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Posted: 9/5/2010 8:37:43 PM EDT
Hi all,

The other day I had a blown primer jam up the action in my AK47 (Arsenal/Saiga SGL21). Afterwards when cleaning I noticed some significant wear on the little "nub" located in the receiver near the chamber, see pic below. I have no idea what the purpose of this nub is, but I guess I'm worried that the jam and subsequent force-open of the action maybe have caused damage to the nub. It's more than finish-wear; appears to me that actual metal has worn off. I can't remember if it looked like this before the jam-up or not. Does this look normal to you guys?

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 8:46:42 PM EDT
Mine has about 200 rounds on it and it has wear there, but not quite as much as yours. I shoot it until the nub is gone
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 8:50:37 PM EDT
I have a SGL-21 with the same thing. There was a thread a while back about this i think the reason for that nub is it contacts the bolt and turns and locks it. I could be wrong but i just got my SGL out to look at it and it does kinda look like that's what the bolt contacts as it begins to turn. I'm not worried about it.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 9:26:05 PM EDT
That is exactly what that nub does. My Saiga doesn't have that wear, but it's also only got about 100 rounds through it total
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 10:10:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jeepthing07:
I have a SGL-21 with the same thing. There was a thread a while back about this i think the reason for that nub is it contacts the bolt and turns and locks it. I could be wrong but i just got my SGL out to look at it and it does kinda look like that's what the bolt contacts as it begins to turn. I'm not worried about it.


Anyone have a link to the original "nub" thread?

By the way my SGL21 has well over 500 rnds through it, probably closer to 1000 rnds.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:51:33 AM EDT
What kind of ammo were you shooting? Just curious because I have shot thousands of rounds of cheap Russian stuff from AR's and AK's and never experienced a issue like this.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:17:35 AM EDT
I always take pics inside and out of a new gun, so if I notice wear later, I can see if it was like that from the factory. I'd take close up pics, and see if it gets worse the next few hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:51:49 AM EDT
That is used to start bolt rotation as the lug on the bolt that rides in the track on the carrier sits on a flat and cannot rotate unless acted upon by an outside force. The romanian ak's actually use a heat treated ramp for this and looks like the arsenal is using a soft rivet!
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:31:37 AM EDT
You have the cleanest AK I have ever seen.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:12:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SickMAK90:
What kind of ammo were you shooting? Just curious because I have shot thousands of rounds of cheap Russian stuff from AR's and AK's and never experienced a issue like this.


Brown Bear 123 gr FMJ. Never had an issue with this ammo until now. Primer blew out of the case and prevented the action from fully closing on the next round. Had to give the charging handle a good yank to break it free.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:26:45 AM EDT
i've had the blown primer once or thrice. brown bear and wolf. silver bear, golden tiger, and surplus ammo never had an issue.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:37:38 AM EDT
My SGL 21 has the same wear on the bump starter rivet and it's normal for these Arsenal/Saiga rifles:


Seems to be a wear item, no telling how long it would take to "wear out". A weak point in the design it seems, but maybe it lasts longer it seems?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:59:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By uberdog:
My SGL 21 has the same wear on the bump starter rivet and it's normal for these Arsenal/Saiga rifles:


Seems to be a wear item, no telling how long it would take to "wear out". A weak point in the design it seems, but maybe it lasts longer it seems?


Excellent thanks for the link sir. SKS_Lover's wear looks just like mine, guess it's normal.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:00:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By uberdog:
My SGL 21 has the same wear on the bump starter rivet and it's normal for these Arsenal/Saiga rifles:


Seems to be a wear item, no telling how long it would take to "wear out". A weak point in the design it seems, but maybe it lasts longer it seems?


I'm no gun designer, but perhaps that part is better being the softer metal as it is cheaper to replace than a bolt, and safer to have that wear out vs. the contact point on the bolt.

Then again- I've owned 2 Arsenals, and one had a bolt that was far weaker than my 1999 Century SAR-1. I had many more rounds through my Century gun, and the area around the primer where gas can escape and erode the bolt, was barely visible on my Century bolt, but noticeably wearing a circle into my Bulgarian bolt.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:56:09 AM EDT
I noticed this wear in my SGL21 the first 100 or so rounds I put through it. Mine looks the same as yours.

I have over 1000 rounds through it and it hasn't changed since I first noticed it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:37:37 PM EDT
I forgot to add too. This is how all Russian AK's are designed from the 100 series on.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:29:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Emegbers:
I forgot to add too. This is how all Russian AK's are designed from the 100 series on.

Wow! Really? Seems like the older trunnion was a much sturdier design. Guess they went for cheap and easier to manufacture over ruggedness for the trunnion on the 100 series....
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:27:17 PM EDT
Yup..my Chicom is nothing like that. Why does it need this part....my bolt cams on the bolt carrier like a carbine or Garand does.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:51:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Yup..my Chicom is nothing like that. Why does it need this part....my bolt cams on the bolt carrier like a carbine or Garand does.


I am a chicom guy as well. And the first thing I thought when I saw that pic was "What the fuck is that???" One of My AK's is built from Romy parts and I dont think it has that giant zit thing either...
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:14:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Yup..my Chicom is nothing like that. Why does it need this part....my bolt cams on the bolt carrier like a carbine or Garand does.


I am a chicom guy as well. And the first thing I thought when I saw that pic was "What the fuck is that???" One of My AK's is built from Romy parts and I dont think it has that giant zit thing either...


Same here. I almost had to pull one of mine out to take a look...almost... but then I thought naw, I know my trunnions aren't like that.

I've never owned an Arsenal but have been lusting after an SLR-107F. This part doesn't look terribly robust, so is it replaceable if it wears to the point of causing issues?

Maybe I'll just stick to my Chicoms afterall.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:18:04 PM EDT
On your Chinese, and all other earlier models of AK this part is built into the bullet guide. If you look at the bullet guide, it has a ramp on the left side of it. This is the new version of that. AK100 series bullet guides do not have this ramp, and instead the rifle has this nub. You can see it from the outside of the receiver on any Saiga.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:24:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 0351AA:
That is used to start bolt rotation as the lug on the bolt that rides in the track on the carrier sits on a flat and cannot rotate unless acted upon by an outside force. The romanian ak's actually use a heat treated ramp for this and looks like the arsenal is using a soft rivet!


The Arsenal is made in Russia.. and the rivet is how the Russians are doing it and have been doing it for like 20 years now.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:26:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imaposer2:
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
Originally Posted By scottrh2:
Yup..my Chicom is nothing like that. Why does it need this part....my bolt cams on the bolt carrier like a carbine or Garand does.


I am a chicom guy as well. And the first thing I thought when I saw that pic was "What the fuck is that???" One of My AK's is built from Romy parts and I dont think it has that giant zit thing either...


Same here. I almost had to pull one of mine out to take a look...almost... but then I thought naw, I know my trunnions aren't like that.

I've never owned an Arsenal but have been lusting after an SLR-107F. This part doesn't look terribly robust, so is it replaceable if it wears to the point of causing issues?

Maybe I'll just stick to my Chicoms afterall.



The only Arsenals that have this part are the SGLs because that is how the Russians build AKs now. The Arsenals that are Bulgarian are set up like your chicoms are. So a 107 wouldn't have this nub deal.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:32:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dskeet:
The only Arsenals that have this part are the SGLs because that is how the Russians build AKs now. The Arsenals that are Bulgarian are set up like your chicoms are. So a 107 wouldn't have this nub deal.

+1
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 8:35:28 AM EDT
Just because the russians are doing it now doesn't make it better, looking at it from a machinist's standpoint just looks cheaper, faster and still works!!

That is usually what determines a change like that..... the Dollar!
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:13:36 AM EDT
So I just received my new Arsenal SGL21-73, straight out of the plastic wrapper and box, I disassembled it and inspected everything, and noticed this exact same wear mark on that rivet in the OP’s original pic.

I’m not worried about it, but just thought it was interesting. The inside of the receiver is painted/coated like everything else, and according to the manual has been test fired at the factory. Since everything has a fresh coat of paint on it, the wear points are easy to see (which is what I key off of to know where to apply lube).

Just thought I’d add that info!
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:37:57 PM EDT
Don't worry about the little nub. It only wears to a certain point. I have one of the SGL's in my safe now and it has that rivet with the wear mark. It's worked perfectly for hundreds of rounds, and I'll bet we get thousands more out of it before we have any issues.
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