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Posted: 11/7/2003 7:39:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 7:43:56 AM EDT
Well you sold me! This will be my first AK build. I hope it all goes well.
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 9:03:42 AM EDT
Just think Campy, If our Country was erally free we could buy up those AK-74s un-cut and operable for a hundred bucks...
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 9:32:15 AM EDT
From what I have seen from different European gun brokers, the normal price is about $50 if you buy in bulk. Bulk meaning a few hundred. Most brokers/arsenals will demill to whatever standards for a little extra. The guy I buy AK stuff in Russia buys current production AK74M demills from Izhmash for about $100 each, and thats only for a handful at a time.


Normally, importers charge 3 times their net cost. The other 2/3s of retail is eaten up by shipping costs, overhead paperwork, etc and finally profit.
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 11:19:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 1:23:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 3:30:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 3:42:34 PM EDT
And I thought you were going to say something like "AK's, SAR's in particular, are relitively cheap. It's the truck load of ammo you keep buying to feed the darn things. And that's the real cost of an AK."
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 6:09:21 PM EDT
I know this might be almost trolling here, but I'm glad you can't get select fire AK-74s for a hundred bucks in America.

The relative expensiveness of "assault weapons" helps to seperate those who are commited to them for collecting, sport, and defence from those who are going to take down a convenience store.

Link Posted: 11/7/2003 8:19:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJjer_Bullets:
I know this might be almost trolling here, but I'm glad you can't get select fire AK-74s for a hundred bucks in America.

The relative expensiveness of "assault weapons" helps to seperate those who are commited to them for collecting, sport, and defence from those who are going to take down a convenience store.








You can take down a convenience store with a $25 buck pistol off the street just the same as with a $100 AK...The only thing is the person that will take down a C-store will not deal with the NFA like we would....I would glady pay even a $500-$1000 transfer to be able to buy a $100 brand apnkin new AK!!!!!

Link Posted: 11/7/2003 10:19:14 PM EDT
The low cost of a Kalashnikov is all relative though- look where they are made.

For example, Russia. There the average worker at Izhmash makes $150 a month. In the US, the average worker at Ruger makes what, $2000-2500 a month?

I would like to see them importable again also, but still have the present class III system in place.

Link Posted: 11/7/2003 10:22:38 PM EDT
That's my point. Keep the people who want to commit petty crimes and acts of violence armed with $25 dollar pistols.

Leave the quality weapons in the hands of those who can appreciate them.

You aren't going to buy a $500-1200 dollar rifle so you can make off with $150 dollars from a register, and that may be part of why "assault weapons" play so little a part in crime.

That's our best defense against stronger legislation, and I for one would prefer to keep it that way.

Link Posted: 11/8/2003 5:24:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 5:26:06 AM EDT by TheRealSundance]
Marstar arms sells brand new Yugo FA MILLED ak-47 for $283 US

How about a MP-40 for $525

OR A
Norinco 1911 for $245 or a M-14 for $301.


I beleive there has been only one crime committed with a registered FA NFA gun. And that was a police officer who commited the crime. IIRC.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 5:33:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
Marstar arms sells brand new Yugo FA MILLED ak-47 for $283 US

How about a MP-40 for $525

OR A
Norinco 1911 for $245 or a M-14 for $301.


I beleive there has been only one crime committed with a registered FA NFA gun. And that was a police officer who commited the crime. IIRC.



I was talking to a guy in Canada about guns, He sais those new Norinco M-14s they are getting are better looking and quality than the Springfields...
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 12:54:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJjer_Bullets:
That's my point. Keep the people who want to commit petty crimes and acts of violence armed with $25 dollar pistols.

Leave the quality weapons in the hands of those who can appreciate them.

You aren't going to buy a $500-1200 dollar rifle so you can make off with $150 dollars from a register, and that may be part of why "assault weapons" play so little a part in crime.

That's our best defense against stronger legislation, and I for one would prefer to keep it that way.



Not to completely hijack this thread, but I totally disagree. If you're knocking over the local 7-11, you're going to go in with an easily concealed firearm such as a pistol or sawed off shotgun--in and out. The person behind the counter is seeing the business end of a firearm and that's all they care about. No one is going in with a full-auto AK-74, whether $100 or $1200 because it isn't easily concealed and they'll be easily spotted before, during and after the crime.

The 1986 ban artificially increases the cost of full-auto rifles for law-abiding citizens while a criminal could still take a $350 post-ban AK and convert it. I agree with severe penalties when using a firearm in a crime, and also with thorough background checks at the time of purchase. That's about all the 'gun laws' we need.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 1:05:25 PM EDT
The conveniance store thing was only an example I was offering. Let's not start a debate over what one should use for that exact crime.

I'm only saying that, for example, the average run of the mill criminal makes do with what they can afford. Most of the time you aren't talking about quality weaponry. They don't know the difference most of the time, but I guarentee you that if you could get full-auto Kalashnikovs for under $200 dollars you would see them start to show up in the wrong places.

Sure there is the criminal weapons market, but outside of major organized crime you are talking about fairly cheap handguns.

Sure, criminals could convert any Kalashnikov to full auto right now, because after all they are already resolved to commiting crimes so why should they care?

Problem for them is they rarely have the knowledge to effect even simple modifications beyond taking a hacksaw to a 12-gauge.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 2:18:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:

so 'what' exactly is a new kalashnikov machinegun worth in the new millenium?



not very much....considering they made these years ago and stock piled them as war stock. back in the 70s and 80s I heard that it cost them about 5 or 10 bucks, in labor and materials to make a AK.....so I figure even if bulgaria, romania sold them for 30 bucks ea. they already are making a huge profit on them, considering these where already paid for when they made them.

it's my understanding that some of the importers actually import complete rifles, and do the chopping up to make parts kit here.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 4:07:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 4:42:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
if a crook 'needed' a machinegun, rest assured he would fabricate one or steal one or buy one on the cheap thru the black market.
quote]

That is true, but what I'm saying is that if they were so easy to optain for so very very cheap then many criminals may opt for them whether they need them or not.

As for the North Hollywood shooters, that is hardly a typical event, and thus is not really suitable to be used as an example in a debate.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 5:02:01 PM EDT
Bolivia has a decent political climate, the present unpleasantries aside, reasonably cosmopolitan urban population - with no disaffection for gringos, very affordable domiciles, and no READ NO firearms laws of any consequence. DHL ships to La Paz (and has offices in most European cities). All that is keeping you from your dream is 5 weeks of Spanish language classes. Get hoppin.

I recommend the Hotel Europa or the Radisson while you get your feet wet.



Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 5:53:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 6:25:00 PM EDT by sfcret]

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
sfc...missed you at the show this morning.




figured I would sit this show out and catch the next show, wherever that is, it's not like I'll be missing anything new. kinda glad I did, I don't think I could have handle seeing that abortion you saw....I will be at the plateshoot tomorrow.
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