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Posted: 12/14/2005 11:17:49 AM EDT
It was interesting when that young devil dog was hit in the stomach, and he instantly knew that he had been hit with a 5.45mm round, used in the AK-74 rifle... I don't think that I'd be able to differentiate...
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:27:16 AM EDT
You've got me interested,but I don't have a clue what you're talking about.Give us a little more of the story.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:36:43 AM EDT
Sorry, it was an episode of shootout on the history channel. I believe it was the battle for Ramadi, Iraq. A rifleman with 4/2, either a Lance or Cpl. was making a dash across a courtyard after intial contact(ambush) At that point he took a round in the stomach right below his flak jacket. The narrator then said that the Marine instantly knew that he was hit by the Soviet designed 5.45mm bullet used in newer generation AK-74 rifles. The Marine thought about his wife for a moment, then got his second wind. Got up, continued the fight.

I just found it odd that he knew exactly what he was hit with when he took the round.

He lived btw...
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:46:33 AM EDT
He also smoked a cigarette after being hit.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:00:34 PM EDT
7.62X39 tends to do more damage and land heavier. Not the other wounded marine whose leg was turned into hamburger by a bullet deflected down the leg bone. Also it said most of the 5.45 bullets energy was expended because it hit his carry handle on the rifle.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:17:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 12:18:33 PM EDT by jdmtyper04]
Not only did the 22 year old Marine get up and continue to fight,he then had to ride out of the area of operation in the back of a open Hummer,with his wounded and KIA fellow Marines,while still under fire.

On the next episode did you guys see the 19 or 20 year old Marine that took a 7.62x39 round in his shin right below the knee while trying to clear the rooftop?The round destroyed the bone and his femoral artery and he passed out,only to wake up as he was being dragged down quite a few steps by an Army medic.

There was another Marine who took a 7.62x39 round right under his right ear and it exited below his right nostril!This Marine lived to tell about it,Thank God.

I really liked the Marines answer to the Iraqi sniper with the Dragunov who was holed up in an abandoned hotel! M1A1 Abrams 120mm main gun rounds did the job!

I love watching the show,this is all of the things that you never see on the news,and it makes me realize the danger that our men and women in uniform go through everyday for all of us.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:18:55 PM EDT
Very good episode last night, made me very proud of our men over there.

Has anyone even seen a pic of a 5.45 AK over in Iraq? Every single picture I've seen of an AK is 7.62x39 except for the soldiers from Poland and other NATO countries using 5.56 AK's.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:33:25 PM EDT
Errrr!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:36:14 PM EDT
I dont really know about 74's in Iraq,but a good friend of mine saw them around while serving in Afghanistan.He said there were very few though probaly because of the massive amounts of 7.62x39 ammo over there.Of course some of the insurgents in Iraq are coming in from other countries.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:39:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jdmtyper04:
I dont really know about 74's in Iraq,but a good friend of mine saw them around while serving in Afghanistan.He said there were very few though probaly because of the massive amounts of 7.62x39 ammo over there.Of course some of the insurgents in Iraq are coming in from other countries.



I would expect there to be a ton of 5.45 AK's in Afghanistan because of the war with the Soviets. Bin Laden claims to have taken his AKU-74S from a dead Russian soldier there. But Soviets were never in Iraq, I can't think of why any 5.45 AK's would be there.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:40:43 PM EDT
His first clue might have been that there was no exit wound...there are no bones in your abdominal cavity other than the spine...and he wasn't hit there.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:49:41 PM EDT
Only country I know of that's been in Iraq and using 5.45, is Romania.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:52:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 1:04:55 PM EDT by MauserMark]
swweet, got it recorded on DVR at home (I think ), will watch tonight

btw, I always wondered if there were any 5.45 AKs in Iraq at all.... guess we know now.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:10:59 PM EDT
The young Marine that was hit in the stomach said that as he started to stand up from behind his cover,the round actually hit the carry handle on his M16A2,and then deflected off of the rifle into his stomach just below his vest.The bullet stopped in his large intestine.The Marine said that the medics said if the rifle had not taken most of the impact,the bullet would probaly have wound up in his spine!
This leads me to believe that the narrorator was mistaken about the caliber or maybe it was an 5.45x39 from a foreign insurgents gun.(maybe Taliban from Afghanistan with a 74)
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:13:09 PM EDT
I'm sure the Chechens who are definately in Iraq have access to a few 5.45's here and there...
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:21:28 PM EDT
I watch it sometimes, Now. I am no tactics specialist but it is beyond me why they enter the door three or four at a time and generally catch fire as soon as they go in. Two seconds later, 2 or 3 of them get hit and they come backing out the door again.Seems pretty pointless.I saw saw this about three times during the episodes..Gotta be a better way to enter the building...Anyways like I said I dont know shit about the tactics.Just an observation
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:54:08 PM EDT
Yeah I saw it. I have both epis on my DVR.

Did anyone see the Hollywood shootout ep. The LA LEO and/or the narrator(cant remember which) said that the robbers were using "armor piercing" ammo in the AKs. Any validity this? Or are they just saying this because the bullets penetrated the Kevlar, and therefore must be evil AP ammo? Tehy made a point of saying armor piercing amm multiple times.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:39:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 4:40:48 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:52:59 PM EDT
FWIW, I was over last year and saw nothing but 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R PKMs and Dragunovs. In Afghanistan there would be a lot more 5.45 I would guess. All the Ukranians and Polish had 5.45 though.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:13:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By --bullseye--:
Yeah I saw it. I have both epis on my DVR.

Did anyone see the Hollywood shootout ep. The LA LEO and/or the narrator(cant remember which) said that the robbers were using "armor piercing" ammo in the AKs. Any validity this? Or are they just saying this because the bullets penetrated the Kevlar, and therefore must be evil AP ammo? Tehy made a point of saying armor piercing amm multiple times.



I've spoken with the investigator in charge of the crime scene in L.A., and he swore it was "armor piercing" ammo that was used by the robbers. He was certain of this.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:37:43 PM EDT
I saw the episode, and the claim of knowing it was a 5.45 round just pegged my BS meter. Didn't give any supporting info that it was, unless the Marine saw the weapon, or some other crap and that got edited out.

As for Afghanistan, in my time over there in '04, and seeing literally thousands of Afghan National Army soldiers at work, I saw ONE '74 being used. And yes, I was on the lookout for them. Saw lotsa Romanian slobs carrying 5.45s though, and possibly the Bulgarians were packing them as well.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:43:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
One thing I really like about "Shootout" is that they always seem to get the gear right. If they say a guy is shooting an M16A4, that's what they depict. If a bad guy is shooting an RPK, they show an RPK. So many other docu-dramas that "reenact" historic events get the gear all wrong, they have guys running around in Desert Storm with triangle handguards on their M16s and just basic mistakes like that.



I have seen 16" barrels and slab side Colt lowers with A2 uppers on that show. They do better than most, but still. They also dont have very trick guns--Marines do not use M16A2s with TA01NSNs mounted to the carry handle. At least not in quantity.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:43:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By byg:
I watch it sometimes, Now. I am no tactics specialist but it is beyond me why they enter the door three or four at a time and generally catch fire as soon as they go in. Two seconds later, 2 or 3 of them get hit and they come backing out the door again.Seems pretty pointless.I saw saw this about three times during the episodes..Gotta be a better way to enter the building...Anyways like I said I dont know shit about the tactics.Just an observation



A better way? Blow a hole in the side with a 120mm gun and walk in
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:08:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
One thing I really like about "Shootout" is that they always seem to get the gear right. If they say a guy is shooting an M16A4, that's what they depict. If a bad guy is shooting an RPK, they show an RPK. So many other docu-dramas that "reenact" historic events get the gear all wrong, they have guys running around in Desert Storm with triangle handguards on their M16s and just basic mistakes like that. hr


I entered Iraq the day of the invasion in '91 carrying a M-16A1 with Triangle Handguards. So did my whole battalion. We had Mk-19's which were relativley new but no A2s.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:15:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:19:20 PM EDT
Watched it the other night, I enjoyed the episode after that about the battles in Najaf and the hotel room sniper that kept them pinned down in the graveyard. They showed an authentic Drag, and the marines said he was using a Dragunov.

But the 5.45 statement in the Ramadi episode made me suspicious as well, I mean how would he have known that? I'm sure there's more to the story then we would know.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:38:54 PM EDT
Duke: NG soldiers still had A1s in quantity.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:04:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
But the 5.45 statement in the Ramadi episode made me suspicious as well, I mean how would he have known that? I'm sure there's more to the story then we would know.


He probably just thought that since it didnt tear his insides up it must have been the smaller round. Many people dont understand that the size of the bullett isnt the defining factor in how bad it will mess you up.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:12:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By Mogwa:

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
One thing I really like about "Shootout" is that they always seem to get the gear right. If they say a guy is shooting an M16A4, that's what they depict. If a bad guy is shooting an RPK, they show an RPK. So many other docu-dramas that "reenact" historic events get the gear all wrong, they have guys running around in Desert Storm with triangle handguards on their M16s and just basic mistakes like that. hr


I entered Iraq the day of the invasion in '91 carrying a M-16A1 with Triangle Handguards. So did my whole battalion. We had Mk-19's which were relativley new but no A2s.



Whoa. I stand corrected. Did they still run ok? I figured everyone would have switched over by then.



Don't know, never had to shoot it the whole three days of the war. MK19 ran like a raped ape. The only ones I saw with A2 were Division soldiers.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:23:50 AM EDT
Greetings from Iraq fellas.

I've been over here in the trenches now for over 14 months (2 deployments) ...after countless weapons caches and weapons taken off of dead insurgents...I've never seen an AK74.

I've seen about everything else under the sun. A few of the gems that I've found were/are:

-Sterling MGs x 3
-Numerous Mausers...mostly German 98ks
-HK MP5s
-Rusty Thompson M1a1
-Chrome plated AKs from all corners of the eastern world
-Several FN FALS
-Several Carl Gustavs'

-and many, many, many and many AKs from all over. Mostly China and local Iraqi made wpns. You guys would go nuts over here. It is a shame that we will never be able to appreicate their collector value.

ARCAPTN

ARCAPTN

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:34:39 AM EDT
awesome, stay safe!

and of course post some weapons cache pics
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