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Posted: 5/9/2003 10:01:49 AM EDT
I went to OOW on Tuesday (told my wife I had a Dr. appointment he he!)

All I have to say is OHMYGOD OHMYGOD OHMYGOD! They have miles of piles of the coolest stuff. Every part you can imagine seams to be laying in some bin in there some where.

Anyway, I picked up two 5.45 receivers for a couple of K-Var Bulgy kits.

I have read here that they are not properly heat treated. What problems would this cause, and is there anything I should do / have done before the build because of this?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 10:05:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 10:25:12 AM EDT
I stopped by OOW on my way to Rochester NY last fall and picked up a 5.45 receiver. I don't know how those guys work all day in a building without windows. Once inside you would think you were in some underground weapons factory.

I think I asked them about the heat treatment issue and misplaced holes and they told me they had all been corrected.

You were just there, why didn't you just ask them?

Philip
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 10:40:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cinci:
You were just there, why didn't you just ask them? Philip



I was too busy watching them build a custom 1919 for someone who wanted some really odd bipod setup.

Besides, I was like a kid in a candy factory and had to haul ass 90 miles back home before the wife figured out I was gone a little too long.

Besides, I know the guys here won't stear me wrong.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 10:56:44 AM EDT
Yup, the place is definitely like a candy store. I remember when I stopped by to pick up some Yugo SKS's - Liz took me to the back and let me pick out the ones I wanted - I got an eyeful of pallets and pallets of SKS's. Their parts shelves are something to behold as well.

Link Posted: 5/9/2003 12:25:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 12:38:59 PM EDT
Liz, was she the blond with the 38 DD's !!!!

I have no problem with sending them out for heat treating. I was just wondering if it was something that I needed to do.

I'll contact Ak-USA, I heard they did Themao right.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:31:42 PM EDT
I'm telling your Alsace-Lorraine princess that you were getting horny with M1919s, 5.45 receivers and a blonde with a 38 DD rack. You're as toast as a Panzer after a P-47 treatment Austrian boy!

Call Chris Butler at AK-USA. Tell him I sent you. I bet he's offering full heat treatment. That's the scoop. He really fixed up my SAR-2 into a tack driver
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 2:45:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2003 2:46:50 AM EDT by obershutze916]
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 3:23:06 AM EDT
I have an AK-74 built on a OOW receiver that wore the ejector tab down after 120 rounds due to insufficient heat treating. I returned the rifle to Ohio Rapid Fire and Todd rebuilt and reshaped the ejector tab,heat treated and refinished the receiver test fired it for functioning and returned it with a new 30 round mag all in under two weeks. While I was disappointed that this occured Todd stood behind his product and made things right. I have since fired 300 rounds through this rifle,many in rapid fire strings with no problems.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 3:50:04 PM EDT
Just bought 2 receivers from OOW, got them they look fine having them built by Inrange, saw an inrange gun at Knob Creek and fell in lust.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:07:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:30:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 9:31:28 PM EDT by 5subslr5]

Originally Posted By obershutze916:


I have no problem with sending them out for heat treating. I was just wondering if it was something that I needed to do.

I'll contact Ak-USA, I heard they did Themao right.



I've been following this thread daily re heat treating of the OOW receivers. If you do go to AK-USA for complete heat treating will you PLEASE post your results back here ?? How long to get the work done and how it costs would be great info to know.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:29:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By obershutze916:


I have no problem with sending them out for heat treating. I was just wondering if it was something that I needed to do.

I'll contact Ak-USA, I heard they did Themao right.



I've been following this thread daily re heat treating of the OOW receivers. If you do go to AK-USA for complete heat treating will you PLEASE post your results back here ?? How long to get the work done and how it costs would be great info to know.



Have any of you knowledgeable folks contacted OOW and asked them about fully heat treating ?? I'd sure rather pay OOW a couple of extra bucks than have to ship the lowers to a third party. (Of course I will if that's the only way to get things right.)
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:26:49 PM EDT
My answer from OOW.

THEY ARE ONLY HEAT TREATED WHERE NECESSARY (AROUND THE HOLES)
COMPLETE HEAT TREATING WOULD CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE RECEIVER.

THANK YOU, ELIZABETH
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:29:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2003 7:41:12 PM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By obershutze916:
My answer from OOW.

THEY ARE ONLY HEAT TREATED WHERE NECESSARY (AROUND THE HOLES)
COMPLETE HEAT TREATING WOULD CAUSE DAMAGE TO THE RECEIVER.

THANK YOU, ELIZABETH



that sounds right to me. I think this is a non-issue guys. Bigtime.

I know they had some soft receivers earlier but mine are definitely harder than others from what I've heard so I think this has been addressed with regards to the basic hardness of the steel being used to manufacture the receiver. Mine have been treated around all the pin holes and the ejector tab as well, FWIW.

From what I know of metallurgy(limited, I admit) heat treating the entire receiver after the fact would be damaging and is likely totally unnecessary. For that matter I don't think it is reasonable to heat treat the entire receiver in the first place.

Sounds kinda like Fulton, etc heat treating polytech M14 receivers. Lot of money to be made but how effective in reality?

I would be interested in hearing what Troy Sellars has to say on the subject. Someone oughta ask him to chime in.

Edited to add:
Every so often some one comes along and spreads some kind of tale about how something needs to be fixed or something is bad, etc. Everyone else spreads the word and soon it is so widely disseminated that it is simply accepted as truth like some kind of "holy grail" or whatever...Often it turns out to be pure bullshit.
I have come to the conclusion that I need to be well informed but use my own better judgement and common sense. Same as my philosophy on investing. My 2 cents and this is not meant to slam ANYONE. Just an observation.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:14:06 PM EDT
the bulgarian recievers are fully heat treated I think. AK-USA's heat treating is going to be based on the bulgarian hardness. verified through testing.

dont see how it could hurt but I can see how it could be overdone
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 5:29:44 AM EDT
Unless he's talking about the same heat treatment from Bulgarian receiver stubbs on demilled kits, all Bulgarian receivers here in the US are milled, and that's totally different animal.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 6:54:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 7:21:34 AM EDT
I had a small problem with my OOW 74 receiver.I had it built and fire about 100 rnds through it.Perfect. Then the next day at the range it failed to eject on about 8 rnds out of 60 . What was happening was the ejector tab was borderline hitting the case head. I talked to my builder and he said to send it back and he would take care of it or he gave me something to try. I took some channel locks with a strip of leather and squeezed the receiver alittle.It did put the ejector where it needed to be.But when I did that the bolt carrier was in a bind because of squeezeing of the reciever.I then filed very lightly on the rail to get the bolt carrier to slide easy.I didn't take off much a very small amount.Now my rifle has functioned flawless in the last 100 rnds through it.I will say the rails had no hardness feel to them at all while I filed on them.Im a machinist and do know the difference.Im hoping the ejector tab is harden anough. WarDawg
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 7:25:37 AM EDT
By the way If I had to do over I would have saved and spent the money on a FEG receiver. They are just plain better.IMO.My weakest link to a beatuful Bulgarian 74 is my USA receiver.And as an American worker, I hate saying that. WarDawg
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:11:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 4:27:13 PM EDT
Unfortunately manufacturing is no longer our forte. Used to be we were the best in the world.

Bob,
How hard are the various receivers? Euro's, chicoms, OOW?
I remember you posting that you had an OOW rec that you could squeeze together "like butter". Mine are much stiffer than that.

Do you have your FFL yet? If so, I have a spare that I would send to you to check out.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 5:36:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 5:40:34 PM EDT
What was my Romanian SAR-2 receiver tested as?

Also, I forgot the difference between the "B" and "C" tests. Was it the type of point used on that little press on the machine? I forgot and I don't have my materials science book handy.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:21:55 AM EDT
I send an email to OOW with a link to this thread to see if they would respond. I think we'd all be interested in hearing their take on this. I have one currently at INRANGE being built into a postban Krink and one in my safe.
We'll see what they say if they respond.

I plan on bumping my Krink alotso I'll do a torture test on it in any event and let everyone know.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:13:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:08:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
I send an email to OOW with a link to this thread to see if they would respond. I think we'd all be interested in hearing their take on this.




Yeah, I'll bet they will be real happy to hear what I had to say about "Liz".
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:37:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By obershutze916: Yeah, I'll bet they will be real happy to hear what I had to say about "Liz".


WE???? Try more like YOU!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 1:11:59 PM EDT
Okay. I was off today and contacted OOW. Told they heat treat around all the holes(obvious) excluding the safety holes and that they then draw the whoe receiver down @ 600F for 1 hour. "The receiver is now heat treated but not brittle. If you heat treat the whole rec, the minute you quench it you will warp the entire thing." Also obvious.

She gave me Bob Landies number there and I talked to him. He was not to thrilled to talk to me initially and said he hasn't time to spend all day dealing with this kind of thing and sure doesn't want to do it after work. Can't say I blame him. I don't want to do free medical care after work either.(used to happen alot---my time off is now out in the woods or my lake, or the internet).
Anyhow, once he realized I knew at least a little of what I was talking about he was very nice, helpful and very forthcoming. I spent about 15 minutes on the phone with him and he said that this is in fact how they treat their receivers. He was adamant about the fact that they will stand behind their receivers if there is ANY problem. He said that totally heat treating the rec's will warp them. Further, if they survive that they may become brittle. He did NOT think that the heat treating in areas around trunnion was necessary, at all, but said that could be done if not done so excessively.
Bob told me that they have built plenty of post sample MG's and all have run without problems. The rifle they have on display has 10,000 rds through it, according to Bob, without a hiccup.

Interestingly, he said he had worked with just about every rec except Bulgy's and thought the chicom rec's were the best. Said they are built like a tank(think I'll hang on to my MAK's!)

I told him I would spread the word so here it is. I think I got it all correct.

Oh yeah, obershutze916, you are in deep doodoo
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 1:17:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 1:18:01 PM EDT by themao]
So who makes the better receiver then, OOW or the Humgarians, Chinese, Bulgarians and Russians? How do they totally heat treat their receivers without warping them?

Campy, did you ever test a Saiga?

Obe916: Did your wife kick your ass yet? Now you're going to have OOW folks beat your Austrian ass too! I love this. It's going to be a hate crime in reverse!

j/k
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 1:38:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 1:41:52 PM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By themao:
So who makes the better receiver then, OOW or the Humgarians, Chinese, Bulgarians and Russians? How do they totally heat treat their receivers without warping them?



I'm gonna GUESS and say that they probably don't. Just start out with harder steel maybe.
Who makes the better rec?
Damn, Mao, why don't you just ask which is better the AR or AK. Probably be a shorter thread, also.

Bob at OOW didn't think that you could heat treat the entire rec without damaging it. At least that was their experience and he told me that to his knowledge no one had succesfully heat treated his entire rec without warping it "like a pretzel".
He did say that they used thicker steel than the Euro's and that they paid an arm and a leg for their machinery for the AK rec's. Ended up being triple the cost they were quoted before it was done. He was pretty damn proud of it.


Obe916: Did your wife kick your ass yet? Now you're going to have OOW folks beat your Austrian ass too! I love this. It's going to be a hate crime in reverse!

j/k



Maybe we should all email. We'll take turns every 1/2 hour around the clock. He's gotta sleep sometime
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 2:59:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 3:00:43 PM EDT by Cinci]
He was not to thrilled to talk to me initially and said he hasn't time to spend all day dealing with this kind of thing and sure doesn't want to do it after work.

That's what I found about OOW they seem very sure of themselves and are helpful and polite but very very quiet and seemingly introverted.

It probably comes from working a building with no windows all day.

Link Posted: 5/20/2003 3:37:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cinci:
He was not to thrilled to talk to me initially and said he hasn't time to spend all day dealing with this kind of thing and sure doesn't want to do it after work.

That's what I found about OOW they seem very sure of themselves and are helpful and polite but very very quiet and seemingly introverted.

It probably comes from working a building with no windows all day.



Well, if my dealings with the public are anything to go by I'm sure he gets plenty of nuisance calls and people repeatedly asking the same dumb questions about things they simply haven't the background to understand. I spend a half hour with some people just trying to answer their questions and when they leave they know no more than when they came in. What's worse is they just keep asking more questions merely to justify the fact that they asked something ridiculous in the first place. It can get pretty damn exasperating sometimes.

Bob at OOW was very helpful and pleasant after realizing I had no intention of wasting his time. I got to the point and when he was done I said bye and let him move on. Because of that he chatted with me for a while. Nice guy but like most of us guys he is goal oriented. That's one of the things that makes us better workers than women.
I remember having to listen to some bullshit feminist crap at some orientation or some such thing. "Men work all day and women spend at least half of their day 'networking'." Can you believe this bullshit. They actually acted like it was better to spend half of your day yacking at your employer's expense. Shit, you'd think they'd be happy at least half of their employees actually worked. LMAO...and I really did!

I also understand about no windows all day. That sucks. There are days I see no sunlight at all. Now that I think about it: I've got to find another way to make a living. Gotta do this for one more year....
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 4:09:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Oh yeah, obershutze916, you are in deep doodoo



Great, Thanks. I know who my friends are now.

So it sounds like it shouldn't be too much of a issue then.

Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:15:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By obershutze916:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Oh yeah, obershutze916, you are in deep doodoo



Great, Thanks. I know who my friends are now.

So it sounds like it shouldn't be too much of a issue then.




You're welcome.

I'm not going to worry about the receiver. I'm going to shoot as many rounds as I can through it and we'll see. If I need to I'll buy a new receiver. I'm going to bet it don't make any difference. But we'll see after I torture test it.

How many rounds do you guys want me to put through it and how fast?? I already plan on bringing some water to dump on it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:25:41 PM EDT
One more thought. Does anyone know what the commies do to heat treat their rec's? Can't be some deep dark secret. The Soviets didn't patent anything and you have alot of diferent countries making the damn things:Russia, Egypt, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, E. Germany, Hungary, China....

Someone out there has to know.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:29:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 5:30:41 PM EDT by themao]

Originally Posted By obershutze916: Great, Thanks. I know who my friends are now.


Am I no longer your friend?

DrJarhead: If you switch jobs, you'll go insane. You sound like my old man. He keeps telling me he wants to retire after I get with med school. He's 52 right now, and I told him that mom will drive him nuts even more than the patients if he stays at home or plays golf all week. More importantly, you'll miss the work you do. Dentistry is one thing, but sticking your hands up people's orifices are another, the later being more exciting.

I ate dinner with an 85 year old doc Thursday night. He just stopped seeing patients last year, but he still roams around the hospital pimping med students and residents. He's been around the world, and you can only travel so much and spend so much money I guess. It teaches me to pace myself and live a long life.......at least until Obe916 and RotDorn shoot me for being a jack ass OR I get thrown into a concentration camp by our government.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:32:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead: Damn, Mao, why don't you just ask which is better the AR or AK. Probably be a shorter thread, also.


Come on now doctor! We all know the answer to that question here!!!
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:09:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By themao:

Originally Posted By drjarhead: Damn, Mao, why don't you just ask which is better the AR or AK. Probably be a shorter thread, also.


Come on now doctor! We all know the answer to that question here!!!



Damn straight. AR rules!

Well, hell, I've got 5 AK's and 4 AR's. At least I will tomorrow when I pick up my new Hungarian underfolder. Krink at INRANGE being built...Valmet...Galil...OOW rec with Bulgy kit in my safe. Will I EVER stop!

Just something about AK's. Every time I see a different one, I want it. And all it has to be is a different stockset! Arrgggghhhhh!
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 9:38:34 PM EDT
DrJ, So has OOW changed their heat treating process recently, or have they always done it the same way?

Campybob mentioned ealier in this post that he performed the rockwell test on a OOW receiver and it tested 7 - 9 on the scale.

I was just wondering if the newer receivers are currently being treated differently now than in the past. If so I would like to know what they would test at. Anyone know?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:19:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 3:20:03 AM EDT by drjarhead]

Originally Posted By Tracker:
DrJ, So has OOW changed their heat treating process recently, or have they always done it the same way?

Campybob mentioned ealier in this post that he performed the rockwell test on a OOW receiver and it tested 7 - 9 on the scale.

I was just wondering if the newer receivers are currently being treated differently now than in the past. If so I would like to know what they would test at. Anyone know?



I did ask him that actually and he said they didn't change anything but he alluded to the fact later which made me wonder. Hmmmm.

The thing that made me ask him in the first place was that Campybob said his were very soft and that the sides of the rec were esy to push together. Mine are very definitely not. That's why I asked Bob if he would test my receiver--or someone elses new rec for that matter.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:08:02 PM EDT
It really makes me wonder why it is so hard to get all of the questions answered about the OOW receivers.

I am pleased that DrJ was able to get some questions answered, but I am still hesitant to order their receiver.

I am sure that the OOW receivers will work just fine for my Bulgy 74 build, but I may just hold out for Global's receiver later this year. Unfortunately I have a feeling it may take a long time for that to happen.

The rockwell test of 7-9 just wont do it for me.

I hope to hear more good feedback regarding the OOW receivers.

I might just purchase a SAR-2 to hold me over for a while.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:37:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tracker:
It really makes me wonder why it is so hard to get all of the questions answered about the OOW receivers.



To be fair I'd have to say no one seems to be able to explain what all the other manufacturers do either. And it ain't no deep, dark secret. If I have time one of these days maybe I'll look into it


I am pleased that DrJ was able to get some questions answered, but I am still hesitant to order their receiver.



I agree. If I hadn't already bought one, all of these threads, here and elsewhere, would cause to me to hesitate, probably wait and see.

I any event, I have one being built into a Krink at INRANGE right now. Built it to be a shooter and it's gonna be. We'll see.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 7:47:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 7:49:15 PM EDT
DrJ, I would have to agree that we have no idea of the quality control of other manufacturers.

I have seen other board members AK-74 pictures that Inrange built for them, and I am sure you will be very pleased.

I also want to have Inrange build my kit, but I am going to hold off on my build for now.

Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:05:40 PM EDT
Too late ...

3 being built...

oh..well ...

Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:46:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By njogi:
Too late ...

3 being built...

oh..well ...




Don't sweat it. I ain't.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 10:31:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 10:38:08 PM EDT by sfcret]
I've been reading this "hardness" issue both here and over on the other board......and I got to tell you, you guys are making a bunch of something over nothing, or a much ado about nothing issue. I have yet to read one thread, post or anything about someone that had a AK with problems that had a OOW receiver. so why are you guys getting your panties all ina bunch over this?

with all the folks that had built their AKs with OOW receivers since the past couple of years or so, both on the 74 and AKMs.....not one post about a problem, and believe me if there was a problem with them, these boards are the first place they go to...now if there was a bunch of post with folks saying they had receiver problems, then I would say yes there is a issue with them......but you guys are finding issues, where there isn't any.

do some of you guys work for the DNC in your spare time or what?....the DNC is known to find problems where there isn't any.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 6:44:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sfcret: do some of you guys work for the DNC in your spare time or what?....the DNC is known to find problems where there isn't any.


If DNC = Democratic National Communists, I would like to reply that the GOP does the same f#$%ing thing, along with most government whores.

Hardness is important in terms of receiver durability if you drop the rifle or carry the darn thing in the field. A sheet metal receiver is not exactly the toughest thing in the world to begin with (compared to milled), so one must be careful with it if you plan on lugging it around a lot.

It's also just an issue of authenticity. The pinkos in E. Europe, China and Russia can get it to work right, and thus, so should OOW. There's no reason Hungarian FEG clones can't be made in the US, and if people are willing to shell out thousands on preban rifles and custom work, paying $250 vs. $60 for a US made receiver shouldn't pose much of a problem for freaks like us.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 6:51:29 AM EDT
SFC: Well, let's see. Poland, Russia, China, Romania, Yugoslavia, etc *ALL* heat treat their entire receivers into the 30's vs OOW, who doesn't. I'm not saying that treating is absolutely necessary, but it's time-consuming, and adds cost, so why would all those other countries do it if there wasn't some sort of payback in performance/durability?

Logic dictates that it's useful, if not necessary...

take care,
Tec
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