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Posted: 12/12/2005 3:46:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:43:46 PM EDT by ForGreatJustice]
What's the best attempt at "first-worlding" the AK Kalashnikov operating system? Which ritzy high priced AK Kalashnikov variant is the best or baddest? Is it the Galil? The SIG 550 series? The Sako M9x and Valmet guns? Maybe the polish Beryl or Czech 2000. America's got the KTR, and I suppose Russia has to get a nod with the AN-94, AK 108, the Groza, and 9x39 weapons ad nauseum.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:18:20 PM EDT
I wouldn't know what the best is, but I sure as hell want a Beryl more than anything else listed!!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:27:42 PM EDT
Hands down AN-94 most revolutionary new development in small arms since the development of the MP 44.

Sign_Wolfman
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:28:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chinook:
I wouldn't know what the best is, but I sure as hell want a Beryl more than anything else listed!!



+1
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:39:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:46:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ForGreatJustice:
What's the best attempt at "first-worlding" the AK? Which ritzy high priced AK variant is the best or baddest? Is it the Galil? The SIG 550 series? The Sako M9x and Valmet guns? Maybe the polish Beryl or Czech 2000. America's got the KTR, and I suppose Russia has to get a nod with the AK 108, the Groza, AN-94, and 9x39 weapons ad nauseum.

AN-94 is not an ak! Looks similar, but mechancically its like comparing an apple to an orange!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:29:51 PM EDT
CZ2000...a Kalashnikov with all the improvements that everyone has complained about the AK-47/AKM not having over the years.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:33:42 PM EDT
You're right...the AN-94 is not an AK! My bad.


Inside, that thing is waaay weird.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:36:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 5:42:50 PM EDT by Alacrity]

Originally Posted By Templar:
I've owned Valmets and Galils, and they are great rifles, but of the ones you listed, the SIG 55X series is the tits.



Agreed - where is the Sig forum?

Luck
Alac

ETA wasnt there some scuttlebutt about SIG US operations building them here? Thought that was a line of crap until I see FN really getting some of the good stuff done. Then again, the AUG thing fell through. I dig a 550, but I aint paying 10-15 large for one. If the SIG is made here, lots of SIG fan-boi are gonna be irate

Luck
Alac

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:48:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 2:18:25 PM EDT by MauserMark]
The next person on this forum that asks about the new AK that does the 2 round burst, or that the AN94 is the most advanced ak will be banned
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:42:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:44:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MauserMark:
The next person on this forum that asks about the new AK that does the 2 round burst, or that the AN94 is the most advanced ak will be banned



I so solly mastah!!!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:00:04 PM EDT
Templar:

That's it? No elaboration? No price? How about mags? Tell me theres a 551 in my future. Come on man spill it. Perhaps everyone else is in the know, but pretend I live in a bottle and only get let loose every few months, eh.

As much as I like the Beryl (and Poles), the Swiss can make guns.

Thx
Alac
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:56:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 7:59:02 PM EDT
Will they say "5.6mm" on the side? That would be hot!


STILL to rich for my blood tho.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:11:04 PM EDT
Does anyone have any photos of the Bery and the pole versions?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:13:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:56:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:58:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sign_Wolfman:
Hands down AN-94 most revolutionary new development in small arms since the development of the MP 44.

Sign_Wolfman




Um, no.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:18:37 AM EDT
SIG 551 hands down... best designed Kalrisnokov ever... they thought of things with that rifle that should of been done to many of the other AKs out there.. the Return spring on the piston is pure sex as and lets not forget the fact that they are just plan cool..

if the 551 hits the states i will probably pick one up if they are priced desent.. it would become my Prized firearm...

theres anouther brand new firearm thats out by HK that looks promiesing.. the brought this one out after their first OICW prototype failed,, HK416 not an AK based firearm but basicly a Gaspitson driven AR from the looks of it..

Ok my Baised statements have been made...

ahh the prfect combo.. SIG 551 and P226 in .40
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:42:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Templar:

Originally Posted By Alacrity:
Templar:

That's it? No elaboration? No price? How about mags? Tell me theres a 551 in my future. Come on man spill it. Perhaps everyone else is in the know, but pretend I live in a bottle and only get let loose every few months, eh.

As much as I like the Beryl (and Poles), the Swiss can make guns.

Thx
Alac



Well, ok.

The upper recievers should be the same as the standard 55X series. The main difference is that lower receiver will supposedly be made of weapons grade polymer, READ: LIGHTER like a glock, HK USP, Walther P99...etc.

Pricing?????? Should be under $2K. Made in New Hampshire.

Mags will probably be standard SIG 550 type. They might be building a lower receiver that would accept NATO STANAG magazines, like the M16.



Under $2kUSD would be damn decent. - PE90s go for between 2000-2500EUR in some European markets (where available) so I wouldnt feel abused. The STANAG receiver would be icing - especially if the 550 mags would be as expensive as I imagine.

Thx
Alac
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:09:25 AM EDT
The Sig rifle is not a Kalashnikov. You do all know the design is licensed from Beretta, right? It's a PIP AR-70.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:47:09 PM EDT
I thought only the gas piston design was derived from the AR-70? The bolt looked very simliar to the Kalashnikov bolt, and I remember reading something about the AK influencing the design of the SIG 540 series after the Swiss gave up on roller-delayed blowback actions.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:46:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azuredog:
The Sig rifle is not a Kalashnikov. You do all know the design is licensed from Beretta, right? It's a PIP AR-70.



Baka...

Basically, the SIG-550 is a somewhat lightened and refined SIG-540/541 rifle. SIG-550 featured AK-47 style action, gas operated, with gas piston attached to the bolt carrier, and with rotating bolt with two massive lugs. The recoil spring is located around the gas piston rod, above the barrel, and the bolt carrier attached to the gas piston rod by the mean of removable charging handle. The gas port has gas regulator with two different open and one closed position (latter for firing rifle grenades). The receiver is made from stamped steel and has two major parts, upper and lower, which are connected by pushpins. The barrel is screwed into the upper receiver. The trigger unit has a safety/fire selector switch on the left side of the receiver, with 3 settings: safe, semi-auto, full-auto. If desired, additional module could be installed in the trigger mechanism to allow 3-rounds burst mode. Rear sights are drum-type (like those found on Heckler-Koch rifles). SIG-550 has muzzle compensator/flash hider of NATO-standard diameter, so it is possible to launch rifle grenades from the muzzle. The SIG-550 has integral folding bipods under the handguard, and issued with side-folding, skeletonized polymer buttstock. Every rifle of SIG-550 family can be fitted with proprietary, quick detachable scope mount. Swiss Stgw.90 are often seen with 4X fixed power scope, export versions can be equipped with commercial telescope sights, ACOG or "red dot" sights, depending on customer preferences. SIG-550 also can be fitted with bayonet.


Quoted from World Guns Russia

and also go and look at a 550 serires rifle striped down.. its devided into a upper and lower it IS a more well defined Kalrisnokov
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 2:24:53 PM EDT
Well, shit, by that logic the Daewoo is a Kalashnikov too.



Link Posted: 12/13/2005 2:56:21 PM EDT

What's the best Neo-AK?


This should be....

"What's the best Neo-AK available to the USA?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:16:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 762hurts:

What's the best Neo-AK?


This should be....

"What's the best Neo-AK available to the USA?



Yea, I agree. And with that being said, I vote Krebs KTR-03S.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:42:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:45:10 PM EDT by ForGreatJustice]

Originally Posted By CFII:

Originally Posted By 762hurts:

What's the best Neo-AK?


This should be....

"What's the best Neo-AK available to the USA?



Yea, I agree. And with that being said, I vote Krebs KTR-03S.



Yeah I guess throwing the Chinese Type 56 and QBZ-95 in would start to make it too academic, huh?

The SIG 550 and Daewoo are sort of available in the US....

You know what? This whole topic is named wrong, because NONE of the guns I cited are "AKs". At a stretch, they're Kalashnikovs, or AK variants, or Kalashnikov variants. Not even all Kalashnikovs are AKs, right? There's RPKs, FPK/PSLs, PKMs....

If all "Kalashnikov" variants are called such because of their operating system, designed originally by Mikhail, then which PART of the total rifle system do we consider definitive? For me, its the bolt lockup and gas system. But, if you start to throw the fire control system in there, you start to get lost. I don't think FCG counts simply because its so easy to alter. The Daewoo has an AR-15 style bolt and lockup, though, right? I think the SIG and AR-70 bolt is more of the 2-lug fixed ejector system.

I really think the XCR has merit, BTW.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:52:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thekatar:
Well, shit, by that logic the Daewoo is a Kalashnikov too.

www.gunsworld.com/world/dr200/graphs/dr200bolt.gif





The SIG 55x has an AK-style two lug bolt, so it's a little closer than the Daewoo.



By the strictest definition of an AK, the Sako RK95 would be the winner. 7.62x39 and it uses an standard AK magazine.

The Galil has its own magazine design, so it's a little different, but still obviously an AK.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:33:23 AM EDT
Strip a Sig 55x down and it is readily apparent that it is a PIP AK47 and the most sophisticated of all the AK-derived firearms.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:11:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Anarx:


and also go and look at a 550 serires rifle striped down.. its devided into a upper and lower it IS a more well defined Kalashnikov



+1, no one argues that the Galil is an AK, and after looking at the stripped down 552 in this THREAD it is apparent that is also an AK derivitive.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:43:53 PM EDT
Krebs KTR-03s, VEPR, or SAM-7/SLR-105
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:11:08 PM EDT
WTS/WTT Sig 550 NIB unfired $9500.00



p.s. I have no involvement with this ad.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:05:21 PM EDT
The one you build yourself with a hammer, vice, and a drill press!
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:52:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
The one you build yourself with a hammer, vice, and a drill press!



Hands down.

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