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Posted: 8/13/2003 8:32:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 10:50:16 AM EDT by USMC03]
Hey guys,


I know the 5.45 vs 7.62 thing has been already been beaten to death, but this has a new twist to it.

I have a buddy that loves the AK platform. He is wanting to get TWO (2) identical AKs and then stock up on as much ammo and mags as his finances allow.

He wants two of the exact same model AK so if one gets damaged, stolen, is away for repairs, etc. he will still have a back up rifle.

He will use this AK for 3 gun matches, plinking, carbine / rifle classes, SHTF gun, used for survival hunting if the need arises, trunk gun, etc.

He told me that he want's a rifle that is readily avalible on the market and IS NOT interested in getting a preban rifle.

So the question is, if you only had one rifle (that being an AK of some sort) which one would it be and which caliber would you pick.

******EDITED TO ADD*********


I forgot some info in my initail post. I had too many things going on at the same time when I wrote the first post....So my focus was not totally on what I was writting.

My buddy has sold ALL of his rifles and wants to get (2) identical rifle in the same caliber. He wants the ideal rifle / caliber that will do everything for his needs, basically his one and only "Go to" rifle. He has settled on the AK platform for the type of rifle that he wants but doesn't know which caliber or model he should get. I have already given him my thoughts on the subject but thought I would post the info here so we could get a more diverse opinion.

My buddy is looking for the one rifle that is the jack of all trades and the master of none. He is looking for ONE rifle / caliber combo that will fill all of his rifle needs, again he has settled on the AK platform, but wants more info on which manufacturer and caliber he should go with. He is a smart spender and understands that quality costs money. He is trying to take thing like avalibilty of ammo, mags, parts, etc. into account in this decision.


So if you could only have ONE AK what would it be and what caliber would it be in (again something that is readily avalible on the US market and not a preban)


Thanks in advance



Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:42:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 8:43:18 AM EDT by jrmc75]
7.62 would be my choice. Ammo's really plentiful and dirt cheap, and the round is very similar ballistically to the 30-30, a proven and popular hunting cartridge.

MHO

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:44:07 AM EDT
First off, I'd go with an AR for all kinds of reasons based on what you've stated above.

For an AK, 7.62. Ready supply of parts, mags and ammo.

I'd go with a stamped rec rifle due to weight constraints but the SAM-7's are great rifles from everything I hear.

MAK-90
SAR-1
SA-85M

Not necessarily in that order. The Hungarian would be my first choice but will be more expensive. The SAR would be my choice now if on a budget and their QC is much improved it would seem.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:44:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:57:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 9:17:38 AM EDT
For matches and hunting the 7.62 would be the better choice. All other factors listed, I would go with the 5.45.

An SAR-1 would be good enough and sheap enough to buy two.

The SAM-7 would be a much nicer choice, but much heavier.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 11:00:35 AM EDT
MORE INFO ADDED:

******EDITED TO ADD*********


I forgot some info in my initail post. I had too many things going on at the same time when I wrote the first post....So my focus was not totally on what I was writting.

My buddy has sold ALL of his rifles and wants to get (2) identical rifle in the same caliber. He wants the ideal rifle / caliber that will do everything for his needs, basically his one and only "Go to" rifle. He has settled on the AK platform for the type of rifle that he wants but doesn't know which caliber or model he should get. I have already given him my thoughts on the subject but thought I would post the info here so we could get a more diverse opinion.

My buddy is looking for the one rifle that is the jack of all trades and the master of none. He is looking for ONE rifle / caliber combo that will fill all of his rifle needs, again he has settled on the AK platform, but wants more info on which manufacturer and caliber he should go with. He is a smart spender and understands that quality costs money. He is trying to take thing like avalibilty of ammo, mags, parts, etc. into account in this decision.


So if you could only have ONE AK what would it be and what caliber would it be in (again something that is readily avalible on the US market and not a preban)




CAMPY,

Most of the matches here are paper IPSC targets and steel gongs, so he doesn't need to worry about knocking over steel targets.

My buddy is not real interested in optics. Just wants (2) identical AKs that will fill all his needs. This will be the only 2 rifles he owns.


DRJARHEAD,

I agree with you on your commment about the AR, but my buddy is a diehard AK fan and doesn't care for the AR. I've got a MAK-90, 2 SA M-7's, a SAR-2, and a VEPR K. Overall he likes the VEPR and really likes the SA M-7 but he's really hung up on he caliber thing. He has owned AKs in 7.62, 5.45, and 5.56...he really likes the 5.45 but doesn't know if that's the round that will fill all of his needs, but at the same time he likes the 7.62 because he has a wider selection of rifles to choose from and ammo and mags are more readily avalible.

Thanks in advance

Link Posted: 8/13/2003 11:08:06 AM EDT
What size game would he be hunting. 7.62 is big for rabbit, but small for moose etc...
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 11:20:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
What size game would he be hunting. 7.62 is big for rabbit, but small for moose etc...




It would be whatever he could get a shot at to put food in his tummy....The only hunting he would do is in a last ditch survival situation. He's not an avid hunter but knows how to put food on the table if he has to. Most of what he would find here in Colorado would be from rabbits to elk.


Link Posted: 8/13/2003 11:54:44 AM EDT
Unless your state has a law against hunting with .22 caliber weapons, I would then go with the 5.45.

In a survival situation you are rarely going to bring down an elk, and even the 7.62 would be light for that. Smaller animals are easier to get and allow for a smaller caliber.

5.45 is lighter, more accurate, and very effective on small game out to ranges he would be shooting at.

It would be better for matches as well due to the reasons Campy mentioned.

Ammo and accessories are almost as cheap and easy to get as the 7.62.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 1:35:07 PM EDT
"Most of the matches here are paper IPSC targets and steel gongs, so he doesn't need to worry about knocking over steel targets.

My buddy is not real interested in optics. Just wants (2) identical AKs that will fill all his needs. This will be the only 2 rifles he owns."

For increased range, accuracy (4moa vs 2.5moa ballpark) and fast follow up shots, get a smallbore AK. If he has any SHTF issues for ammo supply, get 5.56 and accept the hunt to stock up on $20 5.56 mags (Weiger or Bulgy waffle depending on which gun he gets). Otherwise get 5.45, buy ammo in several case lots at a time and enjoy fine $5 used bakelight mags.
For fast targeting, and accuracy at least as good as typical stock AK, get a Kobra if his matches allow optics.

Based on what you said so far, I'll suggest the 20" VEPR 5.56 AK.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 1:47:47 PM EDT
RS,

Thanks for the reply, he's had AKs in .223 and the mag issue is why he is not even considering a .223 AK. He's got it narrowed down to the 5.45 and 7.62.39.

I told him I think he'd be better off with the 5.45 in one of the new Global Trades SSR-74s.....He likes the idea, but is still kind of stuck on the 7.62.....I guess what I'm looking for is opinions and facts of which caliber and rifle that would be best suited for his needs.

All info and opinions are welcome and appriciated.

Link Posted: 8/13/2003 2:43:52 PM EDT
Jeff,
IMHO I'd go with the 7.62x39 for one reason (and it relates to SHTF).

Ammo availability. Right now 7.62x39 is produced in the US, and one of the 2 really decent performing 7.62x39 rounds is made in the US (a Winchester SP load). Also (depending on your idea of SHTF) if your friend ever has to reload its going to be easier to find .30-.32 caliber bullets for reloading than the 5.45 rounds used in the smaller caliber.

I would also point out while 7.62x39 FMJ doesn't have the best terminal ballistics it does have excellent penetration. Poachers have been known to use it against elephants (lots of small holes that make it to the vitals) so using it against elk or moose isn't out of the questions (not the best - but I'd feel more comfortable using the 7.62sov than the 5.45sove against that kind of critter).
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 3:42:30 PM EDT
I have several AK's in 7.62x39 but only one in 5.45x39.My first thought would be to advise you to get 2 SAR-1's,these are great AK's for the money and come equipped with the scope mount.You stated a dis-interest in optics but its always good to keep your options open.Ammo and mags are readily avalable for both calibers althiouh 7.62 ammo is much more common.On the other hand most Countries,currently in conflict,are using more AK 74s.The claim is 5.45 shoots farther and flatter than the 7.62.I live in a heavily forested mountain environment and for me the 7.62x39 seems to be the best choice.If you live in a more open area or expect to operate in a more open area I would recommend the 5.45x39.Good luck with your decision.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 3:52:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 6:29:38 PM EDT by Tracker]
Sam-7S would be a great choice.

If your friend is worried about his rifles being stolen, he should keep them locked up in different gun safes. Most of us have all of our goodies locked up in one location.

Edited to add a wink.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 9:53:32 AM EDT
I think my friend's biggest hang up right now is deciding between the 7.62x39 or the 5.45x39.

Any info that you could provide to push him in one direction or the other would be appriciated. And I've already tried the "Get one of each" route and he still just wants just one caliber.


Thanks again guys.

Link Posted: 8/17/2003 1:17:34 PM EDT
Arsenal Inc. SA-M7S.

Best over the counter AK on the market and 7.62x39mm is cheap, readily available even if supply was cut off from Russia (can't be said of 5.45mm) and with the proper bullet has the same energy as a .30-30 WCF, so taking up to medium/large game would not be a problem.
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