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Posted: 4/10/2006 7:42:30 PM EDT
I had been under the impression that it was OK to own steelcore but no longer OK to buy or sell it. After seeing a few steel core sales here on EE, I'm guessing that's wrong?

Are there any restrictions on buying/selling already imported steelcore ammo, if so what are the restrictions? Any state line issues to worry about?

Thanks
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:05:50 PM EDT
go ahead and buy all you want
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:17:25 PM EDT
Unless you're having it imported, you should be fine.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:08:22 AM EDT
Thanks guys!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:43:24 PM EDT
If I had some I'd give it to you. The crap is worthless.
- Nealio
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:56:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KTMNealio:
If I had some I'd give it to you. The crap is worthless.
- Nealio




This is going to require an explanation. Care to elaborate?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 9:05:44 PM EDT
I'd say "the crap is worthless" if you only plan on trying to shoot at a shooting range. I could see contingencies where some of that would be useful.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:34:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 10:35:00 PM EDT by badz2801]
Ill bet you don’t get any better penetration on 1/4 steel plate at 100 yards then regular wolf FMJ.

I base this on my tests with SS109 at that distance and with that kind of plate. When I used 5.45x39 FMJ wolf it actually came flying back at me (which is why some Russians/Afgahans don’t like the round).

7.62x39 FMJ wolf penetrated just as well as the SS109, and left a larger hole.

Thus, if your buying the stuff b/c it will penetrate better that’s probably a false hope. Mild steel core is nothing like true AP which is hardened steel or depleted uranium.

If you just want blasting ammo, then it’s a great source considering how ammo has dried up.

5.45x39 is a fun light round to shoot, but once it starts bouncing back at me it looses its appeal real quick.


Oh yes...if it can be imported and sold to the general public then its legal for you to buy.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:45:10 AM EDT
I've neer seen anything that has said the steel core does anything better than an FMJ or a solid copper round, so to me is just innaccurate ammo. People "think" it penetrates steel better but with less mass and less structural integrity, I think a solid copper round would do MUCH better.

- Nealio
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:18:33 AM EDT
i think that the biggest thing going for the Norinco steel-core stuff is that it is supposedly more accurate than the wolf or whatever else. i've HEARD that the accuracy is due to a .311 bullet diameter in the chicom stuff as opposed to .308 diameter in the rest. wouldn't be surprised if it is a hotter round, too.

gotta get me some of the stuff to see for myself.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:23:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KTMNealio:
I've neer seen anything that has said the steel core does anything better than an FMJ or a solid copper round, so to me is just innaccurate ammo. People "think" it penetrates steel better but with less mass and less structural integrity, I think a solid copper round would do MUCH better.

- Nealio





Contrary to common belief, the use of steel was a cost saving measure rather than one to increase the penetration. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_x_39_mm)

The old Chinese steel core ammo was/is no better or worse than any other military 7.62X39 ammo. BATF is responsible for the AP myth.

Here was an opportunity to get all sorts of free personal publicity in all sorts of media. All they had to do was introduce a bill with a catchy title to outlaw the import, manufacture of sale of.. of what? The title, having been stolen from NBC, was easy: "A bill to stop the proliferation of 'cop-killer' bullets." "Cop-Killer" was the most exciting label to come along since "Saturday Night Special" and just as vague. Its "definition" was simply:

Any bullet that when fired from a 5" barreled handgun is capable of penetrating the equivalent of 18 layers of Kevlar. Technical experts of the FBI, BATF, Secret Service and police forensic labs throughout the country felt this definition to be impractical and unenforceable, but none of them could think of a good one.

A four-year campaign to outlaw so-called "armor-piercing" or "cop-killer" bullets began. During that time NRA-ILA successfully fought off several bills that would have had grave implications for American gun owners and dealers. August 1986 saw passage of H.R- 3121, which while symbolically offensive, greatly narrowed the definition of proscribed bullets (earlier bills threatened to outlaw up to 85% of big game ammunition), and contained no criminal penalties for dealer or private possession, transfer or use of such bullets. An exception was made for misuse in a violent federal crime.

The law defined offending bullets as "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun" and constructed entirely (except for trace elements) of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium or a combination of those metals. Further, the Secretary of the Treasury may exempt a projectile covered in the "armor-piercing" definition, but may not expand the law to include projectiles not expressly included in the established definition.

Reprinted from The American Rifleman, February 1989
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:17:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 9:26:31 PM EDT by steveinct]
If you go to the ATF website and punch in keyword "armor piercing" you will pull up a page that lists what is and what is not considered "armor piercing"

Specifically, the ATF listing of "armor piercing" ammo seems to concern only a certain few handgun
rounds namely, some .25 ACP and some 9mm (9x19) pistol loads as armor piercing due to the fact that they are constructed of certain materials that when fired from acutal pistols can defeat some but not
all soft armor vests.

Included were: .25 ACP by MSC industries; another from some firm in Georgia and a few obscure 9mm
para. rounds I've never heard of. I don't recall offhand if the much maligned, news media monster
KTW was on this list or not. The point is moot since KTW was NEVER sold via commercial channels
anyway since 1972. Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge no police officer has ever been shot with one. (Thanks to an early 1980s report by NBC's Jack Perkins, the media has successfully educated criminals in what works and what doesn't and this is reflected in FBI UCR crime stats on officers shot
since then)

What is specifically EXEMPT from the definition of "AP" are 5.56mm "SS-109" ; "green tip" or equivalents and caliber .30, "black tip" "AP" ammo (which was at one time, the preferred long range .30 cal match ammo due to the heavier 165 grain bullet's performance and accuracy at longer range
stages of national match shooting before the advent of modern, match ammo)

It is interesting to point out, however, that 7.62 NATO M-61 "black tip" which is essentially the same bullet, is NOT EXEMPT and IS considered to be illegal, "AP" ammo.

Why that is I can't say for sure. It probably has to do with the CMP or DCM years ago. Since match shooters shot .30-06 black tip all the time, it was circulated in distribution whereas I don't believe
the .308 black tip AP ever was. That's the only rationale I can think of
since their practical performance is identical *about 1/4" steel plate penetration at 300m and 1/5" at 500m. They are identical in construction, and almost identical in weight 148 gr vs 150 gr and velocity 2780 fps nominal for 7.62 and 2850 fps nominal for .30-06.

Really stupid laws!
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