Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 9/7/2010 5:14:19 AM EDT
Just wondering...
If you had a standard AK -7.62x39 16" barrel- which you plan to keep it simple for a SHTF scenario which muzzle device would be more practical and useful?

A muzzle brake or a flash hider and why?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 5:17:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 5:20:05 AM EDT by TX-Zen]
I don't have a 7.62 rifle but I'm going to say AK74 brake anyway, they are extremely effective at what they do and I'd rather have quicker follow on shots than less flash to give my position away.





Z
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 5:22:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
I don't have a 7.62 rifle but I'm going to say AK74 brake anyway, they are extremely effective at what they do and I'd rather have quicker follow on shots than less flash to give my position away.





Z


I love the 74 brake on my 7.62. I'm a lefty and the slant brake would make the stock slap my in the face. follow up shots were quick and on target.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 5:57:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 5:57:55 AM EDT by Stizout]
AK74 Muzzle Brake because the flash isn't too bad on it and if I am shooting at someone I don't care too much about flash since they can already hear me.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:20:02 AM EDT
You guys are missing the point of a FH. It isn't about making the flash invisible from the targets perspective, it's about making it invisible, or at least reducing it, from the shooters perspective.

Hands down I'd take a good FH over a muzzle brake any day, or night, of the week. The reason? Because a well performing FH mitigates the flash as seen from the shooters perspective so that he should be unaware of the flash. The point being to preserve his night vision.

When shooting in low light a bright muzzle flash will render you literally blind for several seconds at least.

Which would you rather, save a split second on a follow-up shot, or actually be able to see what's going on around you and what you're shooting at?

There is a reason that most military rifles have flash hidders, after all.

IMHO, muzzle brakes are highly over rated on a semi auto rifle and seems to be the result of shooting games, and not from the real world practical side of SHTF.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:39:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 6:40:52 AM EDT by TX-Zen]
Granted my only experience in night shooting is with M16A1 and A2, but IMO the birdcage didn't help with night vision IIRC, once the shooting began it was all over anyway. Not claiming to be an expert by any means, just saying that from my own personal experience night vision is gone anyway once the engagement begins. I don't have a world of experience in night combat with rifles (all mine was on an M1 Abrams and doesn't count for this topic) but I do have some and FWIW the flash hider on the 16 hasn't really impressed me.

Given more hands on with night shooting or using a different device I might be inclined to change my opinion though, I'll agree to that for sure.



Also in my experience the practical side of the 74 brake is that while it may not be a huge difference in close engagements for faster followup, in my subjective opinion it makes a noticeable difference at longer ranges for putting a steady stream of rounds on target. While the common opinion in SHTF is to not engage at longer ranges and evade instead, if for some reason you do need to lay down suppressive fire to bug out, the 5.45 with a functioning 74 brake does wonders for putting rounds quickly and consistently into a small area target. I've been extremely impressed at the volume of fire a full size 74 can deliver into a mansize steel target at 300 yards...about 80% hits at least firing about 1.5 - 2 rounds per second.

Is 74's long range performance the be all end all for SHTF? I dunno, but my perspective is coming from ex military and my priorities could be different. I prefer the advantages of high volume and relatively accurate fire over keeping some portion of night vision by using a flash hider, but honestly the difference in long range accuracy between a flash hider and a 74 brake may not be that big and it may be unavoidable to lose night vision when using either....meaning its all semantics with either one.



Just my .02 rupees



Z
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:30:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
There is a reason that most military rifles have flash hidders, after all.


Couldn't a counter argueement to this claim is to factor in that there are about millions of AKs out there and most have brakes? slant, ak-74 style,etc That would qualify as "most military rifles".
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 2:05:31 PM EDT
I don't think it matters if your in a SHTF situation.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:44:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gargamel:
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
There is a reason that most military rifles have flash hidders, after all.


Couldn't a counter argueement to this claim is to factor in that there are about millions of AKs out there and most have brakes? slant, ak-74 style,etc That would qualify as "most military rifles".


Different philosophies of combat- the West believes in direct fire (riflemen- individuals), the East believed in patterned fire(group fire). If you aren't very good with your rifle, and have some friends to throw lots of FA fire in the same general direction with you, the slant brakes are probably not the absolute worst muzzle device to have.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 7:43:52 AM EDT
FA a break will help control - if you are firing semi does a break really help that much? To me I do not notice much difference between a muzzle nut and a slant break. If you are firing in low light a flas hider should help you be able to keep sight of the target/s... At the end of the day, when and if the SHTF I doubt the difference between either will determine whether you or the enemies survive.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 8:46:32 AM EDT
the early m16 3 prong brakes work great for bolth applications I think they make one for the ak as well just my 0.02
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 11:09:56 AM EDT
In typical ARFCOM style.... GET BOTH!!!!

PWS FSC47

I got a used one from a buddy... great brake/comp and hides flash pretty well too.

Buddy gave it to me because of the INCREDIBLE amount of blast directed back to the shooter. He used his AK to hunt hogs without wearing hearing protection, that is why he gave it up.



Link Posted: 9/9/2010 12:55:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 12:57:14 PM EDT by Fields_Overseer]
Originally Posted By gargamel:
Just wondering...
If you had a standard AK -7.62x39 16" barrel- which you plan to keep it simple for a SHTF scenario which muzzle device would be more practical and useful?

A muzzle brake or a flash hider and why?


get both, fsc47. Great comp properties and decent flash supression... Im gonna build a tastefully tactical 5.45 and put the fsc556 on it in the future, FWIW.

eh, got beat.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:00:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AJSully421:
In typical ARFCOM style.... GET BOTH!!!!

PWS FSC47

I got a used one from a buddy... great brake/comp and hides flash pretty well too.

Buddy gave it to me because of the INCREDIBLE amount of blast directed back to the shooter. He used his AK to hunt hogs without wearing hearing protection, that is why he gave it up.



http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPi9-KqyrAmOO9gNsX7nrGAYVmSsv7zGPF7mkfIq_QZf2IJTs&t=1&usg=__n_NPGk8UFiLkn81sqnPYcmvOjLk=


I have limited experience with muzzle brakes. How bad is the blast?
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 6:14:21 PM EDT
In my experience muzzle brakes are never my frist choice because most will direct much more of the sound wave back at you, making the gun much louder to shoot from your perspective.

So in a case where you're shooting with no hearing protection, or in a home, you're going to suffer alot more hearing damage than with most flash hider designs.

I had an M1A with a muzzlebrake, and after 1 shot with no hearing protection, my ears would be ringing for minutes. With the standard flash hider, the sound was much more tolerable.

I would only consider a muzzle brake for a full auto gun. This is where it would come in useful.

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 8:11:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
You guys are missing the point of a FH. It isn't about making the flash invisible from the targets perspective, it's about making it invisible, or at least reducing it, from the shooters perspective.


This.....

I humbly admit that when I first got into semi-auto rifles, I wrongfully thought that the purpose of flash hiders were to hider your position from the enemy in low light. But as you stated, they are to not blind YOU.....the shooter.....when shooting in low light.

I would prefer a Flash Hider for any 16" barrel SHTF assault rifle, as we are only talking about intermediate calibers, none of which have tremendous felt recoil.

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 8:36:20 PM EDT
I would get a reverse threaded tromix shark break for the ak. Just my op. Looks cool to me.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:36:00 AM EDT
Get a quality flash hider for a SHTF rifle. Here's the one I went with:



AAC M4-2K. It hides the flash from BOTH perspectives, allowing me to remain hidden. That is, after all, the point....
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 9:26:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwise:
Get a quality flash hider for a SHTF rifle. Here's the one I went with:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/Gun%20Pics/p_00313.jpg

AAC M4-2K. It hides the flash from BOTH perspectives, allowing me to remain hidden. That is, after all, the point....


Nice looking rifle. I love the camo. Is that a mid lengh or car?
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:59:00 PM EDT
Nice Ar-15 but too bad Advanced Armanent does not make anything for an AK-47. I see the pros and cons to both devices and the FSC47 seems to be a good comprimise of the best of both worlds. Again, how bad is the blast to the shooter?
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:15:45 PM EDT
For the price of the FSC47, you can get a better brake and a better hider with $ to spare.

I choose hider if I had to choose 1.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:32:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwise:
Get a quality flash hider for a SHTF rifle. Here's the one I went with:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/jerrellwise/Gun%20Pics/p_00313.jpg

AAC M4-2K. It hides the flash from BOTH perspectives, allowing me to remain hidden. That is, after all, the point....



Winner! Nice rifle. I hate muzzle brakes. Increased blast felt/heard by the shooter is a deal breaker for me. I do own a MB on a SGL 21. I just haven't gotten around to replacing it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:25:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
Granted my only experience in night shooting is with M16A1 and A2, but IMO the birdcage didn't help with night vision IIRC, once the shooting began it was all over anyway. Not claiming to be an expert by any means, just saying that from my own personal experience night vision is gone anyway once the engagement begins. I don't have a world of experience in night combat with rifles (all mine was on an M1 Abrams and doesn't count for this topic) but I do have some and FWIW the flash hider on the 16 hasn't really impressed me.

Given more hands on with night shooting or using a different device I might be inclined to change my opinion though, I'll agree to that for sure.



Also in my experience the practical side of the 74 brake is that while it may not be a huge difference in close engagements for faster followup, in my subjective opinion it makes a noticeable difference at longer ranges for putting a steady stream of rounds on target. While the common opinion in SHTF is to not engage at longer ranges and evade instead, if for some reason you do need to lay down suppressive fire to bug out, the 5.45 with a functioning 74 brake does wonders for putting rounds quickly and consistently into a small area target. I've been extremely impressed at the volume of fire a full size 74 can deliver into a mansize steel target at 300 yards...about 80% hits at least firing about 1.5 - 2 rounds per second.

Is 74's long range performance the be all end all for SHTF? I dunno, but my perspective is coming from ex military and my priorities could be different. I prefer the advantages of high volume and relatively accurate fire over keeping some portion of night vision by using a flash hider, but honestly the difference in long range accuracy between a flash hider and a 74 brake may not be that big and it may be unavoidable to lose night vision when using either....meaning its all semantics with either one.



Just my .02 rupees



Z
You should have installed a flash hider on that M1 Abram like a true Arfcomer would have done

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:14:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gargamel: I see the pros and cons to both devices and the FSC47 seems to be a good comprimise of the best of both worlds. Again, how bad is the blast to the shooter?


Shooting in open air I didn't notice much difference between the FSC and the slant brake in terms of volume (though of course I was wearing ears). If you were shooting next to a wall or off to the side and behind the shooter I could see it being fairly brutal.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:43:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gargamel:
Originally Posted By AJSully421:
In typical ARFCOM style.... GET BOTH!!!!

PWS FSC47

I got a used one from a buddy... great brake/comp and hides flash pretty well too.

Buddy gave it to me because of the INCREDIBLE amount of blast directed back to the shooter. He used his AK to hunt hogs without wearing hearing protection, that is why he gave it up.



http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPi9-KqyrAmOO9gNsX7nrGAYVmSsv7zGPF7mkfIq_QZf2IJTs&t=1&usg=__n_NPGk8UFiLkn81sqnPYcmvOjLk=


I have limited experience with muzzle brakes. How bad is the blast?


You know that you have touched off a pretty pissed off rife that is for sure. It is not so bad that it is uncomfortable, but you had better be wearing some sort of ear pro, even while hunting.

It does not blast your face with gas or anything, it would be worse for someone standing 2 feet to your side than it will be for you right behind it. IMO it is worth having it because it makes a 7.62 AK feel like a .223 with no muzzle climb.

Also, don't worry about shooting indoors... even shooting a 22LR inside will make your ears ring forever, and if you are having to shoot inside your own home, you have much more important things to worry about than your hearing.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:55:27 AM EDT
In a SHTF moment that requires the use of a long arm, i.e. use of force against a threat, I don't think there will be an issue to what's on the end of your barrel.

With that said, I'll take a 74 muzzle device.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:02:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 6:39:21 PM EDT by TX-Zen]
Originally Posted By Melendez402:

You should have installed a flash hider on that M1 Abram like a true Arfcomer would have done







We don't need no stinkin flash hider







Z
Top Top