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Posted: 12/15/2005 1:19:02 PM EDT
Hey folks,

In looking at the Russian AK 100 series around the web, I have only seen them with the polymer side-folding stocks, and from people I talked to, that's all that is current use with the Russian military.

I was looking at pictures from the Beslan School Massacre, and saw this image:



What type of AK is this, and do any of you have any other pictures of Russian Military soldiers carrying AK 100 series rifles with side-folding skeleton stocks instead of side-folding polymer stocks ?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:55:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 1:59:32 PM EDT by No1Here]
That's the AKS-74. They're being used right now in Chechnya, the AK-74M's and AKS-74's.
The AK-74M is the current make though. AKS-74's were first issued when the Soviet's were in Afghanistan. AKS-74's usually have wood furniture or plum polymer furniture. AK-74M's have black polymer furniture. The optic rail is standard on the AK-74M also,








ETA: The AK 100 Series is based off the AK-74M. They're made for export, not for Russia's Military. Venezula bought 100,000 AK-103's and AK-104's from Russia.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:07:33 PM EDT
awesome pics
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:50:10 PM EDT
Thanks for the info No1Here.

I thought that the AK-103 was the current rifle being used by the russian military, I had no idea that they were still using the AK-74 as their mainline weapon.

I had read somewhere that some of the special forces and police units were switching back to the 7.62x39 because of the performance of the 5.45.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:15:08 PM EDT
Welcome, JHaines.

You're correct on Russian special forces using 7.62x39. It's due to the urban fighting in Chechnya.
I read just a few days ago, Russia is using more PKM's and Pecheng's (modernized PKM) along with the AKM's. Because of their penetration ablity in comparison to 5.45mm fired from AK-74's and RPK-74's.

They developed new 5.45mm loads after their first time in Chechnya. 7n10 is enhanced penetration and 7n22 is armor piercing load, how common these are, I dont know. 7n6 is still the main 5.45mm load being used.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:29:47 PM EDT
Thanks again!

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the topic - where do you pick up all that info ?

So if it's an AK in 7.62x39 in use with the Russian military right now, chances are that it's pretty much an AKM (or possibly one of the new models like the AN-94)?

That settles it. I'll probably have to get an AKM clone now. Where to start ?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:43:22 PM EDT
Glad I could help,

I just pick up info on this board or on the internet. Yea, it'd be the AKM, Everyone here on the board seems to agree that the Egyptian Maadi is the closest to a Russian AKM. They were built on Russian tooling. So either a Maadi or Romanian SAR 1, is what I'd suggest. Also in 2006, Arsenal Inc of Bulgaria is gonna produce an AKM for us here. SLR-108 www.arsenalinc.com/slr108.htm

Right now, the majority of AKM type rifles being sold are built from parts kits. The SAR 1 and Maadi are both built in their country's military factories.

The AN-94 is 4-5 times more expensive to produce than the AK-74M. It's has good things about it but it's said to be too complicated for a conscript military like Russia's. AN-94 is 5.45mm and has the 2 shot burst at 1800 rpm. Here's a video: media.putfile.com/AN-94
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:55:32 PM EDT
Thanks for the video. That's amazing....and I was under the mistaken assumption that the AN-94 was 7.62.

I noticed that the Arsenal SLR-108 has polymer furniture....have most of the AKMs that are being used/carried by the Russian military shifted to polymer, or can wood furniture still be found in abundance ?

Which online dealers carry Arsenal products ?

Are the Romanian SAR and the "WASR" the same thing ?

Thanks again. I really appreciate the information. Other than a few 'side toys' (like a Baretta Storm, and an AK Pistol), I tend to have this strange compulsion to clone what 'modern militaries' are carrying with the firearms I purchase....at least as close as possible with what is available. This helps quite a bit.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:19:01 PM EDT
AKM's carried by Russian soldiers have laminated wood stocks. Russian AK furniture is very expensive. You can find Polish or Romanian laminated sets for cheaper.

lewhorton.com/

www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=2

Both carry Arsenal Inc AK's.

Romanian SAR 1's were imported from 1999-2003. They had original receivers, meaning they had no modifications done after they were imported to the U.S. They will take any 7.62x39 mag. They were imported without the threaded barrels and without the bayonet lug. It's better to see one before you buy. Because of the canted gas blocks and front sights. They need some work but they can turn out to be nice rifles from the pics, I've seen on this board.

WASR 10's are the AK's currently being imported from Romania right now. They do have modifications done to them after they arrive. They have the bayonet lug added and the barrel threaded to accept muzzle brakes with a 14x1mm thread. The receiver is cut out to accept 30 rd mags. Before the receiver mod, they can only be used with 10 rd mags. Some say they work fine, others say they'd never spend the money to get one.

AK's are addictive as many will agree on here. They are an expensive hobby for some, especially depending on how authentic you want your AK to be. They're good rifles and good luck with buying your AKM. The best thing about this board is, no matter the question. Someone will know the answer. I've been a member here for over a year and I've learned more here than anywhere else.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:35:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 8:38:55 PM EDT by JHaines]
Great info. Thanks yet again.

If I am primarily interested in having a clone that looks like the current AKM (and not as concerned with if the rifle was built here or imported complete), would a WASR serve that purpose with a slant brake, bayonet lug, and ability to take high capacity magazines as far as looking the same as an AKM (aside from the furniture) ?

I think I could probably locate one with a straight sight base, and inspect it to insure quality (and I'd probably swap out the trigger).

Do most Russian Military AKMs now have a side scope rail ?
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:47:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 8:53:26 PM EDT by No1Here]
I've never seen a Russian AKM with the scope rail.

The WASR would have the look of an AKM but would be lacking the dimples on the receiver.
This pic will see there is no dimple in the receiver.





A couple pics I found through Google.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:03:18 AM EDT
So if you see a picture where the Russian police and special forces units have optics on their rifles, they probably aren't using an AKM ?

Do most current production Russian Military AK-74s have scope rails ?
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:23:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JHaines:
So if you see a picture where the Russian police and special forces units have optics on their rifles, they probably aren't using an AKM ?

Do most current production Russian Military AK-74s have scope rails ?



all of the AKs made (newer models) since the 74m have the optics rail. 74m, 100s and so on.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:47:29 AM EDT
I'm interested in finding out where I can get a side folding stock for my Krinkov. I don't want a longer length of pull than the AK originally had, so an ACE is out.

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:36:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Paradude54:
I'm interested in finding out where I can get a side folding stock for my Krinkov. I don't want a longer length of pull than the AK originally had, so an ACE is out.




K-Var seems to be the only online place I've seen, but every few weeks one is for sale on the EE, also check ruseller on gunbroker, he usually has some.

-mark
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:39:22 AM EDT
I ordered 2 of them from K-Var over a month ago and when I contacted them earlier this week they were still on back order and had no idea when they might come in.

I guess I'll just have to keep my eyes on the EE and gunbroker.

Thanks,
Robert
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:46:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JHaines:
So if you see a picture where the Russian police and special forces units have optics on their rifles, they probably aren't using an AKM ?


Correct, As you can see in this pic, there's no optic rail on the AKM, like you would find on the AK-74M.



Here they're using a Kobra on the AK-74M.

Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:41:40 AM EDT
Just an aside:

Do any of the Russian military/police units currently use underfolders ?

What about other militaries from the former Soviet Union, do they use underfolders ?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:40:17 AM EDT
I've seen pics of Russian soldiers using underfolder AKM's in Chechnya. AKM's were used in Afghanistan too, but with suppressors.

Russian soldiers with underfolder AKM's:







A pic of the suppressor used on AKM's



Other militaries that use underfolder AKM's are Hungarian and Yugoslavian.





Yugoslavian military:



Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:01:40 PM EDT
Very cool pics!!!
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 12:05:40 PM EDT
the old combloc countries have come a long way. awesome pics.
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