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Posted: 12/13/2005 3:13:54 AM EDT
I figured after the AWB the price would go down. On some guns (like the 10/22) clip prices have dropped fast. I understand the import limitation on the drums but why are no american manufac making them? The 90 round snail mag fro the AR has actually gone up in price since the ban?!?!?! Drums have also gone up. 75 round drum in cheaper than dirt in oct was 90 bucks, They are now 120! I swear that i only paid 100 for the snail drum and now they are 130. WHat is this happening?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:17:25 AM EDT
supply and demand
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:18:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:19:05 AM EDT by jimmy_hat01]
yeah but i expected supply to go up..... am i freaking wrong?!!? and if i am, why am i?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:21:25 AM EDT
The manufacturers probably aren't able to keep up with the increased demand. They haven't been making them in any quantity, if at all, in a few years. It takes time to get machines out of storage and operating again.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:28:30 AM EDT
Christmas- seasonal demand wait a month
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:36:02 AM EDT
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 4:05:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 4:11:49 PM EDT by Andreuha]

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato



This is correct. Capitalism at work.
And this will continue until someone decides to open a business which severely undercuts everyone else's prices, (ETA: and at the same time has enough willing suppliers to keep pace with the demand), forcing them(eta: everyone else) to lower their margins.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:09:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato



This is correct. Capitalism at work.
And this will continue until someone decides to open a business which severely undercuts everyone else's prices, (ETA: and at the same time has enough willing suppliers to keep pace with the demand), forcing them(eta: everyone else) to lower their margins.



Yes, but importing them is a different thing..

Prices in E.Europe have increased for EVERYTHING... They are no longer poor countries trying to make a buck to eat... They are still poor, but many are European Union members with things getting better everyday... Now they are trying to make money for a BMW.. They read the shotgun news and the internet....

Also, supposedly, anything coming out of Romania and Bulgaria now must go via Airfrieght (expensive).. Surface shippers will no longer accept gun related parts out of the Black sea.

Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:24:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato



This is correct. Capitalism at work.
And this will continue until someone decides to open a business which severely undercuts everyone else's prices, (ETA: and at the same time has enough willing suppliers to keep pace with the demand), forcing them(eta: everyone else) to lower their margins.



Yes, but importing them is a different thing..

Prices in E.Europe have increased for EVERYTHING... They are no longer poor countries trying to make a buck to eat... They are still poor, but many are European Union members with things getting better everyday... Now they are trying to make money for a BMW.. They read the shotgun news and the internet....

Also, supposedly, anything coming out of Romania and Bulgaria now must go via Airfrieght (expensive).. Surface shippers will no longer accept gun related parts out of the Black sea.





Somehow I don't think shipping is much of an issue altogether, and I wouldn't doubt it's BULLSHIT made up by greedy dealers who want to mark up rifles and cases of ammo an extra $50 and mags an extra $10 (even though if that were really the case, the cost of a case of ammo wouldn't go up by more than $5, rifle wouldn't go up more than a buck or two, and a few cents for mags).
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:25:39 PM EDT
After I sold my alst AK and mags later I got another, after looking at the new mag prices I sold it
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:47:16 PM EDT
Another thing is inflation, it takes some time for price changes to work their way through the economy. Items imported recently have been imported at new european price levels with new global shipping rates, into an American economy with new SG&A costs.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 5:09:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:
After I sold my alst AK and mags later I got another, after looking at the new mag prices I sold it


Lesson learned: don't sell guns! Prices on commodities like these only go in one direction.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 7:39:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato



This is correct. Capitalism at work.
And this will continue until someone decides to open a business which severely undercuts everyone else's prices, (ETA: and at the same time has enough willing suppliers to keep pace with the demand), forcing them(eta: everyone else) to lower their margins.



Yes, but importing them is a different thing..

Prices in E.Europe have increased for EVERYTHING... They are no longer poor countries trying to make a buck to eat... They are still poor, but many are European Union members with things getting better everyday... Now they are trying to make money for a BMW.. They read the shotgun news and the internet....

Also, supposedly, anything coming out of Romania and Bulgaria now must go via Airfrieght (expensive).. Surface shippers will no longer accept gun related parts out of the Black sea.





Somehow I don't think shipping is much of an issue altogether, and I wouldn't doubt it's BULLSHIT made up by greedy dealers who want to mark up rifles and cases of ammo an extra $50 and mags an extra $10 (even though if that were really the case, the cost of a case of ammo wouldn't go up by more than $5, rifle wouldn't go up more than a buck or two, and a few cents for mags).



Ever priced Airfrieght? Its expensive.... especially vs. a container on a ship..

All the Russian ammo leaves the Baltic sea via St.Petersburg, so thats not an issue.

And there is the inflation as someone mentioned.. Exchange rate as well.. The US Dollar has lost 40% of its value over seas since 9/11.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 8:20:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato



This is correct. Capitalism at work.
And this will continue until someone decides to open a business which severely undercuts everyone else's prices, (ETA: and at the same time has enough willing suppliers to keep pace with the demand), forcing them(eta: everyone else) to lower their margins.



Yes, but importing them is a different thing..

Prices in E.Europe have increased for EVERYTHING... They are no longer poor countries trying to make a buck to eat... They are still poor, but many are European Union members with things getting better everyday... Now they are trying to make money for a BMW.. They read the shotgun news and the internet....

Also, supposedly, anything coming out of Romania and Bulgaria now must go via Airfrieght (expensive).. Surface shippers will no longer accept gun related parts out of the Black sea.





Somehow I don't think shipping is much of an issue altogether, and I wouldn't doubt it's BULLSHIT made up by greedy dealers who want to mark up rifles and cases of ammo an extra $50 and mags an extra $10 (even though if that were really the case, the cost of a case of ammo wouldn't go up by more than $5, rifle wouldn't go up more than a buck or two, and a few cents for mags).



Ever priced Airfrieght? Its expensive.... especially vs. a container on a ship..

All the Russian ammo leaves the Baltic sea via St.Petersburg, so thats not an issue.

And there is the inflation as someone mentioned.. Exchange rate as well.. The US Dollar has lost 40% of its value over seas since 9/11.



Where the ammo leaves has nothing to do with dealers' bullshitting people

I don't think it's so much of the US losing value as it is the post-soviet economies picking up (remember, it was still a clusterfuck into the mid-late 90's in most countries, still is in some)

Never priced airfreight, but I wouldn't imagine that a container full of guns would come out to more than a few dollars a gun (and that's a lot of guns (four digits), especially in the tight-packed crates the eastern-bloc manufacturers ship them in). Is it really that expensive?
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 8:46:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato



This is correct. Capitalism at work.
And this will continue until someone decides to open a business which severely undercuts everyone else's prices, (ETA: and at the same time has enough willing suppliers to keep pace with the demand), forcing them(eta: everyone else) to lower their margins.



Yes, but importing them is a different thing..

Prices in E.Europe have increased for EVERYTHING... They are no longer poor countries trying to make a buck to eat... They are still poor, but many are European Union members with things getting better everyday... Now they are trying to make money for a BMW.. They read the shotgun news and the internet....

Also, supposedly, anything coming out of Romania and Bulgaria now must go via Airfrieght (expensive).. Surface shippers will no longer accept gun related parts out of the Black sea.





Somehow I don't think shipping is much of an issue altogether, and I wouldn't doubt it's BULLSHIT made up by greedy dealers who want to mark up rifles and cases of ammo an extra $50 and mags an extra $10 (even though if that were really the case, the cost of a case of ammo wouldn't go up by more than $5, rifle wouldn't go up more than a buck or two, and a few cents for mags).



Ever priced Airfrieght? Its expensive.... especially vs. a container on a ship..

All the Russian ammo leaves the Baltic sea via St.Petersburg, so thats not an issue.

And there is the inflation as someone mentioned.. Exchange rate as well.. The US Dollar has lost 40% of its value over seas since 9/11.



Where the ammo leaves has nothing to do with dealers' bullshitting people

I don't think it's so much of the US losing value as it is the post-soviet economies picking up (remember, it was still a clusterfuck into the mid-late 90's in most countries, still is in some)

Never priced airfreight, but I wouldn't imagine that a container full of guns would come out to more than a few dollars a gun (and that's a lot of guns (four digits), especially in the tight-packed crates the eastern-bloc manufacturers ship them in). Is it really that expensive?



Yes, really that expensive..

IT costs me about $200 for about 20 kilos to ship from Russia to Germany...

Meanwhile, you can ship a entire container from Europe to the USA for $1-2K..
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 4:28:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By Stottman:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.

If the 'they' are not tinkering with the prices and supply, tell me why SG could sell mags at about 2.50 a pop and still make a profit?

Just my .02
vato



This is correct. Capitalism at work.
And this will continue until someone decides to open a business which severely undercuts everyone else's prices, (ETA: and at the same time has enough willing suppliers to keep pace with the demand), forcing them(eta: everyone else) to lower their margins.



Yes, but importing them is a different thing..

Prices in E.Europe have increased for EVERYTHING... They are no longer poor countries trying to make a buck to eat... They are still poor, but many are European Union members with things getting better everyday... Now they are trying to make money for a BMW.. They read the shotgun news and the internet....

Also, supposedly, anything coming out of Romania and Bulgaria now must go via Airfrieght (expensive).. Surface shippers will no longer accept gun related parts out of the Black sea.





Somehow I don't think shipping is much of an issue altogether, and I wouldn't doubt it's BULLSHIT made up by greedy dealers who want to mark up rifles and cases of ammo an extra $50 and mags an extra $10 (even though if that were really the case, the cost of a case of ammo wouldn't go up by more than $5, rifle wouldn't go up more than a buck or two, and a few cents for mags).



Ever priced Airfrieght? Its expensive.... especially vs. a container on a ship..

All the Russian ammo leaves the Baltic sea via St.Petersburg, so thats not an issue.

And there is the inflation as someone mentioned.. Exchange rate as well.. The US Dollar has lost 40% of its value over seas since 9/11.



Where the ammo leaves has nothing to do with dealers' bullshitting people

I don't think it's so much of the US losing value as it is the post-soviet economies picking up (remember, it was still a clusterfuck into the mid-late 90's in most countries, still is in some)

Never priced airfreight, but I wouldn't imagine that a container full of guns would come out to more than a few dollars a gun (and that's a lot of guns (four digits), especially in the tight-packed crates the eastern-bloc manufacturers ship them in). Is it really that expensive?



Yes, really that expensive..

IT costs me about $200 for about 20 kilos to ship from Russia to Germany...

Meanwhile, you can ship a entire container from Europe to the USA for $1-2K..



So that DOES come out to a couple of bucks per gun figure 6x8x4 crates [very conservative est.], times 9 rifles/crate, comes out to 1728 guns. Conservative estimate here. Figure with the added insurance and firearms-specific export fees, let's say $10k/container, that's still under $5/gun.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:42:15 PM EDT
Somehow I don't think shipping is much of an issue altogether, and I wouldn't doubt it's BULLSHIT made up by greedy dealers who want to mark up rifles and cases of ammo an extra $50 and mags an extra $10 (even though if that were really the case, the cost of a case of ammo wouldn't go up by more than $5, rifle wouldn't go up more than a buck or two, and a few cents for mags).

Oh, come on now. I suppose the next time you are offered a 5 dollar an hour raise, you are going to turn it down just so YOU won't be a GREEDY PERSON....give me a break. That is business. IF you don't like it, don't buy it, but in the same position, you would sell it for what the market is going for too.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:39:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vatolocal:
No No No..........The distributors are artificially inflating the market. THEY are limiting the supply therefore INCREASING the prices. The communist countries made hundreds of millions of these things.


So, do you really think that the distributors bought a bunch of drum magazines but are not selling them because they want to keep the price high on something they're not selling? How much money will they make by not selling? You've made this way too complicated. It's nothing more than simple supply and demand. For whatever reason the supply has not increased. This is just a guess on my part, but perhaps the factories that make such things in Romania are not making 7.62x39 drum magazines because they're not making them for their military. Perhaps they've got orders for other things. If it was as simple as distributors being able to manipulate the market so easily, everything would be super expensive. It's not. That's not how capitalism works. The fact is that there is a buck to be made in the AK drum market. Sooner or later someone will supply to meet the demand.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 1:09:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 1:11:49 PM EDT by Andreuha]

Originally Posted By DocGP:
Somehow I don't think shipping is much of an issue altogether, and I wouldn't doubt it's BULLSHIT made up by greedy dealers who want to mark up rifles and cases of ammo an extra $50 and mags an extra $10 (even though if that were really the case, the cost of a case of ammo wouldn't go up by more than $5, rifle wouldn't go up more than a buck or two, and a few cents for mags).

Oh, come on now. I suppose the next time you are offered a 5 dollar an hour raise, you are going to turn it down just so YOU won't be a GREEDY PERSON....give me a break. That is business. IF you don't like it, don't buy it, but in the same position, you would sell it for what the market is going for too.



There's greed, and then there's LYING, which was the key term there (because greed is fine, we're all greedy, but unethical behavior is not, which is why I try not to support lying dealers if and when I see them LYING when trying to sell me something). If I get a raise, I'm happy, but it's another thing if I LIE to my boss in order to get that raise. That's what I was pointing out.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:08:35 PM EDT
You can get 4 30rnd mags in a pouch for $32 from WhatACountry inc.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:00:44 PM EDT
it is not the 10, 20, 30, 40 or even 70 rd stick mags that are hard to find or expensive. It is the drums. That is my complaint
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:09:08 AM EDT
military gun supply just jacked up the prices of their 75rd. Chinese drums $14 for the new year.
Price was $125 but now they're at the "wholesale" "price break" cost of $139
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:49:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Q-gunner2:
You can get 4 30rnd mags in a pouch for $32 from WhatACountry inc.



What is the condition of 'used' on these mags?

Some companies are worse than others, but I don't mind buying servicable and usable mags.

Any reports on these mags would be appreciated.


Thanks,

DK
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:07:59 PM EDT
Retailers and wholesalers will order large qty's of merchandice and the sell off a percentage cheap to cover all their expences and pay the bills. After all expences are covered they then raise the prices to make their profit. There is nothing wrong with making a profit. Some dealers are less than honest and some are they all get their just advertising.
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