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Posted: 10/13/2017 4:33:22 PM EDT
[#1]
Quality. Love em
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Posted: 10/13/2017 4:35:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quality. Love em They, the Clinton Years Ones have the thumbhole stock which can be changed but why are they desirable? |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 4:37:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Better fit and finish all around
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Posted: 10/13/2017 4:54:28 PM EDT
[#4]
I believe euro aks are stamped from 1 mm steel and chicoms are 1.5 mm if im not mistaken. Mo stiffer!
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Posted: 10/13/2017 5:04:31 PM EDT
[#5]
In my experience it is due to a number of factors.
A. Built from start to finish in the same factory on good tooling with a pretty solid quality control regimen in place. B. Guessing here but given the need for reliable well built Full Auto versions for the military, easy to omit a few parts from the existing production line in order to make semi auto versions for export. C. Not a collection of parts from different factories in different countries, all with their own degrees of QC and tolerances that get cobbled into franken guns here in the US. D. Shitty workmanship and QC here in American assembly plants. The amount of work to assemble a barrel into a trunnion with a properly aligned gas port (12 oclock) is the same as for it not being properly aligned, ie set up the jig, press the barrel into place, next. I mean really, if they can build them right in China, Bulgaria, Romania, Yugoslavia, Russia, Egypt, etc, etc, you would think that we could build them, at a bare minimum, at least as good as the Norinco guns. E. My MAK 90 runs like a bat out of hell. Does not give a shit about what brand of ammo I feed it. Does not give a shit about what brand of magazine I stick in it. Gives me very good accuracy out to 300 yards (maybe more, never shot it any farther). F. Never had any aftermarket parts that did not work 100% with my rifle. Ultimak railed gas tube, ALG AKT trigger, Magpul Zhukov side folder stock. All work without any hiccups. When American built/assembled AKs, Veprs, SLR whatevers, C39s can meet that level of performance, build quality, and RELIABILITY at a price point around $4-500, I think they will sell ton of them. I paid $200 for my MAK, and bought ten of the underfolders for $139 apiece in the late 1980s. Now let me add that there may be AKs from the above list that meet the criteria I specified out there. If they are out there I am simply ignorant of them as I never had any reason to look beyond the MAK 90 AKs I have owned, sinced they possessed all of the qualities I wanted from the AK pattern rifle. jmtcw, ymmv |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 5:16:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe euro aks are stamped from 1 mm steel and chicoms are 1.5 mm if im not mistaken. Mo stiffer! |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 5:21:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Another thing. I didn't know that there were too many AKS that didn't run right?
I have family members who own a few and they are Century SAR 1s and never jam; according to them. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 6:16:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not I'm not sure but I've years rumors that although the Chinese receivers are a little thicker, this was due to off set the inferior quality of the Chinese steel.? |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 7:25:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another thing. I didn't know that there were too many AKS that didn't run right? I have family members who own a few and they are Century SAR 1s and never jam; according to them. |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 8:12:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Good point.
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Posted: 10/14/2017 3:20:40 AM EDT
[#11]
There are more Chinese aks than any other in the world. They are the most robust akm I've handled. Love the 2 I have and would never sell them
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Posted: 10/14/2017 6:05:42 PM EDT
[#12]
The Chinese FCG's are the BEST. GARY
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Posted: 10/14/2017 8:28:49 PM EDT
[#13]
I guess not everything made in China is junk.
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Posted: 10/14/2017 8:37:36 PM EDT
[#14]
I got one I bought for 175.00 brand new from the gun show in Charlotte NC, I call it my slick willie special, only shot 2 magazines through it.
it looks amazing compared to some of the newer ones ive seen, bluing wise I love it makes me think about monica and getting gun lube all over her dress |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 11:04:13 PM EDT
[#15]
I know it's not a popular opinion but personally I find them to be overrated, and mostly coveted by those who were around in the good old days, and who don't have much exposure to what has been available on the market since then.
Anyone who was not around to buy one in the 1980s, will have pretty much zero interest in buying a Chinese AK now. Chinese AKs can have a decent blued finish and are a little heavier built than the typical AKM, but can and sometimes do have all of the same rough machining and alignment issues found on supposedly lesser quality AKs. Former neighbor of mine had a preban Norinco that was just about the roughest AK I've ever seen, it's only saving grace was a deep blued finish. Would I turn down a good deal on one? No probably not, I would be happy to own one - but I won't be seeking one out intentionally any time soon |
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Posted: 10/14/2017 11:19:54 PM EDT
[#16]
I remember buying two of them MAK90 thumbhole stocks for $139 each from CDNN in Austin Texas...
Chinese Flatback mags were $5 each... Case of Copperwashed steel cased 7.62x39 on steel stripper clips was $89 for 1000 (great accurate ammo but very corrosive) This was when they still had Gun Shows at the City Coliseum (that alone tells you how long long long ago that was...) |
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Posted: 10/15/2017 8:02:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it's not a popular opinion but personally I find them to be overrated, and mostly coveted by those who were around in the good old days, and who don't have much exposure to what has been available on the market since then. Anyone who was not around to buy one in the 1980s, will have pretty much zero interest in buying a Chinese AK now. Chinese AKs can have a decent blued finish and are a little heavier built than the typical AKM, but can and sometimes do have all of the same rough machining and alignment issues found on supposedly lesser quality AKs. Former neighbor of mine had a preban Norinco that was just about the roughest AK I've ever seen, it's only saving grace was a deep blued finish. Would I turn down a good deal on one? No probably not, I would be happy to own one - but I won't be seeking one out intentionally any time soon |
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Posted: 10/15/2017 9:43:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it's not a popular opinion but personally I find them to be overrated, and mostly coveted by those who were around in the good old days, and who don't have much exposure to what has been available on the market since then. Anyone who was not around to buy one in the 1980s, will have pretty much zero interest in buying a Chinese AK now. Chinese AKs can have a decent blued finish and are a little heavier built than the typical AKM, but can and sometimes do have all of the same rough machining and alignment issues found on supposedly lesser quality AKs. Former neighbor of mine had a preban Norinco that was just about the roughest AK I've ever seen, it's only saving grace was a deep blued finish. Would I turn down a good deal on one? No probably not, I would be happy to own one - but I won't be seeking one out intentionally any time soon |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 2:17:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it's because China didn't want to pay for the rights for the AKM from Russia as they did with the milled Type 56. Instead of utilizing a rate reducer, as was added to the AKM, they made the receiver thicker to handle the higher rate of fire. At least that's the most accepted answer to my knowledge amongst the people that I trust to have insight into such things. A stamped Type 56 is basically an “AK-47 with a stamped receiver”, using mostly “milled receiver” (AK-47) internal parts. The 1.5mm stamped receiver allows for the same internal cross-sectional thickness as a milled receiver AK-47. Using a 1.5mm stamped receiver eliminates the need to have stepped receiver rails to remove excess clearance between the receiver and bolt carrier. Conversely, the use of thinner, 1.0mm steel in the AKM requires stepped receiver rails, to take up the extra space in the bolt carrier’s guide slots. The 1.5mm thickness also allows for the proper clearance between the fire control pin’s retaining wire and the inside of the receiver, preventing the pins from walking side-to-side, precluding the need for the AKM’s “X and Y” stampings, which are there to remove that excess clearance. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 9:08:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 1.5mm receiver thickness was a natural choice for the Chinese, since they kept using AK-47 internal parts in their stamped Type 56 rifles. A stamped Type 56 is basically an “AK-47 with a stamped receiver”, using mostly “milled receiver” (AK-47) internal parts. The 1.5mm stamped receiver allows for the same internal cross-sectional thickness as a milled receiver AK-47. Using a 1.5mm stamped receiver eliminates the need to have stepped receiver rails to remove excess clearance between the receiver and bolt carrier. Conversely, the use of thinner, 1.0mm steel in the AKM requires stepped receiver rails, to take up the extra space in the bolt carrier’s guide slots. The 1.5mm thickness also allows for the proper clearance between the fire control pin’s retaining wire and the inside of the receiver, preventing the pins from walking side-to-side, precluding the need for the AKM’s “X and Y” stampings, which are there to remove that excess clearance. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 8:17:53 PM EDT
[#21]
So is the 1.5 mm Chinese receiver better than the 1 mm everyone else uses?
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Posted: 10/17/2017 8:33:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is the 1.5 mm Chinese receiver better than the 1 mm everyone else uses? |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 11:54:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In general, and especially for a semi-auto rifle that will almost certainly never see combat, no. The standard AKM with a 1mm receiver is fine. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:13:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Any AK made on state equipment is better than a US variant.
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:18:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any AK made on state equipment is better than a US variant. 
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Posted: 10/19/2017 5:02:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess not everything made in China is junk. I just paid for a cosignment MAK-90 at a local shop for a great price. I can't tell whether its straight or slant cut until I take it home and remove the stupid thumbhole stock. Checking it out at the store, it looks barely used inside and out, same sexy blued finish and buttery smooth action like my Polytech. I've shot and handled many AKs including WASRs, PAPs, Arsenals and none of them are as smooth or as well built as Chinese AKs in my experience. |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 7:49:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Owned a Clayco... Owned a MAK90... Owned a 84S....
NEVER should of sold them... Ran like butter.. Made in military factories... Nuff said... full stop .. Look no further if a new-to-the-AK-world-first-time-buyer. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 4:08:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Now technically, wouldn't you have to change the fcg and other parts on a thumbhole Mak 90 ( to US made) in order to remove the thumbhole stock?
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Posted: 10/20/2017 4:25:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Yes, 922R
US Furniture (3 parts Forearm, Stock & Pistol Grip), FCG (3 parts with trigger, hammer, Disconnector), US Magazine (three parts for body, follower & floor plate), If you thread the muzzle, use a US made brake , plus could also do a US gas piston pretty easy... 27 C.F.R. 478.39 lists 20 parts: (AK has 16 of these) (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (2) Barrels (3) Barrel extensions (4) Mounting blocks (trunions) (5) Muzzle attachments (6) Bolts (7) Bolt carriers (8) Operating rods (9) Gas pistons (10) Trigger housings (11) Triggers (12) Hammers (13) Sears (14) Disconnectors (15) Butt stocks (16) Pistol grips (17) Forearms, hand guards (18) Magazine bodies (19) Followers (20) Floorplates Of these twenty parts, the laws states that you can have NO MORE THAN 10 imported parts on your semi-automatic rifle or shotgun. These twenty parts are meant to cover all platforms, and as you know all platforms are not the same. Without getting into specific platforms, starting out you know that you will not have to change more than 10 parts (6 or 7 on AK) to ensure your rifle is compliant. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 6:05:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, 922R US Furniture (3 parts Forearm, Stock & Pistol Grip), FCG (3 parts with trigger, hammer, Disconnector), US Magazine (three parts for body, follower & floor plate), If you thread the muzzle, use a US made brake , plus could also do a US gas piston pretty easy... 27 C.F.R. 478.39 lists 20 parts: (AK has 16 of these) (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (2) Barrels (3) Barrel extensions (4) Mounting blocks (trunions) (5) Muzzle attachments (6) Bolts (7) Bolt carriers (8) Operating rods (9) Gas pistons (10) Trigger housings (11) Triggers (12) Hammers (13) Sears (14) Disconnectors (15) Butt stocks (16) Pistol grips (17) Forearms, hand guards (18) Magazine bodies (19) Followers (20) Floorplates Of these twenty parts, the laws states that you can have NO MORE THAN 10 imported parts on your semi-automatic rifle or shotgun. These twenty parts are meant to cover all platforms, and as you know all platforms are not the same. Without getting into specific platforms, starting out you know that you will not have to change more than 10 parts (6 or 7 on AK) to ensure your rifle is compliant. And yes they are better than anything Romanian. Only Bulgarian I ever held was a beautiful custom milled rifle that rivaled a Weatherby in finish and wood. I should have bought it 
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Posted: 10/20/2017 9:14:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pmags and US furniture get you there while keeping the original trigger And yes they are better than anything Romanian. Only Bulgarian I ever held was a beautiful custom milled rifle that rivaled a Weatherby in finish and wood. I should have bought it However, most Chi-coms I've seen do not have the optics rail, which I prefer. I guess you could install one or have it installed... |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 10:19:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now technically, wouldn't you have to change the fcg and other parts on a thumbhole Mak 90 ( to US made) in order to remove the thumbhole stock? |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 1:41:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Technically this law was written for companies like Century Arms, & others, to allow them to import, or build guns here that normally they could not. This law was not written for someone who wants to update his gun. Not a SINGLE person has been prosecuted for violating this rule. To swap out a Chinese trigger group for an American trigger group would be like pulling out a 400 HP V-8, & installing a V-6. I have numerous sets of MAK 90 trigger groups that I install in all my AK's that came with 922 parts. Of course, I do keep a US mag, with 3 US parts should anyone ask. But after 18 years, nobody's asked yet. GARY |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 6:12:04 PM EDT
[#34]
And in Alabama, if a prosecutor wanted to be a dick, you could be charged for carrying an ice cream cone in your back pocket. This is true. Check it out. In either case, NO ONE has been prosecuted. GARY
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/weird-laws-in-america_us_56a264abe4b0d8cc1099e1cd |
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Posted: 10/22/2017 1:08:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're probably right but the law is there if a prosecutor wants to be a Dick. |
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Posted: 10/22/2017 3:48:01 PM EDT
[#36]
The Norinco MAK 90 is a very well made rifle.
I still have mine which was bought during the AWB. It does not have a threaded barrel to get around the evil features but the receiver and interior parts are superior to the stuff I've seen imported nowadays. Back then the Norinco stuff was considered the cheap stuff. If you wanted a quality AK you would look for a polytech. 
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Posted: 10/22/2017 4:02:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're probably right but the law is there if a prosecutor wants to be a Dick. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 2:50:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then the procsecutor and ATF have to explain why some guns have different parts and others have other different parts. It would be a nightmare that any procsecutor would not want to procecute. There is nothing consistent about how the ATF classifies "parts" under 922r. It's a legal nightmare Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're probably right but the law is there if a prosecutor wants to be a Dick. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 5:44:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Back in the day - Early 90's, the only post-ban AK rifles I got to handle were MAK-90 (Chinese), SA85m (Hungarian) and Maddi (Egyptian).
I liked the SA85m weight, fit and finish out of all of them. I thought the MAK-90s were rough, heavy, wood was fugly and bluing rusted easily. They do run great and will serve you well. I didn't appreciated them then than I do now. They were a "dime a dozen" back then before the Clinton ban. I thought the Maddis were rough looking, but closest to Russian back then. Still wasn't impressed. The Feg SA85m was super good looking inside and out and comparable in craftsmanship to a good factory AR (Colt and Bushmaster) which is what everyone wanted back then (ARs not so much AKs). Nowadays, a Vepr AK is an impressive rifle straight out of Russia. I'd get a Vepr if you want a reasonably priced factory brand new AK still in supply -- Get the Sporter and convert it if the Vepr FM is too pricey. I own a SA85m and converted Vepr Sporter. Love them. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 8:37:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back in the day - Early 90's, the only post-ban AK rifles I got to handle were MAK-90 (Chinese), SA85m (Hungarian) and Maddi (Egyptian). I liked the SA85m weight, fit and finish out of all of them. I thought the MAK-90s were rough, heavy, wood was fugly and bluing rusted easily. They do run great and will serve you well. I didn't appreciated them then than I do now. They were a "dime a dozen" back then before the Clinton ban. I thought the Maddis were rough looking, but closest to Russian back then. Still wasn't impressed. The Feg SA85m was super good looking inside and out and comparable in craftsmanship to a good factory AR (Colt and Bushmaster) which is what everyone wanted back then (ARs not so much AKs). Nowadays, a Vepr AK is an impressive rifle straight out of Russia. I'd get a Vepr if you want a reasonably priced factory brand new AK still in supply -- Get the Sporter and convert it if the Vepr FM is too pricey. I own a SA85m and converted Vepr Sporter. Love them. As I said in another post, the Romanian AK variants can be sloppy and rough looking, similar to the Egyptian Maddis, but they function well and have a reputation for long-term reliability. As far as the Chinese Mak90s are concerned, they seem to be very popular now and highly sought after, but it would have to be a good deal close to home for me to buy one. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 10:12:10 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any AK made on state equipment is better than a US variant. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 12:48:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had several, back in the day. They were always considered the cheap version there of. Times change I suppose. That said, I had a stamped one and loved it. I traded it in towards an FAL and then later replaced it with a Bulgarian milled. I did have an issue with the Mak-90 magazine paddle pin working loose. No biggie, but it proves they aren't flawless. And I had about a half dozen Russian rounds FTF in it. Upon inspection after the fact, the bullets were seated too deep into the case so the OAL was too short. Now, I tend to believe that it was an ammo mfr. issue. But can I say definitively that the rounds didn't nose into the action and then get set back in the case a little as a result of that? No. But it only happened from one particular case of Wolf (IIRC) back in the late 90's. Other than that, it ran flawlessly. So I do kinda agree that they are somewhat over-rated in terms of people thinking there is some special Chinese mojo about them. As someone else posted, the secret is probably in being fully sourced and assembled in a foreign factory that produces the real deal AK's as compared to the parts kit guns that get cobbled together over here. But I would absolutely pay more for a thumbhole MAK-90 than I would most domestic builds outside of the high-end custom stuff because I trust the factories that put them out. It shouldn't be hard to make a good AK, but for some reason, American makers seem to have a hard time of it. I just avoid certain makers (cough - cough, Century) and stick to whole imported guns as a starting platform. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 12:55:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never held a Chinese made AK, (although I own a couple of Chinese SKSs) but I would agree about the Romanian AKs. They (Romanian AKs) have a very good reputation for long term reliability and ruggedness, but they are among the roughest and sloppiest made AKs I have seen and owned (in terms of fit, finish and precision of manufacturing/machining). I have a Romanian SAR 1 from 2002 and a newer WASR 10 (2017), and they shoot great, and never miss a beat, but the fit and finish is terrible compared to my Russian Saigas. I still like my Romanian AKs though, and might just snag a Chi-com, if a decent deal ever comes along. On the other hand, many custom made AKs have the Romanian build kits, because they seem to be the most plentiful com-block parts available in the US market. However, most Chi-coms I've seen do not have the optics rail, which I prefer. I guess you could install one or have it installed... |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 1:02:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Technically this law was written for companies like Century Arms, & others, to allow them to import, or build guns here that normally they could not. This law was not written for someone who wants to update his gun. Not a SINGLE person has been prosecuted for violating this rule. To swap out a Chinese trigger group for an American trigger group would be like pulling out a 400 HP V-8, & installing a V-6. I have numerous sets of MAK 90 trigger groups that I install in all my AK's that came with 922 parts. Of course, I do keep a US mag, with 3 US parts should anyone ask. But after 18 years, nobody's asked yet. GARY
The nature of it is that the vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding and aren't going to draw enough interest from ATF agents or give them reason to disassemble their weapons and check for US sourced proof marks. However, I'm not aware of any language which explicitly omits the applicability of 922 to private parties who modify their own weapons and there would be a certain irony in having to argue to a court that the court should ignore the plain language of the law and instead rule based upon what we think the legislature intended when they crafted the law. It's a dumb-ass law, to be sure. But I wouldn't personally poke at that dog with a stick nor would I encourage anyone else to do so. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 1:10:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then the procsecutor and ATF have to explain why some guns have different parts and others have other different parts. It would be a nightmare that any procsecutor would not want to procecute. There is nothing consistent about how the ATF classifies "parts" under 922r. It's a legal nightmare Meanwhile your criminal defense attorney is working by the hour and you don't really just want him to sit back and kinda hope/trust/pray that their case can't be made against you, do you? The legal nightmare is going to be for the party in jeopardy. The prosecutor doesn't have to explain "why" the law should be enforced. Everyone on arf.com seems to think jury nullification is a reliable defense. It's actually the .22lr and #8 birdshot of criminal defense. |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 7:11:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Technically this law was written for companies like Century Arms, & others, to allow them to import, or build guns here that normally they could not. This law was not written for someone who wants to update his gun. Not a SINGLE person has been prosecuted for violating this rule. To swap out a Chinese trigger group for an American trigger group would be like pulling out a 400 HP V-8, & installing a V-6. I have numerous sets of MAK 90 trigger groups that I install in all my AK's that came with 922 parts. Of course, I do keep a US mag, with 3 US parts should anyone ask. But after 18 years, nobody's asked yet. GARY |
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Posted: 10/24/2017 11:11:16 PM EDT
[#47]
How about this thread gets back on topic, which is Mak 90's.
If you wish to discuss 922, start a new thread and debate there. Thanks, dryflash3 |
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Posted: 10/31/2017 1:40:58 AM EDT
[#48]
delete... Sorry back to topic
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Posted: 10/31/2017 7:51:16 AM EDT
[#49]
It may just be a fluke or my perception, but it seems like I've seen some Mak 90s at decent prices lately. There was one advertised on another gun board recently for $750, and it looked like a nice one. I've also seen them as low as $650 recently, but they don't seem to last long before someone snaps them up. If one comes up for sale at a decent price close to home, I may check it out. I'm a little bat-shy about buying any AK sight-unseen at the moment.
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