thread on it, just for you!
Im sure others will post pics with their magical rivets too.

make sure you post the pics with the "investment cast" trunnion
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:04:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 2:07:28 PM EDT by m03]

Originally Posted By roach46:
there called "investment cast" they skipped the 3rd hole for what ever reason, theres no provison inside the trunnion to crush the 3rd rivet even if you did drill a hole, and the dude on gunco did prove that point, there are no saftey issues without the thrid rivet,



No, the holes are supposed to be drilled at install time.

Are you telling me that the Romanians only intend for you to install the two rivets at the bottom of the receiver, since there are no top rivet holes pre-drilled in their front trunnions?

Exhibit A:
www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16535&cat=324&page=1

There way not be any issues with it right now, but give it 5,000 rds. or so and see where it stands. At what point does the front rivet head shear off from the extra stress?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 2:15:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m03:

Originally Posted By roach46:
there called "investment cast" they skipped the 3rd hole for what ever reason, theres no provison inside the trunnion to crush the 3rd rivet even if you did drill a hole, and the dude on gunco did prove that point, there are no saftey issues without the thrid rivet,



No, the holes are supposed to be drilled at install time.

Are you telling me that the Romanians only intend for you to install the two rivets at the bottom of the receiver, since there are no top rivet holes pre-drilled in their front trunnions?

Exhibit A:
www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16535&cat=324&page=1
There way not be any issues with it right now, but give it 5,000 rds. or so and see where it stands. At what point does the front rivet head shear off from the extra stress?




go to the 1st page in the thread, the gun in question has about 4,000rds run through it already, no sign of failure
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 4:35:28 PM EDT
In case you miss this in the other thread, can you share with us your reference for a two rivet (per side) build being correct?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:32:48 PM EDT


The real thing has 3 rivets.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:01:48 PM EDT
Okay 3rd rivet! But Ken AKA Roach46 never said that it was wrong, he only said to show him proof about the safety of having just 2!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:18:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 6:19:56 AM EDT by eodinert]


Originally Posted By eodinert:
That krink is a couple of rivets short of a load.

Originally Posted By SVT:
I called him on it once and he got a little upset...

Originally Posted By roach46
yeah thats right you were talking out your ass



Interesting choice of words.



Originally Posted By roach46
I see all the "experts" are out tonight


Originally Posted By roach46
"there for a reason" sure it is, to hold the 16 inch barrel, support a bayonet, and for general abuse the rifle will get, if you state some real facts other than what K-var is doing or what you did with you lug nuts, you trying to state something you personaly dont have any experience with, and are spouting off just "hear say" and what someoine else is doing, it would better if you started out your sentence with "in my opinion" and beside the krink you see in the pic has had almost 4,000 rounds bump fired through it as of last weekend




This is not just about safety, it's about a correct build. Why don't you use screws to hold the trunnion in? Toothpics will work, right? Because it's not correct.

Try this on for size. Here is my OPINION.

You ASSUMED that it was not supposed to have a third rivet, because you couldn't figure it out by looking at it. You imply that you know the build to be correct, and that everyone else is ignorant. You have nothing to back up your claim that it's not supposed to be there, except 'it hasn't blown up yet'; it's safe'. You imply that everyone else is stupid and has no experience in this matter. I asked you nicely in both threads to support your postion that the rivet was optional, the silence was deafening.

So before YOU go spouting HEAR SAY that it's correct to leave rivets out, why don't you do some research (or share with us the research you've done that says it's correct)?



all of them were builds, I`m not one for taking pictures, sorry if theres no sidefolder pic, although I can say that I use a mill on my sidefolder builds, nice clean cuts in the proprer places, even the front slot on the receiver has the 6 degree radius in the corners like it calls for on the prints



Bust out those prints. Let's see what they say. Or else we might think you are 'talking out your ass.'

It looks like you do nice work. Understand that there are more than a few people here who know something about AKs. You might listen for a while before you start the name calling. They might be right.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:49:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 12:51:48 PM EDT by LUGERMAN]
I have 4 Krinks all built by AK-USA. ALL have three rivets on both sides, that's standard procedure when building a Krink Chris Butler says. He wouldn't build them any other way!!

Edited to say I rechecked mine and they do indeed have three rivets. Opps. I was originally thinking of the two rivets at the front trunnion. Forgot about the third one by the mag.well.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
I have 4 Krinks all built by AK-USA. ALL have two rivets on both sides, that's standard procedure when building a Krink Chris Butler says. He wouldn't build them any other way!!



thank you!!!

sholud let this thread go, everyone has his own opinion
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:57:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
I have 4 Krinks all built by AK-USA. ALL have two rivets on both sides, that's standard procedure when building a Krink Chris Butler says. He wouldn't build them any other way!!



Congrats. You have 4 Krinks that are all built incorrectly. I don't care who built them...if they don't have 3 rivets per side, then they're half-assed in atleast one way.

Who do you trust more with building your AK, Chris Butler or Mikhail Kalashnikov?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:59:07 AM EDT
It looks like you do nice work. Understand that there are more than a few people here who know something about AKs. You might listen for a while before you start the name calling. They might be right.


thanks for the complement, this was brought up on another board some time ago that they were "unsafe" and 2 other know builders were sued because of it, so again I will say and for the last time, CORRECT? NO!, SAFE? YES!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:00:06 AM EDT
In the m-92 posted on the first page, why didn't you fill the unused selector stop and cut a new one for the yugo selector?

Brick

New trunions that have rivet holes pre-drilled are done that way for the counter sunk rivets. This is illistrated in the kvar trunion pics posted earlier. The holes that need to be drilled are for regular flat back style rivets that are not intended to pull the receiver into the counter sink in the trunion. By drilling these after the swell necked rivets are installed you get a perfect hole through the receiver and trunion for the flat backed rivet.
Most AKM's have swell necks in the mag well area and flat back rivets in the barrel area. The 74 series went to back and font swell necks with the middle being the flat back and that is why you have to drill it yourself.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:55:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By roach46:
thanks for the complement, this was brought up on another board some time ago that they were "unsafe" and 2 other know builders were sued because of it



I was about to let this topic go, but I have to point out one thing.

This statement is purely fictional, nothing was ever said about anyone being sued over anything. What was said was Sellars and Newton use all three rivets in their builds. Nothing more, nothing less.

Feel free to quote me.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:11:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m03:

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
I have 4 Krinks all built by AK-USA. ALL have two rivets on both sides, that's standard procedure when building a Krink Chris Butler says. He wouldn't build them any other way!!



Congrats. You have 4 Krinks that are all built incorrectly. I don't care who built them...if they don't have 3 rivets per side, then they're half-assed in atleast one way.

Who do you trust more with building your AK, Chris Butler or Mikhail Kalashnikov?



Here's a Chris Butler krink from his web page. Looks OK to me.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:34:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SVT:

Originally Posted By roach46:
thanks for the complement, this was brought up on another board some time ago that they were "unsafe" and 2 other know builders were sued because of it



I was about to let this topic go, but I have to point out one thing.

This statement is purely fictional, nothing was ever said about anyone being sued over anything. What was said was Sellars and Newton use all three rivets in their builds. Nothing more, nothing less.

Feel free to quote me.



heres your words, quote, "Youre a gunsmith. If youre building these things without all the rivets, youre setting yourself up for a big liability.

Ask Josh Newton, or Troy Sellars."

I copied and paste so there was no mistake, heres the thread
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=120492

you guys wanna beat this to death have at it, I`m done with this thread
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:42:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By roach46:

Originally Posted By SVT:

Originally Posted By roach46:
thanks for the complement, this was brought up on another board some time ago that they were "unsafe" and 2 other know builders were sued because of it



I was about to let this topic go, but I have to point out one thing.

This statement is purely fictional, nothing was ever said about anyone being sued over anything. What was said was Sellars and Newton use all three rivets in their builds. Nothing more, nothing less.

Feel free to quote me.



heres your words, quote, "Youre a gunsmith. If youre building these things without all the rivets, youre setting yourself up for a big liability.

Ask Josh Newton, or Troy Sellars."

I copied and paste so there was no mistake, heres the thread
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=120492

you guys wanna beat this to death have at it, I`m done with this thread



I meant ask them how they install the 3rd rivet. I didnt say anyone got sued. Anyway, im done as well.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:51:20 AM EDT
agreed
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 10:35:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m03:

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
I have 4 Krinks all built by AK-USA. ALL have two rivets on both sides, that's standard procedure when building a Krink Chris Butler says. He wouldn't build them any other way!!



Congrats. You have 4 Krinks that are all built incorrectly. I don't care who built them...if they don't have 3 rivets per side, then they're half-assed in atleast one way.

Who do you trust more with building your AK, Chris Butler or Mikhail Kalashnikov?



well I suppose it goes to Kalashnikov, but it is a tight race. Typically what Chris says can be 100%% trusted. He is an EXTREMELY knowledgeable guy and in my opinion the best builder out there... even if he is pricey.......
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 11:41:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 2:17:12 PM EDT by LUGERMAN]

Originally Posted By m03:

Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
I have 4 Krinks all built by AK-USA. ALL have two rivets on both sides, that's standard procedure when building a Krink Chris Butler says. He wouldn't build them any other way!!



Congrats. You have 4 Krinks that are all built incorrectly. I don't care who built them...if they don't have 3 rivets per side, then they're half-assed in atleast one way.

Who do you trust more with building your AK, Chris Butler or Mikhail Kalashnikov?



Here's a pic of my AK-USA built Krink. Clearly three rivets.


Link Posted: 12/22/2005 12:10:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodinert:

Here's a Chris Butler krink from his web page. Looks OK to me.



Me too. That trunnion is correct (3 rivets).


Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Incorrectly, hardly. That's pretty funny!!! Half assed, that's even funnier!!!!



If you want to settle for the non-military look, that's your problem. We've already established that 3 rivets is the "correct" way. Any more back-and-forth would be bordering on pissing-contest territory.


Originally Posted By LUGERMAN:
Ted Marshall only uses two rivets per side too.



Not from the pics I remember seeing.
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