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Page AK-47 » AK Discussions
AK Sponsor: palmetto
Posted: 10/15/2017 1:08:55 AM EDT
I am looking to add an AK to the safe and I don't know much about them except maybe that century has some shoddy rifles out there. I want to keep it the classic look with wood furniture.  However I don't like the really blond looking color. I am looking to spend about $600-$800 so not a huge budget.  I do have my eye on a Blackheart as they seem to be well received for what they are, but would be nice to have a more authentic rifle. Any help or links to some good deals on quality rifles would be much appreciated.

here is the blackheart I am looking at
$600
https://www.blackheartarms.com/product-page/bfv762-b10w
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 1:46:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Get a WASR from/by Atlantic.
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 2:45:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 11:18:03 AM EDT
[#3]
I've seen the Blackheart AK sold by Atlantic and others, along with the Riley Defense AK. I admit they look good and are tempting for the price. 

However, I think the one in your OP doesn't have the side-mount optics rail. Personally, I prefer an optics side rail on any AK, if you ever decide to add a red-dot or other optic sight. 

I'm certainly no pro, but from what I've read, pretty much all-US made AKs have a long way to go to overcome their less than stellar reputation compared to the imported com-block AKs, + 922r add-ons. The combination of US made with com-block parts has a better rep, it seems to me. 

And, while we are on the subject, I made a huge mistake last year and bought an all US made Interarms AK (owned by High Standard), pre-election. Boy was I disappointed (one of the hazards of buying online). Everything on it was crooked or misaligned; crooked rivets, crooked bullet guide, crooked hand-guard. The cast bolt carrier started getting mushrooming on the tale end, where it contacts the hammer when cycling, after only 30 rounds. I could go on and on, but there is no need... I was so sick of it after a few months, I traded it in at a gun store and took a big loss. But satisfaction is worth something... 

So, I'm a little reluctant to take a gamble on another all US made AK. Maybe one day they will be better, but reputations are hard earned and easily tarnished.  
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 12:15:27 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Get a WASR from/by Atlantic.
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+1 best value for first AK 
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 12:41:50 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Get a WASR from/by Atlantic.
What do I get for the extra money on these? I am tempted on the polish AK but for over $300 extra..  Not sure what I would be gaining on such a rifle.
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 12:45:00 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:




What do I get for the extra money on these? I am tempted on the polish AK but for over $300 extra..  Not sure what I would be gaining on such a rifle.
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Polish barrel for a start. If you can’t appreciate the quality of an AK made from brand new polish military production parts than that’s on you. Buy a WASR. Do not, repeat, do not buy ANY American made AK. Buy a WASR, WBP, VEPR, Mak90 or Saiga. If you want to spend a bit more and get an Arsenal that’s fine. They work too.

Avoid the yugos (weak receivers and no chrome lining for the barrels, plus take less furniture).

I suggest watching videos from Mel64D and AK Operators Union on YouTube. Those two know more than any of the other you tubers about AK quality.
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 4:32:20 PM EDT
[#7]
The Blackheart products look good.  They have forged and billet machined parts without, as far as I can tell, any cast parts.  This makes a difference on the trunnions and bolt particularly.
The WASR has no dimples on the side of the receiver (FWIW), and they used to use cast trunnions.  Maybe someone with a newer on can comment on current construction.
The Riley bolt carrier is cast.

Current 4150 US made barrels are pretty accurate.

One thing to consider is which parts are foreign made and which are US made?  It can make a difference if you start to swap out parts, have to have enough to be 922r compliant.
http://www.tapco.com/section922r/
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 7:00:43 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
The Blackheart products look good.  They have forged and billet machined parts without, as far as I can tell, any cast parts.  This makes a difference on the trunnions and bolt particularly.
The WASR has no dimples on the side of the receiver (FWIW), and they used to use cast trunnions.  Maybe someone with a newer on can comment on current construction.
The Riley bolt carrier is cast.

Current 4150 US made barrels are pretty accurate.

One thing to consider is which parts are foreign made and which are US made?  It can make a difference if you start to swap out parts, have to have enough to be 922r compliant.
http://www.tapco.com/section922r/
View Quote
I prefer the dimples in the side of the receiver on an AK, but I have a flat-sided Saiga AK, (no dimples); the mags fit tighter in it than my other AKs with dimples. I think the dimples are more cosmetic than functional, but I like the mag dimples. 

I'm no expert, but I think I did read where some models of the WASR used a cast rear trunion, and had some cracking issues. There was (still may be?) a WASR on GunBroker with a cracked rear trunion; the owner is still asking like $450/$475 (?) firm for it. 

The bolt carrier in the Blackheart AK in the pic looks to be Romanian (?). It may well be a decent AK for the money. OP, give it try and see what happens. It be nice if it had the side optics rail though...

Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 9:29:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Lots of favorable reviews on the blackheart.  Nutnfancy (i know.. i know...)  says his blackheart (under folder version) is his favorite from all the other ak's he owns.  I have no problems with trying the blackheart but a part of me wants something a little more authentic or maybe even collectable many years down the road.  A usa made AK will not be that unless we are in some kind of ban situation.  Still torn on the polish vs blackheart.  Cheap vs more expensive..



Nutn review video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0r1VEVkOMc
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 9:35:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Another question.. If I were to get an underfolder, Can I remove it easily and put a standard stock on it?
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 9:36:31 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Still torn on the polish vs blackheart.  Cheap vs more expensive..
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I think a valid question to ask is which will hold its value better. That may not be the most important criteria but it shouldn't be overlooked
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 9:37:11 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Another question.. If I were to get an underfolder, Can I remove it easily and put a standard stock on it?
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Nope

Rear trunnions are completely different and the receiver will have large holes for the UF hardware
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 9:50:19 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Another question.. If I were to get an underfolder, Can I remove it easily and put a standard stock on it?
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No.

ETA: Guess I should refresh before answering.
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 10:07:07 PM EDT
[#14]
I was faster this time my friend, but you are smarter 



Link Posted: 10/15/2017 10:38:23 PM EDT
[#15]
I took a look at the Blackheart website at all their AKs. They look great, but none of them seem to have the side-mount optic rail. I'd rather have the factory side-mount optic rail than the mag dimples in the receiver.

Still nice looking AKs...
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 10:56:07 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
I was faster this time my friend, but you are smarter 



http://i.imgur.com/d0WnoAB.jpg
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Flattery will get you everywhere.

Link Posted: 10/16/2017 7:00:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 7:54:06 AM EDT
[#18]
Oh, that's cool.  I hope AKOU reviews one of these with the hinged top cover.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 9:35:51 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Oh, that's cool.  I hope AKOU reviews one of these with the hinged top cover.
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Well, if the hinged dust-cover with the optics rail on top, is solid and secure, I suppose you don't need the factory side-mount optics rail.

I've never seen an AK with that particular design on the dust-cover. Definitely a new innovation; particularly the hinged part...
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 4:59:40 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:

Well, if the hinged dust-cover with the optics rail on top, is solid and secure, I suppose you don't need the factory side-mount optics rail.

I've never seen an AK with that particular design on the dust-cover. Definitely a new innovation; particularly the hinged part...
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That exact hinge mechanism seems to be new but there are several variants produced by Russia that are much better. ZenitCo also makes a removable dust cover which in my experience is rock solid

Still, glad to see this particular version here in the States. It's a good thing to be going down the path of innovation over here too
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 7:22:52 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
Another question.. If I were to get an underfolder, Can I remove it easily and put a standard stock on it?
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Standard stock, no.  M4-style stock, yes.  Make Underfolder Great Again #MUGA

http://shop.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/Under-Folder-AK-to-M4-Stock-Adapter-Under-Folder-M4-Stock-Adapter.htm
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 9:01:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Buy a WASR.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 10:40:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Get a WASR-10 (2017 manufactured) from either Atlantic or locally if you have a shop that has them.

If you have the extra coin get a Polish WBP from Atlantic.
Link Posted: 10/16/2017 11:54:54 PM EDT
[#24]
I think I am just going to go for it and get the POLISH AK47 WBP POLSKA CG1 SERIES.

As luck would have it,  they are out of stock  If the rep from Atlantic is still around, when can I expect these to be available again?
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 2:15:06 AM EDT
[#25]
I planned on getting one but got impatient and blew money on a shotgun and tools I had for one of those WPB's...probably should've listened to someone's advice and bought Atlantic giftcards to keep me from doing this...

I'll probably get a WASR from them in a few months though. Need AK in life again.
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 9:10:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Wise choice on the Polish AK from Atlantic.

I have slightly mixed feelings on the new production.  While I think they are top quality, I am sad that the costs have risen to equal a first tier AR.  I guess I shouldn't begrudge the Poles a chance to make money, and certainly think Atlantic does a really good job.  

My intro to the AK platform is fairly recent - wanted to learn the platform, had a chance to shoot a couple, and then was fortunate to be able to take a build class from Jim Fuller at Rifle Dynamics.  Came home with a nice build and skills and confidence for the next build.  Have 3 receivers from Atlantic waiting for me to pick up.

Let us know how it goes!
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 9:41:28 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
Wise choice on the Polish AK from Atlantic.

I have slightly mixed feelings on the new production.  While I think they are top quality, I am sad that the costs have risen to equal a first tier AR.  I guess I shouldn't begrudge the Poles a chance to make money, and certainly think Atlantic does a really good job.  

My intro to the AK platform is fairly recent - wanted to learn the platform, had a chance to shoot a couple, and then was fortunate to be able to take a build class from Jim Fuller at Rifle Dynamics.  Came home with a nice build and skills and confidence for the next build.  Have 3 receivers from Atlantic waiting for me to pick up.

Let us know how it goes!
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I've built a few ARs and enjoyed the experience, and the finished product, but I'd really like to be able to build an AK. The tools needed for the AR weren't that expensive, and the expertise needed not difficult at all; but I don't come close to having the tools to press the barrel into the trunion or crush the rivets to assemble the receiver on an AK. I've read you can use screws and nuts to assemble instead of rivets, but that wouldn't seem like a real AK to me (AK=rivets:-).

I also wish Atlantic would get the barreled AK receivers sets back in stock. I can add the furniture fairly easily. 

Good luck to the OP on their choice for a first AK. I have a few Saigas and a Romanian SAR 1; big difference in fit and finish between the Saiga and the SAR 1, but the feel and functionality of both is excellent.  
Link Posted: 10/17/2017 9:56:06 PM EDT
[#28]
I would love to build my own.  But yeah, the tools required make it impractical.  Doubt any AK build parties are happening in Toledo,OH.
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 5:48:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 10/18/2017 9:07:37 AM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
Aero , more of the Polish WBP AK47 Rifle are in production now and expected to arrive in the next few weeks. They have been very popular and we are receiving great feedback from our clients .



http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/polishchildrifle%20(1%20of%201).jpg
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Thanks for the followup. looking forward to ordering.
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 3:47:38 PM EDT
[#31]
for $600 or less, I'd get a WASR over the blackheart man... still can get them for $550 and they're rock solid... IMO it's the best "below $900-$1000" AK out there ATM
Link Posted: 10/19/2017 7:52:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Look for a preban ChiCom.... or a MAK90 ... or a Preban European model
Link Posted: 10/21/2017 10:13:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I took a look at the Blackheart website at all their AKs. They look great, but none of them seem to have the side-mount optic rail. I'd rather have the factory side-mount optic rail than the mag dimples in the receiver.

Still nice looking AKs...
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Strange answer. But ok. You guys act as if they always came with an ar thingy to hang shit on.
Not real. But if you want a good mount, that is not always stuck on the side of your rifle catching
and ripping holes in your panty hose, try this. http://www.akmastermount.com/ .

As with most u/f 's this is an only open option. Now if you like u/f 's the ak63ds is a damn good price at the moment OP.
You may not like blonde but this is affordable enough to get some ammo and mags to go with it.
Lookie lookie lookie http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/cai-ak63ds-detail.html?Itemid=0

When the ak63d's where here they got gone and they are still gone. 499 for a ak63ds is a no brainer, for me, and you will always
be able to sell it for 499. But your call and this is only my opinion.......
Link Posted: 10/21/2017 10:16:33 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
I would love to build my own.  But yeah, the tools required make it impractical.  Doubt any AK build parties are happening in Toledo,OH.
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AK parties are a thing of the past my friend, no more cheap kits had a lot to do with it.
Link Posted: 10/21/2017 11:32:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Strange answer. But ok. You guys act as if they always came with an ar thingy to hang shit on.
Not real. But if you want a good mount, that is not always stuck on the side of your rifle catching
and ripping holes in your panty hose, try this. http://www.akmastermount.com/ .
View Quote
AK's (especially AKMs) did/do come with scope rails. They've been standard on Russian, Bulgarian, Romanian, etc. AK's for a while. Not sure how you equated that to "ar thingy to hang shit on" considering they've never been an AR pattern mount.
Link Posted: 10/21/2017 11:45:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Strange answer. But ok. You guys act as if they always came with an ar thingy to hang shit on.
Not real. But if you want a good mount, that is not always stuck on the side of your rifle catching
and ripping holes in your panty hose, try this. http://www.akmastermount.com/ .
View Quote
I don't think it's a strange answer at all. I've read where many members here prefer a factory mounted optics rail on their AK. To each their own, I suppose. Optics on any rifle, AK or AR are more popular/common nowadays that ever before. There are more options for lots of different types of optics out there than ever before. 

Of course, you really don't need an optics rail on a side/under folder, but it would still be nice to have. Don't know what you mean about ripping holes in panty hose; that's the strange answer...
Link Posted: 10/22/2017 12:14:21 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:
+1 best value for first AK 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Get a WASR from/by Atlantic.
+1 best value for first AK 
Link Posted: 10/23/2017 10:02:06 PM EDT
[#38]
So the WBP polish Ak is worth it over the WASR? I’d like to get one and put an RS regulate mount on it with an MRO. Mmmm.
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 1:12:27 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
So the WBP polish Ak is worth it over the WASR? I’d like to get one and put an RS regulate mount on it with an MRO. Mmmm.
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My two WASRs run like a clock and have desirable E. Euro components as does the WPB, but if you have an extra $300 laying around then the WBP will likely look a bit nicer than a WASR with a nicer finish and wood furniture. If you go with the WASR you have an extra $300 for ammo & mags.

My .02
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 8:18:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


My two WASRs run like a clock and have desirable E. Euro components as does the WPB, but if you have an extra $300 laying around then the WBP will likely look a bit nicer than a WASR with a nicer finish and wood furniture. If you go with the WASR you have an extra $300 for ammo & mags.

My .02
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Good point about the WASR. I recently purchased one of the newer ones, (2017) and they did make some improvements over the older ones I've seen, especially the numbering/lettering on the trunion and receiver. But they are still as rough as a cobb in terms of the precise machining and high-quality fit and finish; it just aint there, yet. However, as you say, my  WASR does shoot good, sights are straight, and was pretty much zeroed in out of the box.

But for the individuals with OCD (like me) or prefer a cleaner, neater, nicer fit and finish, the WBP would be well worth the extra $300 or so, in my view. The newer WASRs are a bit better than the older ones, and run well, but still have a ways to go on fit, finish and machining of parts.

Just my .02   
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 12:27:08 PM EDT
[#41]
What about a WBP vs an SLR107? Nobody has those in stock though.
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