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Posted: 7/27/2011 1:56:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Just mounted a TWS DogLeg Rail on my Mini Draco. I am using a T1 Micro and a laser on an offset mount. I get a lower 1/4 co-witness with the T1 when using the included peep sight. This system works very well and certainly better then the samson rail that sits where the rear sight blade should be. I removed the hood on the front sight to (unclutter things a little) leaving just protective wings. I really like this setup.  MadDog    
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Posted: 7/27/2011 2:01:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Rafaga! We consumers need more aperature sight options, size, and "flippability"
Tech sights have a flippable sight, with a .062 rear apeture for precision shooting. Tech sights reviewed by nutnfancy where he gets 1 moa groups with a 7.62x39 Ak. |
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Posted: 7/28/2011 7:28:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Come on guys...this isn't hard. Just grind the spacer off.
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Posted: 7/28/2011 8:34:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Just mounted a TWS DogLeg Rail on my Mini Draco. I am using a T1 Micro and a laser on an offset mount. I get a lower 1/4 co-witness with the T1 when using the included peep sight. This system works very well and certainly better then the samson rail that sits where the rear sight blade should be. I removed the hood on the front sight to (unclutter things a little) leaving just protective wings. I really like this setup.
MadDog http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00139.jpg http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00143.jpg http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00145.jpg http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00148.jpg Are you sighting through your irons when you use the red dot? Just curious. |
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Posted: 7/30/2011 6:44:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Shot 200 rounds of Golden Tiger out of my SGL20 today at a new range that just opened. They were very busy and had targets set at 100yds only. I never had a chance to zero my Primary Arms mini red dot and still hit 10" gongs at will.Not a big deal mind you but at 48 I can barely see that far. The TWS Dog Leg Rail was just great. I have after only 200 rounds none of the issues with "wear marks" and such that a few people have mentioned. Just the wear at the ejection port that some have posted pictures of. All in all this is the best thing I have done to my AK period.
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Posted: 7/31/2011 9:11:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Quoted: Just mounted a TWS DogLeg Rail on my Mini Draco. I am using a T1 Micro and a laser on an offset mount. I get a lower 1/4 co-witness with the T1 when using the included peep sight. This system works very well and certainly better then the samson rail that sits where the rear sight blade should be. I removed the hood on the front sight to (unclutter things a little) leaving just protective wings. I really like this setup. MadDog http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00139.jpg http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00143.jpg http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00145.jpg http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww297/LittleAce1/DSC00148.jpg Are you sighting through your irons when you use the red dot? Just curious. Nope, I only use the irons if the MRD goes tits up and with a 5 year battery life it's not likely to happen. If you sight through the irons when using the MRD then you completely defeat the designed purpose of the MRD. It is made to sight with both eyes open, not looking "through" the tube but directly at the target. MadDog |
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Posted: 7/31/2011 2:53:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Wasn't one of the benefits of being a BETA Tester that we would receive another rail once the design was frozen and finalized?
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Posted: 8/1/2011 1:25:44 PM EDT
[#8]
How well do these hold zero if they are cut for a lightning bolt (left side charging handle)? I have been looking at one for a draco SBR, but I might get a left side charging handle done at some point and dont want to mess it up.
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Posted: 8/5/2011 4:24:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Rafaga! We consumers need more aperature sight options, size, and "flippability"
Tech sights have a flippable sight, with a .062 rear apeture for precision shooting. Tech sights reviewed by nutnfancy where he gets 1 moa groups with a 7.62x39 Ak. Anyone here getting this kind of grouping at 50 and 100 yards/meters with the TWS? |
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Posted: 8/5/2011 12:24:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Rafaga! We consumers need more aperature sight options, size, and "flippability"
Tech sights have a flippable sight, with a .062 rear apeture for precision shooting. Tech sights reviewed by nutnfancy where he gets 1 moa groups with a 7.62x39 Ak. I bought just the rear H&K sight from Chaos for when I get my TWS rail. They don't list it on their website, so I had to call them and ask about it. They will sell it to you for $65 if they have an extra rear sight sitting around. I know its not "flippable" but it is low and can lower cowitness with a micro on the rail. |
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Posted: 8/5/2011 6:51:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Rafaga! We consumers need more aperature sight options, size, and "flippability"
Tech sights have a flippable sight, with a .062 rear apeture for precision shooting. Tech sights reviewed by nutnfancy where he gets 1 moa groups with a 7.62x39 Ak. I bought just the rear H&K sight from Chaos for when I get my TWS rail. They don't list it on their website, so I had to call them and ask about it. They will sell it to you for $65 if they have an extra rear sight sitting around. I know its not "flippable" but it is low and can lower cowitness with a micro on the rail. jtgarner, I have been toying w/ the same idea but concerned about the height of the rear and front sight matching. Can you post a pic and report back as to how much you have to adjust the front sight? I assume that the HK rear sight is fully adjustable for windage and mounted on a pic rail |
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Posted: 8/5/2011 7:07:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Rafaga! We consumers need more aperature sight options, size, and "flippability"
Tech sights have a flippable sight, with a .062 rear apeture for precision shooting. Tech sights reviewed by nutnfancy where he gets 1 moa groups with a 7.62x39 Ak. I bought just the rear H&K sight from Chaos for when I get my TWS rail. They don't list it on their website, so I had to call them and ask about it. They will sell it to you for $65 if they have an extra rear sight sitting around. I know its not "flippable" but it is low and can lower cowitness with a micro on the rail. jtgarner, I have been toying w/ the same idea but concerned about the height of the rear and front sight matching. Can you post a pic and report back as to how much you have to adjust the front sight? I assume that the HK rear sight is fully adjustable for windage and mounted on a pic rail I do not have the TWS rail yet (i ordered the chaos sights cause they only had one when I called and I wanted to make sure I had them before I got the rail). The following picture is NOT my rilfe, but someone on another forum who had some Chaos rear sights sitting around when he got his TWS rail. He said they are windage adjustable, but you will have to tap the slot on the rail to attach them. http://ingunowners.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1602&pictureid=15456 |
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Posted: 8/6/2011 2:03:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Sah-weeeet! More details if you try it! An url to that forum maybe???
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Posted: 8/6/2011 9:26:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Is it me, or is that rear sight on backwards? Otherwise, very interesting. -REad |
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Posted: 8/6/2011 8:46:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Is it me, or is that rear sight on backwards? Otherwise, very interesting. -REad The opening of the drum should face forward. Good catch |
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Posted: 8/7/2011 8:01:52 PM EDT
[#16]
The Forum with that gun is www.ingunowners.com (you can find the thread by googleing "Draco TWS Cover" and scrolling down to the ingunowners link)
I am still wondering if cutting the left side of this top cover will affect the way it holds zero. I am thinking about putting a left side charging handle on my gun and don't want to waste the railed top cover by cutting it up. Also, just holding the Chaos rear sight next to the stock one, it looks like the front sight will have to come up some in order to zero it with those sights. How far, I am not sure. Next on my parts list is the Tapco trigger so that I am 922 compliant (have a battle grip, bart brake, and US buttstock) when my stamp gets here for my Draco. When I have that I will start putting aside money for the TWS rail and let you guys know how the Chaos sights work. (it might be awhile, I am a poor college student) |
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Posted: 8/8/2011 8:48:11 AM EDT
[#17]
Is anyone concerned with the little flap on the right side being used as a spring? It seems like after enough cycles of it being taken on/off the flap would snap off, given that it's aluminum. Is the amount of flex minimal enough to stop this happening?
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Posted: 8/8/2011 8:17:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Is anyone concerned with the little flap on the right side being used as a spring? It seems like after enough cycles of it being taken on/off the flap would snap off, given that it's aluminum. Is the amount of flex minimal enough to stop this happening? I really don't think that it has enough movement to stress and snap. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 5:02:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Either no one reads this thread, or no one knows...
Would cutting the left side of this for a left side charging handle cause the top cover to not hold zero as well? |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 5:47:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Ask TWS?
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Posted: 8/12/2011 6:00:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Either no one reads this thread, or no one knows... Would cutting the left side of this for a left side charging handle cause the top cover to not hold zero as well? I have been told by some customers that they have done this successfully. However, I have never done it nor tested it. As long as the last inch or so of the left side panel is intact it should pose no problems from an engineering point of view. Keep in mind that cutting up your cover does void the warranty. If that's not a big deal to you then modify it as you see fit and share your results. Folks here would like to see it and may adopt your mods. Just cut a little at a time and don't be in a rush. |
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Posted: 8/12/2011 6:43:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Either no one reads this thread, or no one knows... Would cutting the left side of this for a left side charging handle cause the top cover to not hold zero as well? I have been told by some customers that they have done this successfully. However, I have never done it nor tested it. As long as the last inch or so of the left side panel is intact it should pose no problems from an engineering point of view. Keep in mind that cutting up your cover does void the warranty. If that's not a big deal to you then modify it as you see fit and share your results. Folks here would like to see it and may adopt your mods. Just cut a little at a time and don't be in a rush. Thanks, does drilling and tapping the top cover for rear sights void the warranty too? |
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Posted: 8/13/2011 3:51:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Round update... 830rds. No problems with the rail. Normal wear as indicated in the thread.(inside top cover, bolt smacking the spacer.) The area on the cover that gets shells deflected into it appears to have stopped wearing.
Edit up to 1340 rounds. No problems or loss of zero. I'm thoroughly impressed with this thing. Completed my testing of it. I hope others will experience trouble free use. Good job TWS! |
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Posted: 8/27/2011 9:30:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Either no one reads this thread, or no one knows... Would cutting the left side of this for a left side charging handle cause the top cover to not hold zero as well? I have been told by some customers that they have done this successfully. However, I have never done it nor tested it. As long as the last inch or so of the left side panel is intact it should pose no problems from an engineering point of view. Keep in mind that cutting up your cover does void the warranty. If that's not a big deal to you then modify it as you see fit and share your results. Folks here would like to see it and may adopt your mods. Just cut a little at a time and don't be in a rush. Thanks, does drilling and tapping the top cover for rear sights void the warranty too? Have you consider the AK ratchet charging handle system? It replaces the gas tube and mount a charging handle up front a la HK charging handle. I have read in some post that the lighting bolt which I think you are considering digs into the chest and adds a substantial width to the thickness of the gun. Besides the more material you remove from the cover, the less contact there is and can lead to movement and loss of zero, my guess. |
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Posted: 8/27/2011 10:20:33 AM EDT
[#25]
i installed mine last night. ill sight everything in tomorrow. (something is wrong with my camera and the right side of hte images are off color and fuzzy)
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Posted: 8/27/2011 11:56:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
i installed mine last night. ill sight everything in tomorrow. (something is wrong with my camera and the right side of hte images are off color and fuzzy) http://home.comcast.net/~legonas/polishrail1.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~legonas/polishrail2.jpg Now that's how to put an EOTech on an AK. But you lose 5pts for no magazine.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 7:03:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Either no one reads this thread, or no one knows... Would cutting the left side of this for a left side charging handle cause the top cover to not hold zero as well? I have been told by some customers that they have done this successfully. However, I have never done it nor tested it. As long as the last inch or so of the left side panel is intact it should pose no problems from an engineering point of view. Keep in mind that cutting up your cover does void the warranty. If that's not a big deal to you then modify it as you see fit and share your results. Folks here would like to see it and may adopt your mods. Just cut a little at a time and don't be in a rush. Thanks, does drilling and tapping the top cover for rear sights void the warranty too? Have you consider the AK ratchet charging handle system? It replaces the gas tube and mount a charging handle up front a la HK charging handle. I have read in some post that the lighting bolt which I think you are considering digs into the chest and adds a substantial width to the thickness of the gun. Besides the more material you remove from the cover, the less contact there is and can lead to movement and loss of zero, my guess. Rafaga says it should be fine, and I won't do the ratchet because I want to go with the Ultimak top rail. |
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Posted: 9/1/2011 8:50:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Any progress on the Yugo version? Hi All, Today the first batch of Dog Leg covers for the YUGO was put into production. We should have them ready to go to the anodizer's on Tuesday. Usually it's 3-4 days at the anodize shop then we can ship. So maybe by Friday of next week if the scheduling works out. Fingers crossed. There are just a few small yet important differences on the YUGO model: -overall length is 1/2" shorter; -there are 15 instead of 17 rail slots due to shorter length; -the cover release button is configured to work with the YUGO button lock; -additional clearance is provided for the wider front trunnion. Tomorrow evening I'll post some detail pictures for you to see. Cheers |
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Posted: 9/2/2011 7:41:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Any progress on the Yugo version? Hi All, Today the first batch of Dog Leg covers for the YUGO was put into production. We should have them ready to go to the anodizer's on Tuesday. Usually it's 3-4 days at the anodize shop then we can ship. So maybe by Friday of next week if the scheduling works out. Fingers crossed. There are just a few small yet important differences on the YUGO model: -overall length is 1/2" shorter; -there are 15 instead of 17 rail slots due to shorter length; -the cover release button is configured to work with the YUGO button lock; -additional clearance is provided for the wider front trunnion. Tomorrow evening I'll post some detail pictures for you to see. Cheers Great news, looking forward to the pics. |
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Posted: 9/2/2011 11:40:27 AM EDT
[#30]
The TWS Gen2 is a major advance for the AK, but if it had one more feature I'd buy several immediately: A flip-up aperture sight that does not protrude above the picatinny rail when in its folded-down position. E.g., at the back of existing mount, above the dissasembly button but lower than the rail, add a little ledge, and mount a small flip-up aperture on it. Any chance of TWS doing this in a future model?
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Posted: 9/2/2011 11:49:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any progress on the Yugo version? Hi All, Today the first batch of Dog Leg covers for the YUGO was put into production. We should have them ready to go to the anodizer's on Tuesday. Usually it's 3-4 days at the anodize shop then we can ship. So maybe by Friday of next week if the scheduling works out. Fingers crossed. There are just a few small yet important differences on the YUGO model: -overall length is 1/2" shorter; -there are 15 instead of 17 rail slots due to shorter length; -the cover release button is configured to work with the YUGO button lock; -additional clearance is provided for the wider front trunnion. Tomorrow evening I'll post some detail pictures for you to see. Cheers Thank you! The Gen2 has been the single best thing I have ever done to my Saiga. My M70AB2 is waiting patiently. |
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Posted: 9/2/2011 4:45:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
The TWS Gen2 is a major advance for the AK, but if it had one more feature I'd buy several immediately: A flip-up aperture sight that does not protrude above the picatinny rail when in its folded-down position. E.g., at the back of existing mount, above the dissasembly button but lower than the rail, add a little ledge, and mount a small flip-up aperture on it. Any chance of TWS doing this in a future model? +1 on this. I didn't want the fixed peep because I didn't want it obscuring my sight picture with my red dot. |
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Posted: 9/2/2011 5:53:05 PM EDT
[#33]
got the email as well, will this fit the M70 RPK, been waiting for one for this gun for quite a while
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Posted: 9/3/2011 6:06:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The TWS Gen2 is a major advance for the AK, but if it had one more feature I'd buy several immediately: A flip-up aperture sight that does not protrude above the picatinny rail when in its folded-down position. E.g., at the back of existing mount, above the dissasembly button but lower than the rail, add a little ledge, and mount a small flip-up aperture on it. Any chance of TWS doing this in a future model? +1 on this. I didn't want the fixed peep because I didn't want it obscuring my sight picture with my red dot. This would also alow magnified optics to be mounted lower, while still having a BUIS. |
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Posted: 9/4/2011 10:09:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Here are some of the detail pics for the unique YUGO features. As stated before, the differences are small but, important.
Here is the YUGO release button lock that requires a special cover button. 
The standard YUGO button has a retaining bump under the right side flange. 
The TWS button (with spring) has a retaining ledge at the back to retain the YUGO function yet allow it to still slide for the cam lock feature of the TWS. 
The YUGO cover requires a little more clearance for the lock shaft. 
Lastly, the YUGO requires a slightly different clearance shape for the trunnion bulge. Cheers |
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Posted: 9/4/2011 10:13:02 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Here are some of the detail pics for the unique YUGO features. As stated before, the differences are small but, important. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0316.jpg Here is the YUGO release button lock that requires a special cover button. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0331.jpg The standard YUGO button has a retaining bump under the right side flange. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0332.jpg The TWS button (with spring) has a retaining ledge at the back to retain the YUGO function yet allow it to still slide for the cam lock feature of the TWS. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0337.jpg The YUGO cover requires a little more clearance for the lock shaft. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0338.jpg Lastly, the YUGO requires a slightly different clearance shape for the trunnion bulge. Cheers Awesome stuff. I have the money when you have the rail ready. No spacer on this design? |
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Posted: 9/4/2011 10:22:26 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Awesome stuff. I have the money when you have the rail ready. No spacer on this design? No spacer anymore. That is now an option for the Saiga guys. If you want a spacer you gotta check the box. The YUGO's will come with the button shown above. Of course, if you remove the lock shaft then any of the buttons will work in the YUGO. The first batch should be ready end of next week. I'll post updates as they become available. |
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Posted: 9/4/2011 6:50:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Rafaga,
Any thoughts on a flip-up rear sight? I'd like one that folds down below the rail––it could go at the very back of the TWS. |
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Posted: 9/13/2011 4:45:52 PM EDT
[#39]
I just installed the TWS cover on my Arsenal SLR-107F and I'm having the same problem with the button being inside the cover. When I rack the charging handle a few times, the button sticks out a bit, but I can't push it in by hand to open the cover, I have to use a screwdriver. Can anyone explain exactly which part they filed to make this work? And how far should it normally stick out?
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Posted: 9/13/2011 5:03:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I just installed the TWS cover on my Arsenal SLR-107F and I'm having the same problem with the button being inside the cover. When I rack the charging handle a few times, the button sticks out a bit, but I can't push it in by hand to open the cover, I have to use a screwdriver. Can anyone explain exactly which part they filed to make this work? And how far should it normally stick out? You need to file the bottom of the button. Is the button seating all the way in the rear trunnion groove? First try fitting it without a recoil spring. |
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Posted: 9/13/2011 5:16:59 PM EDT
[#41]
As I stated on your other post, if the cover is being held down I would fire it and see how far it goes back. You can always remove metal, but it is harder to put it back.
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Posted: 9/13/2011 9:26:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just installed the TWS cover on my Arsenal SLR-107F and I'm having the same problem with the button being inside the cover. When I rack the charging handle a few times, the button sticks out a bit, but I can't push it in by hand to open the cover, I have to use a screwdriver. Can anyone explain exactly which part they filed to make this work? And how far should it normally stick out? You need to file the bottom of the button. Is the button seating all the way in the rear trunnion groove? First try fitting it without a recoil spring. No, without the recoil spring it still doesn't slide into the groove. |
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Posted: 9/14/2011 6:00:54 AM EDT
[#43]
Then you need to file it. I had too as well. It needs to seat the same way the stock one does sliding into the groove all the way rearward. Firing it would not be a good idea. If it happens to force it back, it may wedge in there & then you'll be in a lot more trouble. Also the button is not engaging the cover all the way & may cause other damage.
Filing took me 15 minutes with some 300 grit sand paper. Just lay it flat, lay the button bottom flat & start to sand it down. Check every few minutes for fitment. When your done you can blue it with some alumni hide, & a few drops of oil to protect the metal. |
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Posted: 9/15/2011 8:15:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Does the button have to fit ALL the way into the groove, or just enough so that a little is sticking out of the cover? I sanded it to the point where it slides in about halfway without the recoil spring; just a bit is sticking out, and it's loose enough now that I can push it in by hand to open the cover, but I'm afraid I'm going to sand off too much. The bottom of the button is starting to get pretty thin.
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Posted: 9/15/2011 11:39:16 AM EDT
[#45]
I did it all the way as per TWS told me to. So IDK ask them. It should fit like the stock button & that goes all the way rearward.
The metal did get thin on mine to, but seems ok. Put it in & try to rack the slide a few times. It may just nudge it enough to clear it to the rear. |
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Posted: 9/15/2011 3:26:41 PM EDT
[#46]
You don't want the button to go all the way to the rear with the cover on. If it does you have no adjustment to keep it tight as it wears.
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Posted: 9/15/2011 5:52:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
You don't want the button to go all the way to the rear with the cover on. If it does you have no adjustment to keep it tight as it wears. Hey ACR, +1 on that. With the cover open the button should slide smoothly all the way to the back of the groove. We make them just a little on the tight side on purpose so you can custom fit. On some rifles they go in with no problem and on some they need just a little sanding or filing off the bottom surface. If we made the button loose enough to fit all AKs then it would be too loose for some. When the cover is down the button should only stick out about 1/8" or so. You don't want it to fully extend all the way back or you loose the clamping force. Sand lightly, shoot, and enjoy. 
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Posted: 9/15/2011 5:56:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Today we got back the first batch of YUGO covers from the anodize shop. We will be assembling and prepping these to go out next Mon/Tues.
Will post a picture of a YUGO rifle with cover tomorrow. Cheers. |
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Posted: 9/15/2011 6:10:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Today we got back the first batch of YUGO covers from the anodize shop. We will be assembling and prepping these to go out next Mon/Tues. Will post a picture of a YUGO rifle with cover tomorrow. Cheers. Hey Rafaga Any update on a new peep sight? |
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Posted: 9/17/2011 9:29:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Is there a guide for adjusting the fit?
Specifically I'd like to remove the safety lever gap. 
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