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Posted: 11/24/2003 11:47:12 AM EDT
Those that hang here have a better appreciation of the AK operation so I want to post this here... I wonder how hard it would be to modify an AKM barrel assembly to intereact with an AR-15 or better yet an AR-47 lower receiver? What I mean is an AKM barrel assembly mounted into an AR upper.

I can't help but think that if we were able to combine the modular Stoner lower with the option of a gas opperated system like the AR-15 PLUS swap an upper for one that would be piston powered like the AKM for the dirty jobs when the standard AR platform suffers....

I just wish I had the time as I have the spare parts kits and man would this be cool if someone could get it to work! Anybody have some ideas on how this might be done?

I was thinking that an AR-15 carrer could be linked to an AK-style piston.... have I gone off the deep end?
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 12:08:44 PM EDT
Just buy a Daewoo.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 12:21:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2003 12:25:32 PM EDT by krinkfreak]
I remember when the Daewoo K1 and K2 rifles came out.....$395

KF

Caliber: 5.56x45mm NATO (.223 Rem)
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 980 mm (730mm w. folded stock)
Barrel length: 465 mm
Weigth: 3.26 kg
Magazine capacity: 30 rds
Rate of fire: 750 rds/min


Daewoo K1 and K2 are primary infantry weapons of the South Korean Army. These rifles replaced in service old M16A1 rifles.
Technically, Daewoo K2 is a select-fire, gas driven, rotating bolt firearm. The bolt/bolt carrier assembly of the K2 is very similar to one of the M16, but with one main difference: in the place of the gas expansion chamber of the M16, K2 bolt carrier has a cut slot. In this slot is inserted the rear part of the gas rod, with gas piston attached to the forward part of the gas rod. Also, K2 does not have the recoil buffer, that could be found in almost any M16/AR15 type weapons. The receiver is of folding design (upper and lower receiver are connected via 2 steel pins, like the M16 or FN FNC receivers). Charging handle is installed on the right side of the bolt carrier. The polymer buttsock is folding (to the right side of the weapon). Gas system has 4 positions switch - one position is for rifle grenades firing (gas port is closed completely), other 3 positions - for operations in normal conditions, in adverse conditions and in extreme heat.
The K1 is a cut-down, shortened version of the K2 with telescopic stock and shorter barrel.
Civilan, semi-auto version of the K2 is manufactured in two calibers: 5.56x45mm (.223) and 77.62x39mm, and is named DR-200 or DR-300, respectively.





Link Posted: 11/24/2003 12:30:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2003 12:35:44 PM EDT by Kaliburz]

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
(SNIP,SNIP)
I was thinking that an AR-15 carrer could be linked to an AK-style piston.... have I gone off the deep end?



There was someone that was working on one as a kit form. So one could adapt a current gas tube upper to a gas piston. Something about replacing the key on the carrier w/ a rod that went through the gas tube hole. I can't recall his name off the top of my head. He's in Arizona, hangs around the Cav crew... but I can't recall his name right now. He was in testing last I heard.

If I ever got that Special Weopons AR-47 lower, I probably would modify the upper to a gas piston. (Oh, I think Todd of Special Weopons was working on one too...saw that in my many readings..not sure if he did it or just ranted on about doing it.)

Do a search.... the post might still be around.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 1:29:23 PM EDT
I'd visit robarm.com for a M96.

A local guy had the rare misfortune of busting a bolt part on his Daewoo early this summer, and even with Campy's connections was unable to find a replacement part.
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:08:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:29:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 3:59:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 7:20:13 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Wow, thanks for all the replies... Now, I wonder about the OA-93 style uppers as aren't these a piston based system as well? Weren't these available in 7.62x39?

I would just like to be able to use my clean and well shooting AR-15 gas operated upper on good days and the crud busting piston at other times with nothing more then a swap of an upper... I will try to look at some of these examples for ways to see how it might be done!

Regards,
QB
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:16:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jeepcreep:
...pardon me if I am showing my age here...but iirc Sgt. Rhino came out with one of these conversion kits in 1988...atleast I believe it was Sgt Rhino.... I do remember it didn't sell though.



I remember the Rhino kit too JC.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:49:55 AM EDT
AR-18/preban AR-180, gas operated, rotating bolt.

5sub
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 7:59:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:09:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
rhino! that's it! thanks jeepcreep!

how about the stoner 63 weapons system? eugene had a change of heart, perhaps?




CAMPYB.,
Eugene detested the 5.56mm for military use.

Sullivan and Fremont designed the Stoner 63 in 5.56 - Earlier, Stoner had designed the Stoner 62 that was never produced.

Stoner designed the AR-10 & AR-16 while at ArmaLite and later the Stoner 62 while at Cadillac-Gage all in 7.62X51. Of course Stoner's last design was the SR-25 for KAC.

(The only two 5.56mm guns Stoner did design, the FARC and the Stoner 86LMG, were never produced.)

Jim Sullivan* and Bob Fremont designed the AR-15 and the Stoner 63.

Art Miller designed the AR-18. (The AR-18 design borrowed liberaly from the AR-16 and, really, all the preceeding ArmaLite designs.)

* Sullivan later designed the Mini-14 and Model 77 for Bill Ruger. Both Ruger guns have sold well over one million copies ech.

5sub
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:20:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
AR-18/preban AR-180, gas operated, rotating bolt.

5sub



Edited to add: Also AR-16.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:26:24 AM EDT
Just on a PERSONAL note, I had the chance to meet with H. James Sullivan in 1999. Due to job commitments I couldn't make the trip.

One of the few things left that I would truly like to do is to have a chance to sit down with H. James Sullivan one-on-one. The Good Lord WILLING, and the creek stay nominally within its' banks, that will happen in 2004.

5sub
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:29:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Just buy a Daewoo.




Yup...what he said!
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 8:35:57 AM EDT
Dosen't the ZM weapons upper use a piston also?
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 9:10:12 AM EDT
ZM still uses direct gas impingement. They just make it look different than the std AR.


Gimme less than a week, something cool is on its way.
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 5:40:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TopCrest:
ZM still uses direct gas impingement. They just make it look different than the std AR.

Gimme less than a week, something cool is on its way.

marked
Link Posted: 11/25/2003 6:19:23 PM EDT
Oh what the hell, here's the movie. Just waiting on the last of the parts to get the first production run done.

www.hayesresearch.com/GasPistonDemo.WMV

That's about the 7th gen gas piston prototype/pre-production model with about 3500 rounds thru it. Most of those were full auto mag dumps. Its funtrying to destroy things.

A more formal announcement will be made in the next few days if everything goes as planned.

***A very special thanks to Cav Arms for letting me use their full auto lowers for T&E***
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 3:32:43 AM EDT
Please tell me more!!! That video rocks and I am quite anxious to know just how this works such as is this a real piston based system and will she run in 7.62x39?

This is much easier then me chopping up an AKM kit and an AR-15 upper to cobble some parts together!
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 3:06:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Please tell me more!!! That video rocks and I am quite anxious to know just how this works such as is this a real piston based system and will she run in 7.62x39?

This is much easier then me chopping up an AKM kit and an AR-15 upper to cobble some parts together!



I dont see why it wouldnt run in 762x39, the only issues would be with the gas port.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 4:55:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TopCrest:

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Please tell me more!!! That video rocks and I am quite anxious to know just how this works such as is this a real piston based system and will she run in 7.62x39?

This is much easier then me chopping up an AKM kit and an AR-15 upper to cobble some parts together!



I dont see why it wouldnt run in 762x39, the only issues would be with the gas port.



Have you been lurking around TopCrest? No word on the project since....early spring(?), IIRC.

I too am waiting paitiantly..... What is up w/ gas port? Is the gas "hole" (if there is a hole) in your piston upper sized for .223?
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 6:16:14 PM EDT
I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread.

take care,
Tec
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 1:59:24 PM EDT
How much is the ZM Weapons gas-piston upper for the AR? Why hasn't somebody just made a copy of the Daewoo gas system that will drop on a standard AR receiver?
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:24:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jt325i:
How much is the ZM Weapons gas-piston upper for the AR? Why hasn't somebody just made a copy of the Daewoo gas system that will drop on a standard AR receiver?



I think copy is the wrong word, but a refit kit for standard AR's. From the reading I have so far found, a refit kit (Rhino) was available way back when, but some view this as a non issue...as "why fix something that isn't broken". The Rhino piston kit went away due to one thing...lack of interest (ie no one bought it). If there were ever complete uppers available, they must have went the way of the dino...became extinct due to lack of interest (sales).
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