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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:49:36 PM EDT
I know this should probably be in the AR15 forums, but since it uses the 5.45x39, I would like to get feedback from the AK crew here. With the $100 rebate offered by S&W, the price on this rifle is very attractive now. What are your opinions?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764984_-1_757905_757896_757896_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:05:31 PM EDT
Good God, $1225



That's just a bare bones A3 with no rear iron sight. WTF is that thing made out of gold or something? I would just buy some random DPMS 5.56 off of gunbroker for $600 or so, then buy or build a 5.45 upper for $300-$400 and when all is said and done, you'll have one rifle, two calibers, and still have an extra $200 in your pocket.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:08:48 PM EDT
Personally I don't see any benefits. The cheap 5.45 ammo is corrosive and steel case. And will eventually dry up. Steel case Wolf is probably the same price as steel case .223.

I've also read about keyholing bullet issues after so many rounds.

If you want a cheap AR shooter, I would just get a Stag upper and feed it whatever's cheap.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:13:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:16:14 PM EDT
I really like mine, I shoot it all the time and once I got the correct followers in my mags it has been very reliable.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:28:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By slomofo:
Good God, $1225



That's just a bare bones A3 with no rear iron sight. WTF is that thing made out of gold or something? I would just buy some random DPMS 5.56 off of gunbroker for $600 or so, then buy or build a 5.45 upper for $300-$400 and when all is said and done, you'll have one rifle, two calibers, and still have an extra $200 in your pocket.


OMB has them for $770, but they are back-ordered.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 5:11:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dump1567:
Personally I don't see any benefits. The cheap 5.45 ammo is corrosive and steel case. And will eventually dry up. Steel case Wolf is probably the same price as steel case .223.

I've also read about keyholing bullet issues after so many rounds.

If you want a cheap AR shooter, I would just get a Stag upper and feed it whatever's cheap.




Go to this page and scroll about 1/4 of the way down, and you'll get a dissertation-length explanation as to why shooting the cheap 5.45 ammo in an A/R can provide several benefits.

As for 5.45 ammo, Bryan at Aim Surplus told us just a couple days ago on Radio Arfcom that - absent an import ban - surplus 5.45 ammo isn't going to dry up anytime soon. (And keep in mind, as a large seller of this stuff, he has EVERY financial incentive to tell us the exact opposite. But he isn't.) The Rooskies (and others) have been making it for over 30 years, and it is just now hitting the market big. Bryan thinks 5.45 will be the surplus caliber of choice for at least the next several years. So yeah, while it will eventually dry up, it's .11/round cost right now means it's foolish to not at least consider it.

Those people who have a little money to spend can basically buy a lifetime supply of this quality mil-spec ammo right now for a lower price than 5.56 will EVER be at any time in the future.

For people who do any serious amount of shooting, 5.45 can easily pay for itself when using the AR-15 platform.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:20:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 6:21:26 PM EDT by SickMAK90]
Originally Posted By StephenNW:
Originally Posted By dump1567:
Personally I don't see any benefits. The cheap 5.45 ammo is corrosive and steel case. And will eventually dry up. Steel case Wolf is probably the same price as steel case .223.

I've also read about keyholing bullet issues after so many rounds.

If you want a cheap AR shooter, I would just get a Stag upper and feed it whatever's cheap.




Go to this page and scroll about 1/4 of the way down, and you'll get a dissertation-length explanation as to why shooting the cheap 5.45 ammo in an A/R can provide several benefits.

As for 5.45 ammo, Bryan at Aim Surplus told us just a couple days ago on Radio Arfcom that - absent an import ban - surplus 5.45 ammo isn't going to dry up anytime soon. (And keep in mind, as a large seller of this stuff, he has EVERY financial incentive to tell us the exact opposite. But he isn't.) The Rooskies (and others) have been making it for over 30 years, and it is just now hitting the market big. Bryan thinks 5.45 will be the surplus caliber of choice for at least the next several years. So yeah, while it will eventually dry up, it's .11/round cost right now means it's foolish to not at least consider it.

Those people who have a little money to spend can basically buy a lifetime supply of this quality mil-spec ammo right now for a lower price than 5.56 will EVER be at any time in the future.

For people who do any serious amount of shooting, 5.45 can easily pay for itself when using the AR-15 platform.


While I agree with most of this there are a few other points to consider. Yes it is cheaper right now, but you are very limited on your ammo choices. You can either get Silver bear (which isn't very cheap at all), surplus which is cheap and shoot excellent, or Hornady TAP. While for .223 you have endless types of ammunition. If you hunt anything from ground hogs to white tails you can find ammo, plus plenty of match grade stuff as well.

So should 5.45 be your first and only AR?? Probably not. I am sitting on 5k+ 5.45 and I will never attempt it in a AR again. It just didn't workout well for me at all. I had 9 c-products magazines and I would rarely ever get through a magazines without some major malfunctions. I almost got out of the 5.45 game afterward, because I had a junk 5.45 upper and a junk wasr-2...luckily my TGI in-range 74 has ran like a freaking top. I absolutely love it...

In short I honestly wouldn't bother with a 5.45 AR and stick with AK74's. The magazines are cheap and work great. Of course YMMV.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:11:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:13:44 AM EDT by dump1567]
In short I honestly wouldn't bother with a 5.45 AR and stick with AK74's. The magazines are cheap and work great. Of course YMMV.


This is where I'm at.

After posting, I did read that thread. It does make sense for some, but personally not for me.

I guess one just needs to evaluate their situation whether a 5.45 AR is right for them.

Good to here the ammo won't dry-up for a while.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 10:44:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 10:49:30 AM EDT by Mak]
You can buy the S&W 5.45x39 complete upper for much less and then pick up a stripped lower for as low as $60.00, a LPK for around $50.00 and your stock and buffer for cheap from the EE or other sources and build a rifle for $300.00 or so less.

http://store.a51tactical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1836&zenid=qatoifu8kdkf2hlt7iuijesiq3


Or build one from a Model 1 Sales kit which comes with the upper assembled for around $610.00 and the price of whatever stripped lower you use. Model 1 Sales
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 2:03:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dump1567:
In short I honestly wouldn't bother with a 5.45 AR and stick with AK74's. The magazines are cheap and work great. Of course YMMV.


This is where I'm at.

After posting, I did read that thread. It does make sense for some, but personally not for me.

I guess one just needs to evaluate their situation whether a 5.45 AR is right for them.

Good to here the ammo won't dry-up for a while.


I own a S&W 5.45 ar15 and have had great success running it at the range. The mags work great for me. When the 5.45 surplus disappears from the market, I'll have two choices:

1.) Continue to shoot with silver bear 5.45.

2.) Switch the barrel and bolt (and replace the gas tube). That will give me another .223 ar15 for another $170 or so.

I will probably opt for #2 based on the fact that I have easily saved $170 in shooting surplus 5.45. It's a great practice tool and provides me with the chance to train with a round that replicates shooting .223 at half of the cost. It sure beats training with .22lr IMO.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 2:19:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rockasons:
2.) Switch the barrel and bolt (and replace the gas tube). That will give me another .223 ar15 for another $170 or so.

I will probably opt for #2 based on the fact that I have easily saved $170 in shooting surplus 5.45. It's a great practice tool and provides me with the chance to train with a round that replicates shooting .223 at half of the cost. It sure beats training with .22lr IMO.



You most likely would be able to recover the cost of the .223 parts by selling the 5.45x39 parts on the EE to someone who has stockpiled a lifetime supply of 5.45x39 (like me).
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:14:35 PM EDT
I think the most important question lies in regards to the Spikes post on page 3 of that nice review..

Something to do with what the guys @ Spikes have:



Might be missing something, but that is the first non Hornady pic of the stuff I've seen.

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