I originally posted this in the optics sections and got no responses...

So I legitimately have been staying up late wrestling with the idea of putting a red dot or 3x scope on my AK (WASR-10 with MOE magpul). I am starting to doubt the WASRs accuracy. I have a few questions and would like anyone and everyone to chime in if you can...

1. Should I go with a quick detach rail like the midwest industries or rs regulate, or just go with a hand guard rail like the midwest industries? Any other suggestions?

2. Should I go with a regular red dot or get a primary arms 3x prism scope? I'm leaning toward the 3x as I feel I'm underutilizing the cartridge. Any other suggestions?

3. I really enjoy the idea of a Zhukov side folder, should I possibly think of selling my WASR-10 and get a PSAK47 which is only $600 and supposedly more accurate? I haven't really been able to test my WASR on accuracy as I have no mount for it and have only shot irons. I feel I could easily sell it for what the PSAK costs. Any other suggestions???

Thank you all in advance, feel free to share any and all other ideas, and I apologize if this has been discussed before, I tried searching for one

I only have 74 ak variants so take my info for what it's worth.... full size 74s and a krink aksu

I've tried the rs regulate akml, the ultimak tube, and a PO3.5x21P

I ended up putting the ultimak on both AKs and have no regrets. On the krink I have an aimpoint H1 and on the full size is a primary arms micro.

I kind of get the best of both worlds because I can slap the PO on and get some magnification if I need it.

Another vote for Ultimak and RDS. I have one Romy set up this way and couldn't be happier with it. With a TRS-25 it's plenty accurate out to 300 meters, it co-witnesses with the irons, and is relatively fast on target. In fact I have another Ultimak in the safe waiting to be duracoated in gun blue finish to go on another AK along with another TRS-25 RDS. The MOE LHG makes using the Ultimak even better since it's taller and shields your hand from the heat better than the standard lower handguard.

Does your WASR have a side rail?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/My-Zhukov-arrived--with-PICS-/5-1756605/



Another vote for the Ultimak and the Zhukov. Sent you some pics from a prior thread. Rifle started out as a MAK90, Lost all the old wood furniture and put on the Ultimak, Zhukov and a PA MD 06 red dot sight. This is a very fun gun to shoot, pretty damn accurate, and utterly reliable

Have you bothered to try different loads of ammo?

Writing it off as not being accurate without doing so is pretty foolish. Or letting others shoot it too.

Interesting, the ultimak holds zero well? I kind of wrote it off as being easy to lose zero. Also, is the red dot easy to shoot out to 300? I have 20/20 vision, but I'm tempted to get the 3x Primary arms prism. or perhaps the holosun with acss. Any word on these or is a simple red dot by Bushnell good enough? thanks for the replies.

Yes my WASR has a side rail.

I don't really want to get into other ammo as I have a lot of Tula, so I'd rather stick with that as (in)accurate as it may be... My brother shot it and it was eh as well... maybe we're spoiled/lazy with our tacticool AR15s...

The one thing I don't get is for the cost of an ultimak, why shouldn't I get a Midwest hand guard rail? too heavy?

Oh my goodness, no.  The WASR-10 is what everyone says to get (for good reason) because of its reliability and likeliness to be built right and with decent parts.  "Accuracy" in the form of tack-driving scoped weaponry is not what you should be expecting from a WASR or a PSAK.  They are plenty accurate enough for target shooting or hunting, but this isn't a bolt-action target rifle.

If you get to test the WASR with optics, if you are good at pulling a (usually less than ideal for target shooting) stock AK trigger, and if you do your part to shoot straight, and the WASR fails to hit where you expect it to reliably... then I would look at trading it for something else, if I were you.

Edit to add:  I forgot to say that the Zhukov side folder is just a stock you can buy and install on your WASR yourself.  You don't need to trade rifles to get a Zhukov stock.  I have one on an AK rifle right now with MOE handguards.  Looks great and works fine.

Shooting a red dot at 300 is not hard and 7.62x39 is more than capable of doing well, but experience matters too. If you don't shoot well at 100 you will do poorly at 300, but if your fundamentals are right 300 is no problem for 7.62x39 and a red dot. Keep that in mind if you try 300 and don't have any luck...it could be you

For red dots get a Primary Arms or the Holosun ACSS. They both have really good track records and large fan bases with very few complaints. 

Ultimak is fine. If you install it properly and don't remove it zero is good and it has a long and proven track record. 

You may like the Tula ammo but you should try a few other brands of x39 in a controlled bench situation to compare. It doesn't mean you have to buy thousands of different rounds if Tula sucks in your rifle but if you test it properly you will know it's the ammo and not the rifle. Test it with an optic if you can


As engineer posted, DON'T trade the WASR for the PSAK. Terrible idea until you prove for sure that the WASR can't shoot. 

For side rail optic options, check out my site. Careful though, combloc optics can be addictive



Z

I use a Primary Arms red dot with an RS Regulate mount on my AK. I've only used this setup to shoot out to 200 yards but it did fine for that. If I'm shooting further and looking for accuracy, I go with another rifle.

Even with shit Wolf or Tula my WASR-10 will ring 16" steel gongs easy at 300 meters. With irons no less, thats not seriously accurate but its about what the platform was meant for. After 2 or 3 mags of fairly constant fire the barrel heats up and you see groups walk. I think this is an AK quirk due to the lighter weight barrel. If your vision prevents you from seeing well at distance definitely get the PA 3x/RS Regulate combo. If you do fine with no magnification at your intended max distance then go with the RS regulate and Micro PA red dot. 

ETA: what accuracy do you guys get with the ARs at what distance and with what ammo and optics?

AK "accuracy" is rifle to rifle, not brand to brand. My SAR-1 is more consistent and groups better at 100-250 than my Arsenal 107R but both are great 100% reliable rifles. They are zeroed and I have confidence that targets out to 300m (about the limit of ID with naked eye) can be engaged.

When I want to shoot small groups I get my AR.  Two similar platforms but very different.

In my experience a red-dot sight prevented me from getting rid of my last AK, an AMD65. The dot sight is basically the best thing since sliced bread. I removed the rear sight leaf and installed a 'Strike Ind' rail and a cheap red-dot that came with a SIG 556R. BTW, all reflex dot sights work the same way. What you are paying for with a premium one is quality of construction, of glass/lens and of resistance to moisture. I took my set-up to the range and went first to the 25 yd range where I sighted it in on-center but 1" low. Next I went to the 50yd range, loaded 1 round and fired. The hit was correct on the horizontal plane and 1/2" right of the aiming point. I packed it up and called it good. Much better than irons and faster too.
You have to figure out how you want to do it but 7.62X39 is ideal for a red-dot sight and you'll find that the dot sight will show you a lot more accuracy in your rifle than you thought possible.

Cheap 7.62x39 is almost always going to disappoint. At the very least you want to try using a load with a boat tailed M67 style bullet, if you want to shoot for accuracy.

The best I could ever do with my WASR at 100yd even with Yugo M67 and a 4x PSO was around 3". If that's the mechanical accuracy the rifle is capable of, a red dot is ideal.

I often shoot my M92 out to 100-200yd with a Primary Arms dot and it does fine. In fact it's more accurate than the WASR due to having a short, heavier barrel. AKM barrels just don't do all that great due to the flex inherent to the thinner walled barrel.

Current market US AKM 4150 barrels may or may not fare better due to higher reported hardness levels - the barrels may be stiffer overall. I have seen a few people happy with the PSAK accuracy (including Rob at AKOU) but not a huge sample size.

Not surprisingly the most accurate 7.62x39 rifle I have is the AES-10B with it's tree trunk sized barrel.

If you want to shoot 7.62x39 accurately you may want to look at the CZ 527 or wait for the Ruger American in 7.62x39 to show up some time soon.

It was pertinent to the thread I was trying to compare what accuracy OP is getting out of his ARs and with what optics that make his WASR seem inaccurate. 

I run TRS-25s above my gas tubes on both my WASR & Draco pistol. IMHO the smallest crispest dot on a sub $100 optic, fine enough for long distance use.

I did just mount a 3x prism scope on another non-AK rifle, have not had much time to use it. Kinda heavy for it's size but great focal length, very easy to use. I tried it on my Saiga .223 with a side mount and it felt too top heavy for me.

If I were looking at magnified optics I'd stick to a 1-4 magnification. But any side mount plus scope setup is going to add quite a bit of weight to your setup, a red dot like a TRS-25 is like 3.5 oz.

FWIW my WASR is probably my least accurate AK, the Draco with a brace easily shoots better groups. But I wouldn't trade my WASR for a PSA even if it did shoot better. I'd recommend looking at a folding stock like a CNC Warrior/Bonesteel setup, I run one on my WASR.

Fair point. 

I'm curious as to your experience with its accuracy. Were you shooting with a decent magnified optic and good ammunition? My WASR is surprisingly accurate with a 4x optic and Hornady 123gr SST.  If you're basing your accuracy on open sights and Tula, then you're limiting yourself.  

That being said, a micro red dot on an ultimak rail, or on an RS Regulate rail makes for really nice, quick, point and shoot setup.

Look into TWS for the rail, they hold zero very well and allow the RDS to be mounted low as possible which keeps the sight axis the same. They mount the RDS at the rear which is easier for me to use than it being mounted on the handguard. For a sidefolder ACE is the way to go. For the RDS I like the Vortex Sparc II they have less green tint than other RDS in the same price range it makes them easier for me to get on target with when there is a lack of color contrast between the target and the background. The TRS25 has a wicked green tint I don't dig it. For the rail go with the Kerbs instead of the midwest I've on this AK it's lighter & nicer.