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Posted: 9/3/2002 1:57:30 PM EDT
I'm looking at adding an AK type rifle to my collection. I want only the best and most accurate so it has come down to these two for a chose but cannot make up my mind. I need some opinions on both, pros and cons. I'm leaning towards the Vepr II K because it sounds like it's a little more accurate and the finish is a little tougher. Plus it has a two stage trigger and comes with a pistol grip rather than a thumbhole stock for less money than the SLR-95. Plus I like the more modern up-to-date look of the Vepr II. Please advise. Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:17:02 PM EDT
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=74&t=142150

Expecting a different set of answers?

VEPR II all the way!

Unless you really like the Bulgy and plan on adding the US parts to lose the butthole.

Link Posted: 9/3/2002 2:27:00 PM EDT
Just trying a different forum. Seeing if I can get a little more info about the Vepr II.
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 4:26:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 5:50:01 PM EDT
Get an SA-M7. It is actually nicer than the SLR-95 because it has a nicer finish and it has an American milled receiver(which helps the parts count).


I have both an SA-M7 and a Vepr in 7.62x39mm (M43). I was not aware that any version was made in 8mm Kurz...... :) .

The Vepr is ok, but I like the Bulgarian much much better. The Vepr is probably slightly more accurate, but the Bulgarian is still much better. There is more to life than statistics.

-SouthernShark
Link Posted: 9/3/2002 5:54:31 PM EDT
You really should see if you can find someone who has a couple different AKs or a shop that has a few in stock. I have the VEPR, an Americanized, milled receiver MAK-90, and a SAR-1. They all handle completely differently.

Link Posted: 9/3/2002 7:21:19 PM EDT
Another vote for the Arsenal Inc. SA-M7 or M7S (scope mount version).

Absolutely the finest AK's available to the public that I've run across in 15 years of buying, selling, and shooting them.

http://album.gunsnet.net/showalbum.php?aid=168&uuid=templar

Link Posted: 9/4/2002 3:33:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 11:42:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2002 11:45:09 AM EDT by SuperChicken]
For the VEPR, can you replace the front grip with from from k-var with out and modifications to the rifle or new grips?

I seem to remember one company will rework the reciever and add a normal stock and pistol grip...but i cant remember.

edit
hmmm yeah www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.html#vepr545 thats the forend and muzzle converstion. but ive heard some bad things about Krebs lately...
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 12:53:17 PM EDT
SA-M7 or 7s, the Vepr just ain't right.
The SLR is just outclassed by the SAM.
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 4:16:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
vepr in 20" and vepr 'k' (kurz, kurtz = short) in 16".




The K stood for some German huh?

Damn all this time I thought it stood for Kewlio.

-SS
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 5:24:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2002 5:27:15 PM EDT by themao]

Originally Posted By 00_buckshot:
I'm looking at adding an AK type rifle to my collection. I want only the best and most accurate so it has come down to these two for a chose but cannot make up my mind. I need some opinions on both, pros and cons. I'm leaning towards the Vepr II K because it sounds like it's a little more accurate and the finish is a little tougher. Plus it has a two stage trigger and comes with a pistol grip rather than a thumbhole stock for less money than the SLR-95. Plus I like the more modern up-to-date look of the Vepr II. Please advise. Thanks.



Campy is right in a way. The SAM-7S is a bastardization of an AK-74 (gas block and muzzle brake....well, the idea of a muzzle brake, eventhough it isn't a true AK-74 type), a bastardization of an AK-47 (milled receiver, meaning heavier and last but not least, a bastard AK-103 (foregrip, not buttstock).

If I were you, and had the $625 to spend on an AK, I would get an AK-103 from AK-USA. It uses a Saiga receiver, which for all practical purposes is the same receiver used on the real AK-103 assault rifle produced by Izmash in Russia. This rifle is capable of groups of 1.5" or less at 100 yards. Its receiver uses the latest stamping technology, and it will weigh much less (around 6.75 lbish vs. 8.5 lbs).

Call up Chris at AK-USA:

www.ak-103.com

If it wasn't for the fact that these jerks here at AR15.com keep flashing the AK LEGP at me, I would have bought an AK-103 by now!

themao
_________________________

Got ice picks?
Link Posted: 9/4/2002 7:39:04 PM EDT
Mao, the SA-M7 is a combination of many AK technologies, from the early style of a milled receiver to the latest 90* gas block, but it is a clean clone of the current Bulgarian military rifle, the AK-47M1, which is basically a product improved AK.

This is the official web sight of Arsenal Bulgaria: http://www.arsenal-bg.com/main.htm

And this is the current Bulgarian military issue rifle, the AK-47M1. Take a look at this rifle and then compare it to the SA-M7S.

Link Posted: 9/4/2002 8:45:40 PM EDT
I know that Templar. It's still a bastard rifle of an AK-74, AK-100 and AK-47 though. THere's no friggin reason an AK-47, with today's stamping technology, should have to weigh 8.5 lbs unloaded. Their 5.56 version is 8 lbs, while amazingly enough, their 5.45 AK-74 clone is 7 lbs (probably stamped). Go figure.

themao
____________________________

Got ice picks?
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 3:34:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 3:41:04 AM EDT by SouthernShark]
I doubt that anyone outside of gunnuts in the USA ever thought that the Bulgarians were required to make old school AK-47s.... That would be like telling Colt that they MUST manufacture SP-1's or else they are producing BASTARDIZED M16s. That's not much of an argument in my mind. Changes have certainly been made to AK-103s as well. I don't hear you calling them BASTARD rifles. For that matter the SAR-1 is also a BASTARD rifle and the VEPR is certainly a BASTARD rifle. Pretty much anything except a straight up AK-74 (5.45mm) or an old AK-47 would be a BASTARD rifle according to you.

I have owned both AK-103s and SA-M7s. The SA-M7 is a better built rifle in my opinion. It weighs a pound or so more but the weight does not bother me any. The AK-103's, by the way, use a thicker stamping than the SAR series and weigh more. I suspect that there is a reason the Russians went back to producing a slightly heavier rifle. The weight difference between those and the SA-M7 series is not all that much.

By the way, the Israeli Galil and the Finnish Sako are also both milled. I don't hear anyone telling them that their rifles are crap because of it. Stamped rifles may have some advantages but I don't see those advantages as being all that useful, especially not to American civillians. I was not planning on hiking out to the DMZ anytime soon, and if I do I'll just use a sling (or drive my Jeep).


-SouthernShark
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 8:27:05 AM EDT
It may indeed be a better built rifle. The Bulgarians make high quality stuff, no doubt.

What kind of groups do you get out of the SA-7S? I know the AK-103 that AK-USA and Krebs currently makes is pretty darn good in both quality and accuracy.

Galil and Sako is a whole different ball park though. We're only talking about crappy third world eastern european countries, not crappy third world western eurotrash countries.

themao
___________________________

Got ice picks?
Link Posted: 9/5/2002 4:51:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2002 4:52:08 PM EDT by WofWof]
Have you ever seen a PreBan Hungarian?

Look at this...an NEW SA-85.

All the doodads and box, etc included 1500.00 + actual shipping and insurance.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid31/pa4dfcfa688ef099ec011ee60f33a7888/fd4e325e.jpg
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