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Posted: 5/4/2003 6:11:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 6:15:04 AM EDT by Stottman]
Here is a pic of the new German civ market AKs.. Thought you might want to look


I have seen these in person, and they are all Bulgarian. They also have true semi auto receivers, even the stamped models. Price goes from around $800 for the 74, to about $1200 for the Krink

They same company also sells Augs, Sig 55xs, and HK clones.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:19:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:10:39 AM EDT
wow!!! I really wasnt even sure that civillians could own firearms in germany,do they have any of the B.S. laws pertaining to flashiders/standard cap mags/taxes etc.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:28:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 7:35:38 AM EDT by Stottman]
In order to get a German gun licence you must:

be a memeber of a shooting club for atleast a year, and shoot on a regular basis (log kept)

pass a firearms safety and law test

pass a background check

Pay some cash (gun clubs are not cheap)

THen you apply to the city you are in; If approved, six weeks later you can get your licence.

Once you have your licence, you can purchase bolt action rifles whenever you want; Anything else you must get permission. Basically you have to get a permission ship (you have to show a need for it, not as hard as it sounds)for a type of gun and its caliber.

Then, you can buy your gun. It is registered of course. And, because of the small market, dealers have to charge allot. You wont find dealers selling $300 AKs. For example: $800 AKs, $2500 HK MP5 clones, etc.

They just changed the laws regarding military style firearms; Before anything that looked like a military gun was not allowed. Didnt matter if it was real, or carved from wood. Now military style guns are allowed. But I am heard and read conflicting stuff about what is. They are still working out the details I guess.

I have heard that folding stocks, flash hiders, high caps etc are ok now. But I still have yet to see any guns for sale with these.

And Europe is not as bad for gun laws as people think. Its a pain to get the licence, but when you do you can buy cool stuff. Finland and Norway you can own machine guns, Belgium, Italy, Switzerland, Netherlands, and others you can own semi auto assault rifles. Ireland you can own shotguns and .22s. Some places even allow full autos converted to semi.

Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:51:31 AM EDT
Sweeet guns - baaaad laws !!
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 9:06:15 AM EDT
I want one of those Sig 550s on the wall!
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 1:42:07 PM EDT
Thanks for the pics, Stottman. It's nice to have a frame of reference on what's possible outside the states. It appears as though the comps are unscrewed from many of the rifles.

I'd like a Sig, please.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 2:29:31 PM EDT
Like their driving, I do like their general approach to gun competency. But I do not like the hoops for purchases.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 4:07:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 4:07:36 PM EDT by CAMPYBOB]
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:42:36 PM EDT
Oh that's nice to look at! I took my German friends shooting about a month ago and they had never fired a gun before. One of them was about to go into the German officer school. They had a blast. When they left they said they felt strange having so much freedom. The US was a big change for them from their screwed up commie home. I'm going over to Germany in two weeks. Where is this gun store, maybe I can go see it?
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 9:32:44 PM EDT
This gun company is located near Stuttgart. Dont know if they have an actual store front. This pic is off their website:
www.waffentechnik.de
The pics were taken during the gun show that was here in Stuttgart about a week ago.

As for freedoms, there is no real noticable difference. Plus, there are different freedoms that one is not used to in the US. Its also much safer then the States. From the soldeirs point of view: One can walk down the street drunk with an open beer at 3am legally. And not having to worry about getted robbed. Prostitution is legal, beer is sold everywhere (even in McDonalds), etc. The gun licence part (flame suit on) I dont mind. It helps insure that only people that are really into shooting get their hands on a legal gun (though easy to get an illegal one). This way the casual shooters (the ones that have ADs in their houses, get mad and shoot their wife, leave a loaded gun on the TV for the kids to find,etc) that give normal shooters a bad name dont get a gun. I know most guns in the US are not misused, but the ones that are give the media fuel for their propaganda. The reason there is no misuse of legal machine guns in the US is because they are so difficult to buy.


The big difference (doesnt apply to me anyways) is the taxes. The Germans pay out the nose for income taxes, plus they pay 16% sales tax. They also have special taxes for your TV, etc. They actually have a tax if you have flowers in your garden.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 1:37:48 AM EDT
Thank you !

I must ask if they can export to Finland ;o)
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 4:05:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 9:57:32 AM EDT
My grandfathers parents came here from a farm just outside of Stuttgart. I hope ot get up there when we visit. As for no noticable difference in freedoms, my friends would disagree. Give some one the finger after they cut you off in traffic and see how free you are. In Germany they can sue you for about the equivilent of $8000.00 US. That and you are taxed for everything like you said. You can't take a dump without paying the government first. Oh, and Turkish citizens have more rights than German citizens. If a Turkish guy starts a fight with a German guess who goes to jail? Not the Turk. I'm happy here in the US. It seems like the more traveling I do, the more I love the USA. What's the deal with flaming casual gun owners? People don't start out usually as experts. They have to start somewhere. To say that casual gun owners are the reason that guns are shown in an unfavorable light in the media is dead wrong. Since you put your flame suit on I won't rant about it, but the liberal media in Germany doesn't show guns in any more of a favorable light just because it's damn near impossible to get a gun there. THe saddest part about their restrictive gun laws is it perpetuates a climate of ignorance. Since noone has guns, noone knows any thing about them, and they become a scary boogieman. Sorry, I promised not to rant. Thank you for the link. I can't wait to get over there and deplete the national bier supply. Prost!
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 5:28:48 PM EDT
thanks for the pics and info!!!
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 4:17:18 AM EDT
Living over there as a soldier and as a civilian are two TOTALLY different worlds! Believe me I went down that road my self! You don't know what freedoms you have here in the US untill you live overseas in a country under THEIR system just as they do.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:42:01 AM EDT
Thanks Stottman. Are those HK clones or real HK's?
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 7:51:38 AM EDT
On the HKs, I dont know. Same with the Sigs; They are stamped with this companies information. Since the receiver is not restricted, one can find receiver blanks for sale here (hard to find though). Basically a complete receiver with out any markings. No manufacturer info, no serial number, nothing. I have seen Sig and HK receivers like that. Its possible that they are going this way, using parts from Turkey or somewhere (who else makes all three models, besides HK? ).
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