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Posted: 8/13/2003 10:02:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 10:09:52 PM EDT by rickinvegas]
....does someone have to be to make $40?

"Remember, for entertainment purposes only!"

I feel sorry for the poor guys that tries this and chews the crap out of his new shiney SAR with the "everyday steel wire" AND gets a ride to go "answer some questions" with Mr. Fed. LMFAO!!!!
If you really want a laugh, check out the feedback comments of the guys that bought these...."I was expecting more" and "no fool like an old fool"

check out the link:

cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=mikethedukeryan&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

Link Posted: 8/14/2003 3:29:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 6:55:48 AM EDT
Though if it works it would be nice to have the knowledge in the very remote possibility of a WTSHTF situation....


Now let it be known I would never try this as i would have no place to shoot it, hell i get questioned when i bump fire, and I am not wanting to goto jail as I enjoy my anal virginity...

But if the "solid waste excrement, ever does hit the rotary cooling device" you must remember there will be no laws........
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 7:13:17 AM EDT
If the S ever does HTF, have no fear, there will be no shortage of this type of knowledge. You would be suprised how many people know all about this kind of stuff, just in case.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 9:15:12 AM EDT
It'd be interesting to see how many people actually have the CNC software on a CD or FD somewhere hidden. If you had the material, dimensions and other parts right in front of you with the CNC machine, you could probably be DONE in an hour or three, depending a lot on your machine.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 9:45:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 10:07:38 AM EDT by sfcret]

Originally Posted By javven:
It'd be interesting to see how many people actually have the CNC software on a CD or FD somewhere hidden. If you had the material, dimensions and other parts right in front of you with the CNC machine, you could probably be DONE in an hour or three, depending a lot on your machine.



you don't even need that, a "lightening link" for a AR can be fashioned by bending a few angles, of some flat metal, and a file. a plan on how to do it is on the internet...and every gun show I ever went to

a bubba, with a third grade education can produce those in his basement ....come on now, you're giving these "folks" more technical knowledge, then they ever could actually have.

and even if bubba is so inept, just look at all the select fire M16 and AK parts....all you need there is a drill.
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 11:17:34 PM EDT
Just a quick question- why does everyone want to convert their rifle to FA when "TSHTF" ? I dont know about you but I'm not planning on enganging in any high volume fire-fights without a *good* supply train. Most military units arnt even taught how to properly use an automatic weapon, save for being rushed by a horde when your position is in danger of being over-run. If we're in a TSHTF scenario I'm going to want to make every shot count because once the 240 or so rounds I've been able to lug out with me is gone, I'd better either acqired a weapon from a JBT or be long gone one way or another. About the only realy *practical* automatic weapon for a defensive situation like ours would be a LMG or GPMG...at least as far as my understanding of tactics has brought me.

Oh, and incidently only criminals and subjects allow their government dictate to them what they may and may not posess in their own homes.

Live free or die.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 12:20:02 AM EDT
I would like to know how to convert my guns to FA. I may be a fool, but I believe in the Bill of Rights, and I will fight to protect it. I guarantee you I won't be going to jail.

Fuck the ATF. I think we should share this information with as many people as possible and encourage them to convert guns. If everyone had an 'illegal' gun, then they couldn't do jack shit to stop us from exercising our freedom, and maybe people would no longer cower in fear from this abusive government agency. Hell, some pussies are even afraid to exercise their 1st amendment right - "they might charge us with conspiracy!" Just like the fucking loyalists 230 years ago.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 12:29:56 AM EDT

Just a quick question- why does everyone want to convert their rifle to FA when "TSHTF" ? I dont know about you but I'm not planning on enganging in any high volume fire-fights without a *good* supply train.


In close quarters, full auto is almost necessary. If you are in a house, and you turn a corner, and then you and your enemy both see eachother at about the same time, he might pull his trigger a spilt second before you pull yours. If he's got a semi and you got a full-auto, you are capable of putting 10 bullets in his chest before he can fire off 2 rounds.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 1:38:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sunset04:

Just a quick question- why does everyone want to convert their rifle to FA when "TSHTF" ? I dont know about you but I'm not planning on enganging in any high volume fire-fights without a *good* supply train.


In close quarters, full auto is almost necessary. If you are in a house, and you turn a corner, and then you and your enemy both see eachother at about the same time, he might pull his trigger a spilt second before you pull yours. If he's got a semi and you got a full-auto, you are capable of putting 10 bullets in his chest before he can fire off 2 rounds.



Mmm, I disagree with you on tactics, a good shotgun with buck and ball is just as effective in this situation and need not be automatic. Subguns IMHO are good for well supplied armies and terrorists looking for a high body count in a crowded area where compact size counts.

I still dont see much use for an FA, especially when there are tons of other "illegal" mods that can be done to a post-ban SA firearm that will make it more effective- muzzle devices, folding stocks, suppressors, short barrel mods, etc.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 1:47:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2003 1:51:24 PM EDT by coltshorty14]

Originally Posted By RebelGray:
Just a quick question- why does everyone want to convert their rifle to FA when "TSHTF" ? I dont know about you but I'm not planning on enganging in any high volume fire-fights without a *good* supply train. Most military units arnt even taught how to properly use an automatic weapon, save for being rushed by a horde when your position is in danger of being over-run. If we're in a TSHTF scenario I'm going to want to make every shot count because once the 240 or so rounds I've been able to lug out with me is gone, I'd better either acqired a weapon from a JBT or be long gone one way or another. About the only realy *practical* automatic weapon for a defensive situation like ours would be a LMG or GPMG...at least as far as my understanding of tactics has brought me.

Oh, and incidently only criminals and subjects allow their government dictate to them what they may and may not posess in their own homes.

Live free or die.



FULL AUTO is ESSENTIAL to small unit tactics, The reason most army's dont even train there troops on full auto is shear numbers..You are correct a Division does not need full autos. there tactic is to out number there enemy..

A 4-12 man team needs to place amximum effect down range in a little time so they can high tail it. lets face it your small unit is not going to tangle with a Platoon of troops, but what you are going to do is scare the living hell out of them so you can get away..

SO in a SHTF situation I seriously doubt you are going to have a Division at your dispolal, I know I woulnt so yes I do belive I would like to have a FULL AUTO at my disposal since I dont even have a Platoon!!!!

P.S. You don't plan on engaging any high volume fire fights, just like I did'nt paln on having to work 4 extra hours today but SHIT HAPPENS.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 1:54:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2003 1:55:30 PM EDT by coltshorty14]

Originally Posted By RebelGray:

Originally Posted By Sunset04:

Just a quick question- why does everyone want to convert their rifle to FA when "TSHTF" ? I dont know about you but I'm not planning on enganging in any high volume fire-fights without a *good* supply train.


In close quarters, full auto is almost necessary. If you are in a house, and you turn a corner, and then you and your enemy both see eachother at about the same time, he might pull his trigger a spilt second before you pull yours. If he's got a semi and you got a full-auto, you are capable of putting 10 bullets in his chest before he can fire off 2 rounds.



Mmm, I disagree with you on tactics, a good shotgun with buck and ball is just as effective in this situation and need not be automatic. Subguns IMHO are good for well supplied armies and terrorists looking for a high body count in a crowded area where compact size counts.

I still dont see much use for an FA, especially when there are tons of other "illegal" mods that can be done to a post-ban SA firearm that will make it more effective- muzzle devices, folding stocks, suppressors, short barrel mods, etc.



What is scarier. When some one shouts"there is a man with a muzzle break", or "there is a man with a machine gun"
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 1:57:18 PM EDT
There is a whole lot of fantasy in this thread.

Bob

Link Posted: 8/16/2003 3:09:51 PM EDT
I don't think small units and special operations forces fire FA any more then conventional troops. Aimed fire will always win over hosing, with the exception of dedicated light MGs. I don't think there's anything you can do with a full auto AK that you can't do with a semi-auto one except waist more ammo.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 3:22:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJjer_Bullets:
I don't think small units and special operations forces fire FA any more then conventional troops. Aimed fire will always win over hosing, with the exception of dedicated light MGs. I don't think there's anything you can do with a full auto AK that you can't do with a semi-auto one except waist more ammo.





Not to rain on your parade, but if this were true no military in the world would purchase anything full auto. Doesn't seem to be the case, does it?
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 5:12:03 PM EDT
I'm not saying that FA isn't a usefull function, I'm just saying that it isn't integral to the role of most rifles in combat. It's a nice thing to have on an infantry rifle, but from everything I've heard and read, I don't think I'd I was at a disadvantage without it. Light machineguns and SMGs are a different story...
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 6:06:51 PM EDT
FA is all about volume of fire, correct? Well, last I counted in a TSHTF situation there will be about two dozen JBTs or more, and you and maybe two or three other people, therefore, there is no way in hell you CANNOT win a volume of fire "argument" unless you're packing an MG-42 or a M249.

In the end I've decided however, that I cannot in good faith carry out my oath to protect and defend the Constitution of these United States if I at the same time support the Un-constitutional edicts penned by people who are very obviously enemies to our way of life. That means I cannot support, in good faith, things like the AWB, nor encourage others to adhear to it or support it.

In the end that means I, more than your usual gun-toting joe, face the reality that my end may be at the hands of a JBT team. Could be tonight, could be 20 years from now.

But being face-to-face with the Allmighty scares me a lot less than spending the rest of my days in a prison, so any weapon that will increase my chance of surviving an encounter is something that interests me. After owning a Class III (Cobray M11) and being trained in small unit tactics by Uncle Sam on a couple of different occasions (as a ROTC advanced cadet and as a PfC at Ft.Knox this last Winter/Spring...) full-auto firepower in any weapon smaller than a GPMG, unless you're shooting into a mass of people, is kind of usless to me.

Could it be of more use to someone else? Sure, but I dont have the training, and neither do most folks....
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 10:29:21 PM EDT
When two enemies are face to face at point blank range, split seconds will determine who comes out alive. Putting 1 bullet in his stomach isn't going to stop him from pulling the trigger. Having a cobray M-11 that can put 5 slugs in his chest in the blink of an eye might save your life.

Now if I am engaging enemies out to a hundred yards, then semi or burst would be better, but inside a house or a building, full-auto is the way to go. And of course you still have to aim.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 11:23:53 PM EDT
I still am not sold on your CQB argument. If you're ever in the neighborhood, or a convenient neighboring Class III state, I'd love to get togather with you at a 3-gun match and test it out though....

I've got my Uzi, and I know how to convert it in about 10 minutes with hand tools, so I'm not completely unprepared for my argument being wrong, but I still think my CQB shotgun would be a better choice in a civilian-survivalist situation.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 12:42:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2003 12:46:16 PM EDT by Sunset04]
Perhaps a shotgun would be better, but semi rifle vs auto rifle, I would take the auto. With my SAR-1, I have to re-aim everytime I pull the trigger. So that means to shoot a guy 3 times, I have to aim 3 times. I would rather just put one burst on him and move on to the next guy.

I also have a cobray m-11, but it's a closed bolt semi. It's pretty much useless as a semi except for the 30 round mag. I mean I might as well get a glock for practical use. Once I figure out how to convert it, I will probably do it and keep it well hidden, or maybe just leave it semi knowing I can convert it in 10 minutes. I am in the dirty south anyway and most people here wouldn't care if they found out about it, although, I am still not sure if it's even possible to convert the closed-bolt m-11.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 5:27:20 PM EDT
Dude, I know what you are aiming for with your argument, but your SAR1 argument made me laugh. Have you ever actually shot a FA AK? My suggetion is to rent one some time....7.62x39 in an auto mode is VERY difficult to control. Even shooting from the hip I've got to REALY STRUGGLE to keep more than five rounds on a boulder the size of a Cadillac. Now you tell me you're going to fire a burst into a man sized target under combat duress with one? One shot one kill dude, make the first round count and you dont need the other group. With a Mp-5 or a Uzi I'll buy your argument a little more, but you're still going to send a lot of stray led.

Look at the Hollywood Shootout, they were shooting AKs optomized for automatic fire, heavy drums, foregrips, and the guys were bodybuilders, BIG guys, and they sprayed hundreds of rounds for only may be half a dozen hits. Once again, automatic fire is realy over-rated. Even the three round burst on my National Guard issue M4 is fun but pretty usless for a tanker in a real combat situation. I'd prefer a Semi-Auto FAL carbine to be perfectly honest.

As for the Cobray....heh, very very easy. Fix the firing pin, and install a trigger that acts as a bolt stop, holding it to the rear. A slightly stiffer recoil spring, and it'll blaze on 'till you burn the barrel out.

SMGs are the EASIEST class of firearms to build, in comparison a semi-auto is far more difficult to manage.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 2:57:06 AM EDT
On the subject of full auto:

I am an active duty GI, and serve in communications support for Army Special Forces (basically the guy at the other end of the radio when they are in the field). I get to train with them also, though not as much as they do. Been doing it for almost 8 years now. I thought I would chime in.

All the training I have done with them, I have almost never been taught to use full auto on my M-4A1 carbine. The only situation is during break contact drills, when you put down as much lead as possible to get away. You want to keep the enemy's head down, and also make him think there are more of you then there really are. During normal field operations, semi only. If you need full auto supressing fire, well thats what the M-249 SAW and M-240 machine gun are for.

During CQB training, same thing. Semi only. Quick aimed fire. Normally a "controlled pair" to the chest, and one to the head if the enemy is using body armor. Full auto is a waste of ammo. Also difficult to control in that you might hit an innoccent bystander, your own team member, richochet rounds off a concrete floor, etc.

In a magical fantasy SHTF deal, even more of a concern. The Govt will regain control sooner or later. Then you will have to explain why you shot the Jones next door along with the armed looter. As well as your NFA violation.

As for speed, most of the SF guys who do it all the time can go from the ready position to putting aimed semi fire centermass in under a second. Probably takes the average person more then that just to get the safety off on their AK.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 5:52:20 AM EDT

Dude, I know what you are aiming for with your argument, but your SAR1 argument made me laugh. Have you ever actually shot a FA AK? My suggetion is to rent one some time....7.62x39 in an auto mode is VERY difficult to control. Even shooting from the hip I've got to REALY STRUGGLE to keep more than five rounds on a boulder the size of a Cadillac. Now you tell me you're going to fire a burst into a man sized target under combat duress with one? One shot one kill dude, make the first round count and you dont need the other group. With a Mp-5 or a Uzi I'll buy your argument a little more, but you're still going to send a lot of stray led.

Look at the Hollywood Shootout, they were shooting AKs optomized for automatic fire, heavy drums, foregrips, and the guys were bodybuilders, BIG guys, and they sprayed hundreds of rounds for only may be half a dozen hits. Once again, automatic fire is realy over-rated. Even the three round burst on my National Guard issue M4 is fun but pretty usless for a tanker in a real combat situation. I'd prefer a Semi-Auto FAL carbine to be perfectly honest.



The only full-auto rifle I've shot is an SKS, and yes I know it's hard to control. I'm not talking about fighting at 50 or even 25 yards like the N. Hollywood shootout. I'm talking about close quarters inside a house, where a guy is standing 5 feet in front of you with a gun pointed at you. Now I've never tested this, but I doubt shooting him one time is going to make him instantly drop his gun and die. I totally agree that using full-auto for anything over 25 yards is just a waste, but when the enemy is right around the corner and close enough to stab you with a knife, split-seconds and lighting quick reactions are going to matter, and a fast cyclic rate could save your ass. One shot, one kill at longer distances is great, but people usually don't die instantly from one gunshot wound and can probably still manage to aim and shoot someone standing right in front of them before they die, so you'd really want to totally destroy your target as quick as possible, and like you said, a 12 ga would also be good for this.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 11:38:31 AM EDT
The problem is that a select fire sks was never made.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 12:18:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RebelGray:

Look at the Hollywood Shootout, they were shooting AKs optomized for automatic fire, heavy drums, foregrips, and the guys were bodybuilders, BIG guys, and they sprayed hundreds of rounds for only may be half a dozen hits. Once again, automatic fire is realy over-rated.




Rebel

You just agreed with my statement with yours. I'm not trying to say you can hit anything worth a shit with a FA AK, thats not what I am getting at. Those two guys may have only had a half dozen hits. BUT they did manage to keep 50 or better armed LAPD Officers at bay for almost an hour, THAT would have NEVER happened with a semi AK.

And as far as all the talk of GPMG's in a SHTFS, I own two 1919a4 kits in 8mm, with over 10,000 round of ammo, and my buddy own two 80% right side plate and about 6000 rounds. everything is perfectly legal, and easy to make hot if the poop fly's!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 1:58:19 PM EDT
1919s are great guns. Shot a few in AZ. Never liked the little skinny barrel (always thought it'd look better with a water jacket) but they shoot like a bat outta hell.

How hard is a 1919 80% to complete? I mean are we talking dremil and drill press, or a laith and a machine press?
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 8:18:34 PM EDT
If TSHTF, screw full auto; I want a flamethrower, they are still non-licensced and legal AFAIK.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 11:22:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bulletslap:
If TSHTF, screw full auto; I want a flamethrower, they are still non-licensced and legal AFAIK.



Yup there are unrestricted, I'm gonna buy one, Its a brand new Chinese Type 47 flamethrower..I can get it for $950..The only thing is the guy doesnt have any pressure cartidges with it, as soon as i can find one or figure out how to rig it, shes mine...

Ps when I was 10 they could be had from a farm supply catalog, fully reconditioned US Military models for like 75 bucks or so..My Dad wouldnt buy me one, damn...That still hurts, I put that right up with the SIG551 he wouldnt buy me and it wasnt even a grand...
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