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Posted: 10/9/2003 8:11:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 9:34:48 AM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]


I got them for $3 a box at the gunshow. 30 rounds per box.

The tips are a soft white plastic but the rest is made like a real round.

I havent shot any off, I guess te white tips will shoot out. Im not sure.

Anyone else shoot these?
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:27:50 PM EDT
I never knew they existed. Why don't you pop a few off in your basement Can you tell if it has a full powder charge?
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:37:41 PM EDT
Barnaul lists them on their web page under military ammunition. No data, to speak of.

www.barnaulammunition.com/military.htm
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:57:16 PM EDT
They look like ordinary 5.45x39 blanks. Unlike AK47 (7.62x39), AK74 doesn't use a blank firing adapter for firing blanks, but instead, it uses the cartridges with those plastic “bullets” that create enough gas pressure while traveling through the barrel to cycle the bolt. They should disintegrate upon exiting the barrel, but I wouldn’t want to be standing in front of the barrel anyway.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 9:06:10 PM EDT
Yeah, I bought some of the 7.62x39mm Blanks also. Those will be for my Yugo SKS grenade launching.

I will shoot these (5,45 blanks) tomorrow. I live in the suburbs, so lets hope I dont get arrested!

I'll tell ya whats it shoots like.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 10:12:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kalibr:
They look like ordinary 5.45x39 blanks. Unlike AK47 (7.62x39), AK74 doesn't use a blank firing adapter for firing blanks, but instead, it uses the cartridges with those plastic “bullets” that create enough gas pressure while traveling through the barrel to cycle the bolt. They should disintegrate upon exiting the barrel, but I wouldn’t want to be standing in front of the barrel anyway.



Then what are the East German 24mm threaded AK-74 blank firing adapters for?
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:25:59 PM EDT
The blank adaptor should have a shredder in it. The blank should not be noticeable more than a foot or two away from the barrel

Be careful though.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:47:07 PM EDT

Careful man. Maybe you should wait and try em at the range first. Don't get yourself in trouble. Call me if this leads to a stand off type situation and I'll try and help you make a breakout.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:53:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2003 11:54:56 PM EDT by M4_Aiming_at_U]

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:

Careful man. Maybe you should wait and try em at the range first. Don't get yourself in trouble. Call me if this leads to a stand off type situation and I'll try and help you make a breakout




Ok, and dont forget to alert the rest of the ARFCOM Amry sa well!



The blank adaptor should have a shredder in it. The blank should not be noticeable more than a foot or two away from the barrel



I have never seen an AK74 blank firing adapter. If I dont have one, will it(the rifle) still cycle? Or am I going to have to charge it each time I fire the gun?

I am asking b/c I dont have a threaded barrel on my SAR-2.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 12:53:02 AM EDT

Hunting rifle ammunition? Are they for snipe hunting?



NRA Life Member
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Link Posted: 10/10/2003 1:27:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2003 1:29:33 AM EDT by JOHNO]
I'm not sure how it will work,the East German BFA is threaded 24mm to go on in place of the 74 Muzzle brake.But like Kalibr said,the plastic bullet may permit enough back pressure for it to cycle.Be careful and set up a target a few feet away to be sure the bullet does vaporize.Good Luck!
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 3:51:13 AM EDT
I thought the blank firing adapter was more of a safety feature than a functional requirement and that the blank should cycle the action with or without the adapter. Please let us know if your experiment confirms that.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 4:12:15 AM EDT
I don't think they are blanks, I think they are short range indoor practice rounds. I think they're good for 50 yards. Definitely put a couple into a berm before you do anything else.

VSP
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 6:57:40 AM EDT
The BFA in my EG mag bag is like the FAL bit. BUt I do not have any exposed threads to try it with.
I've never seen those rounds before, but I am thinking of the suburban cat population.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 7:07:58 AM EDT
I know for sure that they are blanks and not practice rounds, I just don't remember 100% if they would cycle the action without the adapter. In any event, you should follow the rule that you shouldn't point the weapon at anything you'd willing to destroy!
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 7:18:36 AM EDT
Its odd they would use a plastic bullet other than a crimped case.Its possible they use the plastic bullet to promote enough back pressure to cycle the action.Go ahead and fire a couple off in the living room,inquiring minds want to know![DON'T FIRE THEM IN THE LIVING ROOM]
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 7:44:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 7:22:02 PM EDT by chamberlin]
Also to increase reliability of feeding, since the long bullet 5.45 cartridge may not load up the ramp properly in some guns if the long nose isn't there..... BTW that is the 7X3 cartride loaded by Barnaul (Military designation). Very nice find in the comercial market, would love to get some myself to play with, as I only have 2 Soviet era ones in my collection. Also, Russia has made a standard crimped blank in 5.45, I have one dated '79. You would need the adapter for sure with that one, but it is really made for grenades.
-C
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 8:41:31 PM EDT
please brcareful with these rounds and make sure you fully test them at the range before treating them as blanks. safty first my brother
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 9:17:29 PM EDT
Well, I couldn't shoot them off today.

My prick neighbors were outside during the short time I was home today. Hopefully this weekend I will be able to cap them off.

Some of you asked that I shoot at a target, well where I live I cant set up a target and aim, fire at it. This is some I got to do out of the back sliding glass door when by neighbors aren't home or inside.

I will deliver for you guys though.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 4:32:14 AM EDT
thanks m-4
is that barnal ammo?
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 5:00:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1179:
is that barnal ammo?



Sure is.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 7:51:46 AM EDT
Your cartridges are pictured on pages 215 and 217 of "Kalashnikov: The Arms and the Man" by Ezell and Stevens.

It is described as a blank cartridge, "Type 7Kh3", with a hollow frangible white plastic bullet in a normal case.

There is no mention of use with a blank adapter. I also have one of the East German BFA's and I don't think it would allow the parts of the disintegrating bullet to pass through it.

I'd like to find some of those rounds to play with, too.
Regards, Richard W.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 9:09:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 9:10:48 AM EDT by Neutrino45]

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:
Well, I couldn't shoot them off today.

My prick neighbors were outside during the short time I was home today. Hopefully this weekend I will be able to cap them off.

Some of you asked that I shoot at a target, well where I live I cant set up a target and aim, fire at it. This is some I got to do out of the back sliding glass door when by neighbors aren't home or inside.

I will deliver for you guys though.



So, this is a covert operation huh?
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 9:34:34 AM EDT
Ok,


Here is what happened.

I loaded up my SAR-2 with two of these rounds.

I shot them out of my bedroom window (rear of the house, top floor) into the dirt of my backyard. Probably a total of 30yrds at a 45degree angle.

The second round did infact load in the chamber. No BFA (Blank Firing Adapter) was used either.

So I guess these are made to be fired without a BFA since it did have enough gas pressure to reload the other round.

I really would not recommend shooting these at any animal, person (unless they are members of the DNC) or something you wouldn't shoot at with a regular bullet.

I did see a small "puff" from the point of aim, but the dirt is very hard and dry. I cannot find the white projectile from the round.

If the police come, you guys have to pay my bail

Link Posted: 10/13/2003 9:59:45 AM EDT
Try shooting a piece of cardboard.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:05:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:22:48 AM EDT
With all due respect, I remain convinced that they are indeed blanks designed to be fired without a blank firing adapter and not some kind of practice rounds. Just take a look at the picture of the box -- it says "5.45x39 Blank" Perhaps east germans used a more common type of blanks with crimped cases that require the BFA.

It doesn't mean however that you can safely fire it at something within a close range (let's say 50 yards). I'm sure that there would be enough debris flying out of the barrel to create a dust splash at 30 yards, but I'm pretty sure that the bullet doesn't leave the barrel intact.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:29:21 AM EDT
The white plastic bullet on the end is a very soft one. You can carve and make indentations on it with yoiur thmbnail.

Either way, if you got hit with this thing at close range wearing a T-shirt, I think it would break the skin easy.

Im not 100% sure on it, but thats my guesstimation.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:31:31 AM EDT
in any event, if someone knows where to get these, I'd be very interested in buying some.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:34:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kalibr:
in any event, if someone knows where to get these, I'd be very interested in buying some.



How many boxes would you like? If they are at the next show I can pick up some more and you can send me the $'s
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:48:55 AM EDT
Thank you. I don't want to impose too much, but if it's not too much trouble, I'd be interested in 5-10 boxes.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 3:05:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kalibr:
Just take a look at the picture of the box -- it says "5.45x39 Blank"



With all due respect KALIBR, the box also says "HUNTING RIFLE AMMUNITION".... I think there is much lost in the translation.

FWIW: I encountered similar rounds in 2000 while serving as EOD in KOSOVO. They were turned into the local police station and the (Serb) Police said they were for "Crowd Control" (They also used FMJ for same purpose!). We took the safest precaution and treated them as CS/CN loaded ammo. The next day we opened them up and the cartridges appear to have a full powder load and the bullets are hollow plastic, like "M4" said, soft plastic. Nothing special.

The projectiles aren't crimped into the case, but lacquer sealed, the projectiles pull out by hand rather easily.

About a month after running across these rounds, we talked with some Russian Paratrooper "Sappers" who specialize in ammunition. They stated the rounds were for training, with a max range of 15 meters. Now I don't know if that was a DANGER range of 15 meters or an EFFECTIVE range... As these rounds were on the VERY bottom of our "technical exploitation" list, we went on to discussing other items of interest.

Personally, I believe they are the Russian equivalent of "Airsoft" for training exercises. I will NOT even shoot these through my lowly SAR-2! I think the plastic and unburned powder will choke up the weapon. I just don't want to clean that crap out of the system...

Pics:



Link Posted: 10/22/2003 6:09:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 6:14:10 PM EDT by kalibr]
William, you're not really refuting anything I said. "Blanks" are also used for "training", it depends what you mean by "training".

Again, I apologize for coming across as being overly assertive, but there is no way these cartridges are intended to be used as a "simunition" equivalent. It would be an extremely imprudent behavior and a disaster waiting to happen -- not because the "blanks" themselves would be dangerous, but because it would be very easy to accidentally get a live round mixed in together with the blanks. As far as I know, simunition is never used with "uppers" or barrels that can also be used with live ammo.

BTW, the manufacturer’s website also describes the round as “BLANK” and doesn’t give any ballistics characteristics for the projectile, apparently because there are none! See http://www.barnaulammunition.com/military.htm

Incidently, apparently dansammo.com has these blanks in stock, but they are not yet listed on the website. I may go ahead and get some and do a range report.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 10:36:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 10:58:21 PM EDT by chamberlin]
Kalibr, I was given a military ammo brochure from a nice guy at Barnual... it too, states them as blanks, 7X3 (In russian characters), cartridge weight is 6.6 grams (total), 56.8mm long, and 2160 rounds to a box....that's it.

BTW, with regard to the earlier post by Richard-AR15 and the Ezell book, the X
comes from "Õîëîñòîé" (as you know Kalibr!) (turn on your Cyrillic encoding to read this BTW), meaning either, bachelor, single man, a machine that is stitting idle, or in this case, BLANK CARTRIDGE! The American translation shows as
7H3, as H is the closest sound we have to the Russian "X"....think "ch' in Lochness Monster... or as Ezell uses, 'Kh' But, that is confusing, because many Russian made rounds such as "7N22" or "7N10"
are spelled in Russian as 7H22 and 7H10, because their "N" looks like our "H".
That is why I like to use the 7X3 designation for these blanks....OK enough Russian lessons for today ;)
Kalibr, please let me know how much they end up being from Dansammo if you can get them-thanks,

-C
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 7:50:17 AM EDT
Kalibr- Sorry, I truly did & do mean with all due respect, I wasn't out to refute your claim at all. I was just posting an observation of the box.

I still wouldn't want this cartridge shot at me!

IIRC the 7.62x51 Nato .308 blank had a wax & cardboard plug that was "spit" out of the BFA also to a range of 10-15 meters that hurt too! So much for a "Miles Safety Kill..."

Chamberlin- IM sent...

Link Posted: 10/24/2003 9:44:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2003 9:45:47 AM EDT by kalibr]
First, William, no problem at all, it's just sometimes difficult to express the real attitude in faceless communications, so forgive me if I may sound adversarial or something like that. I don't mean to. This topic is not something to get overly excited about in the first place :).

chamberlin, you're of course correct. In fact, I just went looking for the Russian version of the Barnaul website and here is the relevant link: www.ab.ru/~stanok/rus/manuf_cartridge.htm

Interestingly, in the "military ammo" section, they describe the cartridge as "holostoi" and in the "commercial ammo" section they even call it "shumovoi", meaning "noise making". They also refer to the projectile as "plastic bullet imitator". I think that settles the issue of whether it's a "real" blank or not, at least as far as I'm concerned.

And for those interested, no, I don't want to be shot at with this cartridge either.

Also, interestingly, Barnaul’s American website lists sales@dansammo.com as their “sales” contact e-mail.

I guess, I need to order some of these from dansammo. I’ll post the price once I get a chance to give them a call or send an e-mail.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 2:51:29 PM EDT
These must be the new"kop killer"bullets,with teflon projectiles designed to replace the "old"armor piercing stuff that has been rattling around in the liberal brainpan housing for years.Maybey this is the "magic bullet"which really did the deed in Dallas.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 2:52:23 PM EDT
These must be the new"kop killer"bullets,with teflon projectiles designed to replace the "old"armor piercing stuff that has been rattling around in the liberal brainpan housing for years.Maybey this is the "magic bullet"which really did the deed in Dallas.
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