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Posted: 8/2/2003 3:49:22 PM EDT
I swear i go to gun shows just to get ta good laugh...

Example: I was at a FUNNY show tring to sell a mint Howa AR-180...It's gone so don't ask, anyways a dealer looks at it my asking price was 1100, Fair in my opinion....He offers me $650, now i know dealers have to make money but come on this was from a man who had a used in the box, 80-85% norinco underfolder for $3200...What an ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!


AND THEN THERE ARE THE INTERNET WIENIES

EXAMPLE... http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976373050.htm

I love how a SAR-2 will "develope" trigger slap and it will cost you big that is whay you should buy his over priced butt hle stock gun....

Sorry to rant but come on DEALERS QUIT acting like used car saleman, also know as the dirtiest scum on earth..

Thanks for listening I just had to get this off my chest...Yes I do feel better.......
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 4:46:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 5:44:12 PM EDT by sfcret]
yeah sometimes the admission to get in is worth the laughs you can get......I went to the dayton show a couple of weekends ago, and saw a AKM built on a OOW receiver....the "dealer" had a tag on it, rare pre-ban ITM AK47 800 dollars, I just laughed when I saw that, and shook my head.

besides the illegal "pre-bans" being offered the best funnies is all the bullshit that comes out of their mouth. I swear they should issue hip waders at the front door, just so you can walk down the aisles without getting bullshit on your shoes and pants.

I can't count the many times they spewed out "rare" when describing a POS rifle that looks like it's been dragged from one end of the planet,to the other with pitted and shot out bore....... only thing "rare" about those is the maintenance and care that went into taking care of it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:18:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:52:18 PM EDT
Equally as sad are the newbies who believe them. All the bullshit is gosple untill they find out better. Then, when they discover just how bad they've been taken, it leaves a bitter taste in their mouth that will never quite leave. A smaller profit and a guy that comes back again and again, and tells his friends too, is a much much better idea.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 6:23:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
like i've said for 25 years.

some of the biggest assholes in the world are in the firearms business.



Being a dealer, I have to say in my 12 years of dealing with them, Campy is right.Two weeks ago I saw a lovely " Rare Spanish Jungle Carbine" for $350.

It was an FR-8 that can be bought for $150 anywhere. I could write pages on this.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 8:20:53 PM EDT
Today my dealer tried to tell me that my Hi-Cap WASR-10 was illegal and I should get rid of it immediatly. Im not mad because they were looking out for me, but come on. They are for sale everywhere.

Link Posted: 8/3/2003 1:43:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 4:59:08 AM EDT

yeah sometimes the admission to get in is worth the laughs you can get......I went to the dayton show a couple of weekends ago, and saw a AKM built on a OOW receiver....the "dealer" had a tag on it, rare pre-ban ITM AK47 800 dollars, I just laughed when I saw that, and shook my head.


Saw that one too. What an asshole! The bad thing is, some uniformed shmuck will buy and get into all kinds of shit.

The best question I ever heard from a "customer" was the following.

We were set up at the Dayton show at Hara. Chuck{300_yd_clean} was approached by a typical "gang banger" type. He was looking at a MAC, I belive. The exchange went something like this:

GB: How many this shoot?

C: What?

GB: how many this shoot?

C: As many as you want it to.

GB No, no. How many in the mag?

C: 32.

GB: Will it shoot through a school bus?

C: Get the fuck out of here!


That's the best/worst one I have herad in a long time.

Mike


Link Posted: 8/3/2003 5:55:24 AM EDT
You guys want a good one. last gun show i went to there was guy selling a polytech folder, he wanted $4000 for this rare pre-ban gun. now at the time i was looking for one of these but for 4k come on now. three or four tables away from him was a guy selling the exact same gun for $1,100. Didn't have the cash and I wish i did i would have bought it. I told the guy i didn't have the cash to pick it up he offered to hold onto it for me, but i told him to get rid of it if he wanted to as the only other gun like it at the show was overpriced by almost 3grand. He went over and checked it out and came back laughing his ass off.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 6:17:38 AM EDT
I LOVE to go to gun shows and hunt for the post-ban AR's configured as pre-ban, illegally. I even go so far (sometimes) as to bring printed serial lists from the major manufacturers so I can back it up if I quietly tell a dealer that he has an illegally configured rifle. And of course, it's good to carry a printed copy of 18 U.S.C. 922(v).

Illegal gun hunting is fun!

CJ
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 7:01:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dennysguns:
I have done a lot of gun shows in my time and there is humor on both sides of the table.




Just to jump on the band wagon.........

Some of my favorites.

"Hey, I just bought this gun, I don't know what caliber it is, do you have any?"

"My husband has this gun at home, it is a 38 (or 32) something, do you have ammo for it?"

"You sold me the wrong ammo. This won't fit in my revolver" (handing me back a box of 357 sig).
"Sir, this is what you handed me to buy, you did not ask what it was for."
"Give me a refund, you gave me the wrong ammo."

My gun says 9mm Lugar, you sold me 9mm Parabellum, give me the right ammo you idiot."

"WTF, you don't pay tax at gun shows!"

"Got any of them bullets that will kill people with one shot even if you hit them in the finger?"

Do you have any .410 shells that will feed better through my .30-06 than the ones I am useing now?" (I hear this a lot, WTF is wrong with people?)

"I am not buying that F'ing foreign made ammo!"

"I wanna kill somthin', whats the best thing you got for that?"

"That POS Black Hills match you sold me shot like shit in my Mini-14, I want a refund!"

"Don't tell me what this ammo is good for son, I have been shooting longer than you have been alive."

"Can I put one (a round) in the chamber to see if it is the right caliber?"

"Why the hell would I want a .45acp. Its a dead caliber, got any 10mm?"................

This is only a few.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 7:17:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By coltshorty14:
I swear i go to gun shows just to get ta good laugh...

Example: I was at a FUNNY show tring to sell a mint Howa AR-180...It's gone so don't ask, anyways a dealer looks at it my asking price was 1100, Fair in my opinion....He offers me $650, now i know dealers have to make money but come on this was from a man who had a used in the box, 80-85% norinco underfolder for $3200...What an ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!


AND THEN THERE ARE THE INTERNET WIENIES

EXAMPLE... http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976373050.htm

I love how a SAR-2 will "develope" trigger slap and it will cost you big that is whay you should buy his over priced butt hle stock gun....

Sorry to rant but come on DEALERS QUIT acting like used car saleman, also know as the dirtiest scum on earth..

Thanks for listening I just had to get this off my chest...Yes I do feel better.......



Reading Gunsamerica ads is big time fun. Speaking of AR-180's, one dealer has had one advertised for over two years !! Guess many of them are looking for the 'greater fool'.

Still there are a few deals to be had even on G/A. I found my Krebs AK-101 for $725 shipped there complete with scope and four new mags !! (Talked with the boys at Krebs about the gun and they had also seen the ad and confirmed the guy had paid $1165.)
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 7:54:58 AM EDT
If that AR180 was a Sterling built gun.....

$750.00 would be right.

Link Posted: 8/3/2003 8:20:54 AM EDT
I had a fun one yesterday. A dealer tried to tell me the SSR-85C on his table had a made in the USA receiver, despite me pointing out the blatant "Made in Hungary" printed on the side. He said that was an import stamp. Ok, import an American made receiver and stamp Made in Hungary on the side, WTF? Maybe his eyes were hurting with all the gold plated Desert Eagles on the table across the aisle, poor schmuck

Schulze
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 6:53:54 PM EDT
Its not only dealers. Have ya'll ever noticed how rude some folks are on some of these gun web sites? I recently bought an ATV and before I did I cruised the ATV sites since I was very new to ATVs. I noticed that most of the folks on those sites could have disagreements without resorting to name calling. Everybody was helpfull and didn't bitch about me asking newbie questions. I notice on the gun sites, newbies are often told in a smartass manner to do a search on a old topics. Now, if someone is rude on a site I don't even reply. I have a feeling that most of these internet badasses would not be that way in person. Just to let ya'll now I'm not ranting about this site. The vast majority of people here are heplfull, the AR side of this site may be another story. Rant off.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 7:23:53 PM EDT
Oh yeah, you've got to "prove" yourself to a lot of people in the gun industry. Until you have proven yourself (anyone know how?) you will always be an intruder, bothering people with stupid questions. It doesn't matter that you might lay down $200-1000 dollars on a rifle if you like it enough. It's even worse when you're fresh out of high-school like me and my friends. Gunshop owners just assume you came to gawk at the guns. Was that way at my local place until I brought Bushmaster in and asked them if they could rebarrel it. Since then I've been a valued costumer.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 8:07:09 PM EDT
I saw a dealer trying to sell kit built FALs (G-1s I think) for $1000.00.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 9:02:51 PM EDT
The Bill Goodmans Gun and Knife show at Hara Arena sucks major wienie, STAY AWAY unless you dont mind wasting 6 bucks to get in to kill some time and get a few good laughs.

And I quote:

ALL Norincos are preban!

I carried an M-60 in the army, and they
are .60 caliber, don't tell me my business boy
I killed more gooks than you ever seen!

PSG 1s come with an electronic scope that figures the wind and distance out for you, all
you have to do is put the cross hairs on em
and pull the trigger!

Which bullets are the cop killer bullets?

My daddy was a (Pick One) sniper, paratrooper
green beret, navy seal,army ranger, spetznaz
selous scout,albanian navy, lithuanian
frogman ad nauseum!

If AKs are so good, hows come they dont cost
as much as AR-15s!

I remember when you could get those for (Pick
one) 25$, three for a dollar, they came free
in cracker jack boxes.

Whats your bottom dollar on that?(Translated to mean: If I cant bend you over, I'm not interested in buying it)

Gots lots more, someone elses turn.

Chuck
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 11:26:18 PM EDT
My favorite is the WW2 AK-47's...about every 3 shows I find one of these incredibly rare time-traveling rifles.

I usually just end it by "asking": didn't W2 end in 1945? And say AK-47 several times prior to walking away.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 2:27:23 AM EDT
I’m kinda new here and just wandered over from the AR side but I saw this thread and wanted to vent a little too.

I too enjoy some of the stupid things dealers do and I have never stepped up and mentioned anything as I usually feel it is the buyers responsibility to know what they’re getting into but this was a bit different.

I was at a local fun show this weekend and happened by a table where there was a young guy (turns out he was 14) looking to have his mom get him his first deer rifle. He was looking at a Marlin 30-30 and the dealer was going on about how great and special his rifle was. It was priced at $345 and the dealer was saying how the camo nylon sling was worth $40 to $50 alone. At this point I just mentioned there was an almost identical rifle for $275 down another isle and he could pick the sling up elsewhere.

The mother and son left, as did I, the dealer wasn’t too happy. Maybe I shouldn’t have said anything and the kid should have done his homework before going to the show, but when some sleazy dealer is going after a kid and his mom just to make a few extra bucks that really burns me. I just think it’s very important to get the younger generation involved with shooting and hunting, and really despise those folks who seem to think it’s ALL about that extra buck. Thanks for letting me rant.

Best regards, J

Favorites:

This Rifle (H&R or International Harvester Garand) was at Normandy and I have proof…

Is that weaponing an X? Oh it’s a Y, I’m looking for an X but I’ll give you 1/3 of what it’s worth because it’s a Y.

Guys that want to charge you sales tax but don’t have you fill out a 4473.

AR “Well the lower is post-ban, but the upper is pre-ban so it’s all legal.”

Pre-ban Ruger 10/22 ten round mags.

I saw Doc Holliday’s ’92 Winchester at a show. Really.


Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:32:09 AM EDT
Anyone ever notice how many PSG-1's are floating around the shows? You know the kind, the one with Century parts and a few cosmetic pieces changed?

Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:22:28 AM EDT
And there is this $1,400 Romak3/4x24 scope combo that has been on some guy's rack for months. If they can get it from somebody who refuses to do their homework, fine. But the number of guys who insist on being taken seriously 100% correct and put on a full attitude for non-safety issues is amazing. Like the bandit at NE Ohio shows who last winter told me that Special Weapons has such fanatical QC that they even fix things that were not to spec from HK when they build their guns. It was hard not to drop the G3 I had just picked up.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 7:22:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 7:24:33 AM EDT by drobs]
Work at a gun shop / range in Chicago area, constantly here:

"I was in Russian Army."

If you hear that and you are on the range, get away quick!




Link Posted: 8/5/2003 10:49:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 10:56:49 PM EDT by Lockedon]

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
like i've said for 25 years.

some of the biggest assholes in the world are in the firearms business.




How fucking true!

This I find funny: Couple months ago one of my friends was looking for an 8mm mauser to buy. We went to this gun store, and this guy only had one mauser in stock. Now due to my friends tight budget i suggested he should look for a turkish mauser. When i asked the clerk, him and his son, started telling (more like yelling) me what a worthless piece of shit turkish mausers are. (I've had access, and shot one for as long as i was able to pick one up, never once had a complaint)
Then he started bullshitting me about how incredible Swedish mausers are (which he happend to have exclusivly in stock), and according to him, i quote "they were taking down Germans in WWII at 200 yards!!!"
First of all, the mauser is an axis design from WWI, so why would they be shooting germans?
Secondly, I don't recall reading (something he prolly never does) in history of any swedish battles against the germans during WWII
Thirdly, under combat stress, hitting a moving target at 200 yards with a bolt action mauser is a little far fetched to me.
Last but not least, if you want to sell your fucking shit, you don't yell at your potential customer and basically call them stupid.
I'm really tired of all these gun-dealers being so full of themselves (prolly because they're armed and feel powerful). There are a few really good ones out there (that i know of), and those are the only guys i do business with. Regardless of how much more they may charge.

FYI, the store with the assholes for dealers is called
Coat of Arms
Palm Beach Blvd.
Fort Myers, Florida.

I've permanently boycotted those assholes. And i've bought 9 guns within the last 6 months. I hope they read this, and i hope all of you that live there will boycott them as well. There is a very professional, friendly, and affordable guy on Ciquita (sp?)blvd. in Cape Coral. Ciquita Guns i think his store is called. Go there instead!


ARRRGGGG!!!!! Now i'm pissed off! I hate bad gun dealers with passion!!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 11:40:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 11:43:03 PM EDT by obershutze916]

Originally Posted By Lockedon:
How fucking true!

This I find funny: Couple months ago one of my friends was looking for an 8mm mauser to buy. We went to this gun store, and this guy only had one mauser in stock. Now due to my friends tight budget i suggested he should look for a turkish mauser. When i asked the clerk, him and his son, started telling (more like yelling) me what a worthless piece of shit turkish mausers are. (I've had access, and shot one for as long as i was able to pick one up, never once had a complaint)



In the world of Mauser collectors this is true, but the guy is a complete idiot for telling you this, or in this manor. They are serviceable rifles.



Then he started bullshitting me about how incredible Swedish mausers are (which he happend to have exclusivly in stock),


Very true, also convienet for him.


and according to him, i quote "they were taking down Germans in WWII at 200 yards!!!"


The Swedes were on the side of the Germans to the extent of allowing volunteers to join. The LJ42 was designed as warning to keep the Germans from invading.


First of all, the mauser is an axis design from WWI,


The Mauser outdates the Axis by a long time. The first models came out in 1892.The 98 action came out in 1898.


Secondly, I don't recall reading (something he prolly never does) in history of any swedish battles against the germans during WWII


There were none.


Thirdly, under combat stress, hitting a moving target at 200 yards with a bolt action mauser is a little far fetched to me.


Standard practice was to open fire all weapons at 600 meters. I assure you it can be done,and done quite well. Many German soldiers will telll you that the "Mauser doesn't start shooting until 300 meters."


Last but not least, if you want to sell your fucking shit, you don't yell at your potential customer and basically call them stupid.


Very true.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 12:00:33 AM EDT
Heh, I recently went to a gunshow to sell off an AR. Walked up to a table that actually had an FN Tactical Shotgun that I'd been looking for for quite some time.

I ask the guy behind the table a few questions about it, and ask if they'd consider taking trades. He asked what it was, and said they might, if I brought it in to show them.

I told them I'd finish looking around the show and then go get my gun for them to look at. I had handled and inspected the shotgun and distinctly saw a price of $675 on it.

When I came back 10 minutes later with my gun, the shotgun had a $695 sticker on it, hah... but when I flipped it back over, it still had the $675 sticker, too. The higher priced sticker didn't look like it matched the rest of the stickers on their guns and stuff...

Anyhow, I haggled a little, they weren't very open to bargaining, and only came down a couple bucks.

When I got home that night, I found their business card in my box, and realized it was one of the dealers on this site who sells those... For $675.

They were gonna send me the manual, since they couldn't find it at the show. Still haven't heard any replies to email or IM... and no manual yet.

I'm begenning to think there is no such thing as a "good" gun dealer. Or perhaps my standards/expectations are just too high.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 3:34:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 7:45:24 AM EDT
Swede Mausers were used by the Finns and Swede volunteers in Finnland during the WWII period. Not only used against Russians, the Finns did fight some German troops near the end of the War. While Sweden was neutral, it was not passive. Swedes would fire on troops tresspassing.

Yes, Swede Mausers were used on Germans, but mostly in the service to Finnland.

Mausers were used by Balkan forces in fighting Germans. Poland manufactured Mausers and they, too, shot Germans. Mausers were used by many partisan forces versus Germans. Lithuania, by no means a significant combatant, was overrun by the Germans. They were armed with Mausers that the Germans confiscated and armed their own troops.

Mausers, Mosins, Arisakas, Carcani, Enfields, Steyrs, and many other weapons were used by and against the same people.

Link Posted: 8/6/2003 8:03:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VolgaDeutsch55:
Swede Mausers were used by the Finns and Swede volunteers in Finnland during the WWII period.



[hijack thread]Yes, in very cmall numbers. The Swedes were also quite bad for sending the wrong amunition along with these rifles (and anti-tank guns).[/hijackthread}


Not only used against Russians, the Finns did fight some German troops near the end of the War. While Sweden was neutral, it was not passive. Swedes would fire on troops tresspassing.


Again, a MAJOR exception. This was minor. Swedes, as well as the Swiss, would fire on anyone crossing their border, but were openly on the German side until it was obvious the Germans were going to loose.


Yes, Swede Mausers were used on Germans, but mostly in the service to Finnland.


In such small numbers as to be insignificant.


Mausers were used by Balkan forces in fighting Germans. Poland manufactured Mausers and they, too, shot Germans. Mausers were used by many partisan forces versus Germans. Lithuania, by no means a significant combatant, was overrun by the Germans. They were armed with Mausers that the Germans confiscated and armed their own troops.
Mausers, Mosins, Arisakas, Carcani, Enfields, Steyrs, and many other weapons were used by and against the same people.



Yes, but im not sure what point you are trying to make. No ne ever said Mausers in general were not used against the Germans.
Lithuania fought very hard on the German side as well as the other Baltic states. On the whole they welcomed the Germans. There were more "Baltic soldiers" fighting on the eastern front than Germans at the end of the war.

Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:44:32 PM EDT
Speaking of newbies. There was a guy on HKPRO.com asking why his $3000 HK94 was marked Special Weapons. He said the dealer said it was the importer! I almost fell off my chair! I might have gotten the price he paid for it wrong. But it near that!
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:54:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Speaking of newbies. There was a guy on HKPRO.com asking why his $3000 HK94 was marked Special Weapons. He said the dealer said it was the importer! I almost fell off my chair! I might have gotten the price he paid for it wrong. But it near that!



I'd hunt that dealer down and show him one "very special weapon"---in size 10 steel-toe!
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 4:16:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Speaking of newbies. There was a guy on HKPRO.com asking why his $3000 HK94 was marked Special Weapons. He said the dealer said it was the importer! I almost fell off my chair! I might have gotten the price he paid for it wrong. But it near that!



that ain't nothing......there is a "dealer" that brings out a Hk91 PSG "sniper" with a price tag of like 5 grand.....if you look on the receiver you see SPECIAL WEAPONS. he also has a demilled display gun, with a cut barrel he calls a "shorty" M60 for only 2 grand.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 7:10:38 AM EDT
There used to be a dealer at the Maumee gun show that sold the same product we did. he was towards the back of the show, and we were in the front.

The guy usually has slightly higher prices, but carried different brands. No big deal, just put your best price out and go with it.

He would sneak up to our table and write down our prices so he could go back and under cut us.
This never seemed to help because he would be smeaking back about an hour later.

Once, he was so frustrated, he came up to the table, saw the price on one item, turned and RAN back to his table. Thats is to say he tried. He didn't look before he turned, and knocked down several very unhappy people. I walked out to ask if he needed help.

Just to mess with him after that I would walk right up to his table with a pen and paper and start asking him what his prices were (they were plainly posted). He would gather in all of his price tags, and would refuse to sell to anyone as long as I was there. GOD was it funny. I don't think he ever realized we didn't care what he did, and that I was just having fun with him.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 7:53:18 AM EDT
I was at a show once where I used to live and there was this kid (18-21) trying to sell his post-ban JT Kit rifle with a Cast lower and a KAC Ras Rail for $2800.

A buddy of mine that I was helping at the show took one look at it and told him that he would have better luck if he went to LA and sold it on the black market.

To say the lest the kid was pissed and said that you don't know what you are talking about and left.

6 hours later he was still totting it around the show and eventually left with it.

No lets all be realist we all want to get as much as we can but at least be realistic about it.

other great lines in Gun Show History:

1. Can I get this for My Friend
2. Why won't you sell me this new at the price of the used one you have.
3. Can I get my money back if I cant hit the target.
4. That's to much Glock's are made out of plastic and will break I will give you half price for it.
5. What do you mean I cant use just any ammo in any gun.

To many to list.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 8:17:40 AM EDT
In fairness, the kid may not have know what he had and was perhaps taken advantage of by an unscrupulous dealer, he may have thought he had a $2800 rifle.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 8:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
In fairness, the kid may not have know what he had and was perhaps taken advantage of by an unscrupulous dealer, he may have thought he had a $2800 rifle.



Possibly, but I believe that he was just trying to get way more then he had invested. He criticized the the JP Enterprise rifle my friend was showing off as a raffle item.

As you eluded to Ignorance is bliss.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 1:18:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2003 1:32:27 AM EDT by 82_Airborne]
I can agree with everyone here about dealers. I was at a local shop the other day and noticed they had a Bushmaster Bullpup. Now I am only 19 so I always get some kind of bull shit hassle from these guys. I hadn't handled one yet so after waiting a few minutes he finally got around to me and asked (as if I was wasting his time) can I help you? I asked him to see the rifle and he replied "how old are you son?" I told him nineteen then he asked me for my license. I showed it to him and with a disgusted look on his face he handed me the weapon. I looked it over and gave it back to him. As if I would give any thought to purchasing something from this ass (even though it was fairly priced). I won't be back. I would much rather just ask people here there opinions about things than have some dealer influence me on what he thinks I should get just so he can score a few extra bucks. Funny thing is, I love to throw in that I'm leaving for basic training soon to these older guys that treat me like shit. It's like all the sudden we are best friends an they want to strike up a half hour conversation with you. Oh well, guess we shouldn't judge each other so soon.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 6:11:36 AM EDT
Not a gunshow story, but along the same lines...

I know an LEO in the next county who has an archery/gun shop. He travels to all the local gunshows trying to sell his firearms. One day when I went in, I noticed he had an AR-15 on the rack with a tag which read "Pre-Ban Bushmaster--$1100". I asked to see it and immediately noticed by the serial number that it was a pre-ban upper on a post-ban lower (#124XXX, I believe). After quietly breaking the news to him, he informed me that I was wrong. He said a detective at his local PD had assembled it, and that the guy was a lot more knowledgeable about firearms laws than I was. I went home and e-mailed him the pre-ban serial number list and got no response. I went back in the shop about a month later, and it was still on the rack. Some guys just never learn.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 11:09:30 AM EDT
I was in a dealer yesterday, here in the DFW area. I was shopping for a scope for my GF's Marlin 17VS.

The above mentioned arm is perhaps the best firearm I've ever owned as far as living up to it's design parameters. It prints well, cycles smooth and has thusfar proven a VERY inexpensive way to practice. The rifle WILL 1/2 MOA NO PROBLEM on a calm day. Locked in a vise BOTH Hornady and CCI ammo will do one ragged hole at 100yd.

Perhaps others have had different results but mostly I see excellent reviews. OK - so I tell the guy what's going on. I said my girlfriend's having trouble keeping the crosshairs square, she's working on consistancy but keeps chasing the crosshairs around. Well, if your scope isn't parallax-corrected for the distance you're shooting - this happens. He proceeded to tell me that because I bought my rifle at a big store (Galyans) that it was a POS and that all HIS 17 Marlins had Shilen barrels.

Well first of frickin all, Shilen AINT the best name in the barrel biz. THEY'RE FINE, V'Good in fact. However, I'd like to see the PROOF of this as I HIGHLY DOUBT Marlin does two runs of the SAME PART NUMBER RIFLE concurrently.

Second of all I was asking about a SCOPE. A scope is a thing that can be put on SEVERAL rifles and I had a VERY valid reason for wanting a given feature.

So, the guy made three assumptions:
1. I don't know what I'm talking about.
2. I can't shoot for shit.
3. My gun's a POS because I didn't buy it from him.

1. I'm not some MOH winner. I'm no hero. I wasn't in 'Nam, Desert Storm or the LA Riots. That does not mean I can't read, shoot and formulate my own valid opinions on things. I DO know my shit when it comes to the guns I own.

2. I'm not Carlos H. I do, however load my own ammo and shoot regularly enough to know I can shoot well. I choose not to draw comparisons - but lets just say that I follow guidelines about breating control, cheek weld, and I put 500 rounds downrange a year, per rifle with 5 rifles. In rimfire multiply that by a factor of 10 / gun over 3 guns.

3. Again, I'd like to see his evidence of this. Maybe no Indian ever said "Any gun good, shoot good" but it would seem to apply here. My GF paid $269 for the laminated SS version of the gun, and I loaned her a VERY old Bushnell scope that I KNOW is damaged in some way (optics have moved SLIGHTLY) and is NOT parallax adjusted for 100yd, or isn't anymore. It's tolerable in a rimfire but I want to replace it.

So here I am with $350 in my hand in case I see something I really liked. I REALLY LIKED the scope he had and the price seems OK.

Screw him. Business going elsewhere.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 1:30:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82_Airborne:
I can agree with everyone here about dealers. I was at a local shop the other day and noticed they had a Bushmaster Bullpup. Now I am only 19 so I always get some kind of bull shit hassle from these guys. I hadn't handled one yet so after waiting a few minutes he finally got around to me and asked (as if I was wasting his time) can I help you? I asked him to see the rifle and he replied "how old are you son?" I told him nineteen then he asked me for my license. I showed it to him and with a disgusted look on his face he handed me the weapon. I looked it over and gave it back to him. As if I would give any thought to purchasing something from this ass (even though it was fairly priced). I won't be back. I would much rather just ask people here there opinions about things than have some dealer influence me on what he thinks I should get just so he can score a few extra bucks. Funny thing is, I love to throw in that I'm leaving for basic training soon to these older guys that treat me like shit. It's like all the sudden we are best friends an they want to strike up a half hour conversation with you. Oh well, guess we shouldn't judge each other so soon.



In fairness to the sellers, a critical rule of sales is to qualify your customer. That is, Can the person doing the looking actually afford to buy it. I would venture that most 19 year olds are long on looking and short on spending. There are notable exceptions, but I wonder how many other kids have come in to look handle, maybe an occaisional oops, but never had the money to actually buy it. It does not excuse rude behavior, but certainly might explain the questions.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 2:47:39 PM EDT

Origina:lly Posted By shotar

In fairness to the sellers, a critical rule of sales is to qualify your customer. That is, Can the person doing the looking actually afford to buy it. I would venture that most 19 year olds are long on looking and short on spending. There are notable exceptions, but I wonder how many other kids have come in to look handle, maybe an occaisional oops, but never had the money to actually buy it. It does not excuse rude behavior, but certainly might explain the questions.



First, I would say that may have been the mode of thinking 20 years ago, it does not apply today. I was a retail manager with JCPenney for a number of years and one of the things I stressed to my staff was do not assume someone's buying power by how they dress or act. The stock marker created wealth for a lot of people you would never assume. To "qualify" your customer is a huge mistake. The Ferrari dealers will tell you their typical buyer is someone in his late 20's to early 30's who has made his money in investments. They are more likely to come in wearing bermuda shorts and a pair of running shoes than they are in a three piece Brooks Brothers or Armani.

On a personal note I attended a gun show in NY when I was in the market for a Daewoo rifle. I was surprised to see one at the show and asked if I could see it. The dealer got rather indignant looking and said to me, son that's a $700 rifle! I laughed at him. I was there wearing a Ralph Lauren polo and chinos, wearing a $1,200 Tag Heuer and talking to my local FFL on a $200 cell phone as I asked him to get the book value for me. What I'm saying is I did not look like some scrub. When he still balked I took my money clip out and dropped it on the table and told him that should cover two of them if he had another.

Well he went to hand me the rifle, never cleared it to make sure it was unloaded. I gave it a cursory inspection and preceded to tell him every little thing wrong with it and told him I would give him $500 for it. Needless to say he didn't take it. At the same time the asshole had a couple illegal ARs on the table, which he tried to pass off as only being available for law enforcement and the military - you know, in case they wanted to pay $1,500 for a post-ban cast Oly lower and a generic AR preban parts kit.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 4:41:45 PM EDT
More than one businessman has lost my business because he took the time to "size up my buying power" before he bothered to open his mouth. THhe last car I boughtm I went to about a hundred dealerships (well maybe only twenty but it seemed like a hundred), I was looking for a specific type of car, not a specific brand, or model, I wanted a larger nicer car than the 88 Volvo I was driving at the time. I didn't feel the need to dress up just to buy a car, but I noticed that when I was weraing shorts and a T-Shirt many salesman would either not talk to me at all, or they would talk down to me on a very condescending manner. The best treatment I recieved was at a Lincoln dealer ( I was kind of scruffy looking that day as well) I nearly bought a new Lincoln Town Car. Forunatly I had an epiphany, I went to one of the dealers that had treated me like crap, but had a car I liked really well (a two year old LHS book value $18,500 retail), I went in wearing a pair of cutoff shorts a john deere hat, and a heavy metal T-Shirt I hadn't wron since I was a teenager. I got to the lot stood around at the back bumper of the LHS until they decided that somebody better check out the loser standing on the lot and make sure I wasn't about to go postal or whatever, once the guy gives me the satirical "what can I do for you today", I tell him "I would like to buy this car, but nobody wants to sell it to me". He told me that he had to go take care of another customer but would get right back to me (I had already been hanging around the lot, right in front of the showroom for two hours). About another half hour later this other guy comes out and explains that the other guy could not get away from what he was doing and that he would be happy to show me a few cars, and proceeds to walk over to the $4995 budget lot. I went over with him playing along, listen to him go on about how this was his first sales job and that he had just started there and all. So after looking at some POS Sentra he insisted I would love after I told him I wanted a big car, I told him I also wanted something a bit newer, (the Sentra was six years old), he told me that for what I was looking to spend that it was the nicest car on the lot! I asked him what he thought I wanted to spend, he stammered and began to tell me about a five year old Taurus they had that would only be $6000. Finally I got tired of screwing around, and told him I wanted him to get the keys to the 2000 LHS with low miles up front, at first he tried to talk me into looking at something else, but when I insisted he got the keys we went on a test drive, car dove real well, I told him we should go inside and talk about a price. Now the other guy who had blown me off earlier comes back in as smart assed as ever, and tells me that before they can even quote me a price they need to do a credit check, so they don't waste my time trying to sell me a car I can't afford. I stood up turned around and started to walk off, and he starts in about how they have special financing for people with bad credit (he didn't even know my name much less my credit or income status). I asked him if I could speak with the manager, the Man. comes out and actually seemd nice enough, I explained to him that I was not one to screw around with price haggling, that wanted an cash price offer on the car, that I was either going to buy his LHS then and there cash, or I was going to go sign for and pick up a brand new Town car, that I already ahd financing arranged on. He looks at me goes back to his office with the first sales guy. The sales guy comes out with a "I'm calling your bluff" smirk on his face, and puts a contract on the table with a one time right now offer of $10,000 cash. You should have seen the guy when I reached into my BackPack and pull out fifteen thousand dollars, and signed my name with my own pen. The manager did not like this, he came out running, telling me that it was a joke, that they didn't expect me to have that kind of cash on me, and theat they rally couldn't sell it for less than sixteen. I looked over the contract, it had the VIN, stock number and the cash price, plus was signed in ink by manager, I told him it looked like a legal contract to me. The owner got involved, he was not happy to be called on saturday, I got the car for 10G I believe the manager got to find a new job. The owner called me up at work the next week and told me he thought I played a dirty trick, and that if I was an honorable man I would bring the car back, and renegotiate, I told him that maybe he would learn something, and that maybe he should teach his sales staff to be nice and honest with the customers rather than try and humiliate them, I wouldn't feel the need to play dirty. I also wrote a letter and sent copies to several of the dealerships that explained that I had been to thier business, and been treated poorly because of my age and clothing, and that it had cost them twenty thousand in cash (which was the full amount I was planning on spending either on a down payment or purchase price), I got one response from those letters, a dodge dealer who seemed very concerned about the treatment I had recieved, he invited me to speak with him the next time I was in need of a car, two weeks later my brother paid cash for a year old Mustang they had, go ta hell of a deal too.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 5:22:20 PM EDT
There's nothing quite like insisting to see a $1000+ rifle wearing a Led Zeppelin shirt. Better yet when you end up buying it.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:39:50 PM EDT
And there you have it. Notice I said qualify the buyer. That does not only take into consideration a person's manner of dress, it involves talking to them. Simple questions that require answers, like Oh, are you interestred in buying a rifle today? Followed with a What can I show you that would meet your needs? Well, if the answer is a supermega anschutzenthingy $2800 rifle then we discuss and show those. If the answer is a Marlin model 60 then we discuss and show those. If the answer is I'm not actually old enough and I'm waiting for my dad to park the car, then we wait for dad. Very professional, very polite, and sure not to piss off the real buyers because you are still only trying to meet their needs.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 7:02:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 7:10:16 PM EDT by cruizer]


My daddy was a (Pick One) sniper, paratrooper
green beret, navy seal,army ranger, spetznaz
selous scout,albanian navy, lithuanian
frogman ad nauseum!




MY DAD IS A GREEN BERET!!!


(7th group)

Cruizer
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 7:40:15 PM EDT
I can agree with the need to get the feel for a customer, it is an essential part of business. The one point that so many salespeople ignore is the need to treat everybody professionaly. I am very picky about who I buy guns and accesories from, I go months without spending a penny, then one day the alarm will go off and I will put down two or three grand in a weekend. I am not the biggest spender around (especially since I got laid off), but I do spend a lot on my hobbies (I only have two guns and computers). It isn't so bad with computers, geeks have a habit of dressing poorly. I have seen so many posts on gun forums talking about how bad it is to shop at Wal-Mart for guns or ammo, when I should be supporting the little guy who is busting his hump to provide me with a take it or leave it attitude, and $500 SAR-1's. I actually enjoy shopping at the firearms counter of my local Wal-Mart because of the service I get there, the old lady in charge of the counter knows diddly about shooting, and could probably care less (the old timer who part times there know his stuff though), but she does know the location and price of about every bullet on the shelf, she also knows the prices and specs of every gun in her case, and to cap it off, she has never once tried to pawn off a three week old kit gun as a rare preban competition NM custom tactical AR15 just like the Army SEALs carry.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 9:08:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 9:09:01 PM EDT by 300ydClean]
Campy,
Yeah, it is a true story. he was your typical
urban youth and got the benefit of the doubt
until that nonsense rolled out of his face.

Cruizer,
No offense was intended towards any family
members, just making an example of everyone
you meet having relatives in SF. If there was
actually as many folks in SF as people claim
to be related to or know, we could invade
China no problem.

As far as judging people by their looks, I get that shit all of the time
I so happen to be quite heavily tattooed, and suppose that I look the part of a dirt bag to some.
If they knew that I work for the Railroad, my woman works for Honda, we have no kids, and have disposable income to go, they might treat me differently.
That however wouldn't be quite right. I treat people as I want to be treated until you prove that you are a jackass, then I would sooner hit you in the face with a claw hammer than speak to you.

Chuck
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 6:23:52 AM EDT
When I'm in a salesman's position, I start with a professional greeting and at least a statement of truth to get the conversation going. If someone wants to BS you from there, I say BS back within reason. If someone says they're in the Martian Marine Corps or something, just relax and go with it.

If the customer replies with courtesey in kind, you should assist them. As time goes by I find more and more people dress 'grunge', but that doesn't mean they don't have money. Even if they DONT have money, they might at some point in the future, or they might tell their friends who do have $$, but only IF you don't BS them and push them around.
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