Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 2/8/2006 12:41:14 PM EDT
I just had a customer in my office that works at Lake City, and he told me that they are producing 7.62x39 at Lake City. He told me that they are doing it for the Iraqi Military. I don't get it? What a deal. They are getting our 1st line quality stuff. I hope our guys are getting what they need! He said that the Arsenal is running full tilt.

Has anyone else heard of anything like this?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:14:54 PM EDT
I guess I just don't understand how much freaking ammo the iraqi military needs. Wolf alone produces rediculous amounts of ammo per month, and almost all of it is going to Iraq.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:31:28 PM EDT
Do you have a link for where to buy these by the case?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:36:34 PM EDT
I live less than 5 miles from Lake City. I know they have made 7.62x39 in the past. I have some fired cases from LC which someone gave me years ago. They have no headstamp at all. I recently found mt boxer 7.62x39 cases at the range(no headstamp). I understand that they are only using 10% of capacity right now. They had been working a lot of overtime but I understand they are working less now. They may be producing the ammo right now. I think no problem to produce all that is needed. I know they have put on new people in the last year.
Good Shooting,
Sparky1
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:12:06 PM EDT
My gosh, I wish I could buy some of that....

Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:36:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
My gosh, I wish I could buy some of that....




Imagine if they made brass-cased steel-core 7.62X39. . .
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:20:21 PM EDT
oh dear god let some of this hit the market. although if it did hit the market it would end up at ammoman for $400 per thousand or some such nonesense. id just be happy if supply got back to where ti was 6months ago.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:45:49 PM EDT
aren't there like billions of rounds stockpiled by Saddam in Iraq already? Seems like a waste to buy new stuff.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:49:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
aren't there like billions of rounds stockpiled by Saddam in Iraq already? Seems like a waste to buy new stuff.



I think that we destroyed the stocks there. Makes about as much sence as cutting up the M14s huh?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:02:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
aren't there like billions of rounds stockpiled by Saddam in Iraq already? Seems like a waste to buy new stuff.



From what I've heard, most of the stockpiles people have of 7.62x39 over there is in bad shape and not very reliable.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:22:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By colt100:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
aren't there like billions of rounds stockpiled by Saddam in Iraq already? Seems like a waste to buy new stuff.



I think that we destroyed the stocks there. Makes about as much sence as cutting up the M14s huh?



I *think* I remember reading that it was destroyed for safety reasons. Saddam might have booby trapped the ammo making it extremely dangerous to shoot.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:01:50 PM EDT
We collected the guns and ammo, and the gov't ordered all of it destroyed, I guess for the same reason the cops destroy guns collected now. "So the criminals don't get their hands on them". But now we have to buy all new ammo, all new weapons.

It isn't too hard to take an AK apart, check it over, check headspace and boom you know if it is booby trapped or not.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:19:45 PM EDT
Uncle Sam works in strange ways.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 2:30:22 PM EDT
The DoD has contracted LC and others to produce 7.62x39 since Vietnam. I have a few boxes of "sterile" 7.62x39 which were made in the early 70's. The box is white and 7.62x39 is printed on the box in large plain black letters, with no other markings appearing anywhere on the box/cartridge. The DoD maintains large supplies of AK's and thier ammo for deployment and training. OPFOR maintains a Warsaw army in the NV desert which uses AK's in additon to NATO equipment configured as Soviet armor/jets. Training elements use AK's to familiarize our troops to foriegn weapons and some units actually issue them to soldiers. SOCOM maintains large stockpiles of AK's from many different countries which it issues to its soldiers for combat missions. Large stockpiles or domestically produced ammo is needed for practice and combat.
Considering we are at war and have our own ammo shortages to worry about, I doubt that much if any of the LC M43 ammo will be sent to Iraq. If anything, it is being produced for our own reasons which I have already outlined. The task of re-arming Iraq has fallen upon Easter European coalition members/supporters. European ammo can be provided for less money in greater quanitity without clogging up our own ammo supplies, which are being strengthened for the inevitible conflict with Iran. Compare the cost of Wolf 7.62x39 to Winchester. This is excellent ammo which appears on the surplus market every time they make a run, which seems to be every couple of years of so. Keep your eyes peeled for it as it sometimes pops up. Its excellent ammo, accurate and powerful.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 4:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 6:20:13 PM EDT by P-245]

Originally Posted By DBAR:
I just had a customer in my office that works at Lake City, and he told me that they are producing 7.62x39 at Lake City. He told me that they are doing it for the Iraqi Military. I don't get it? What a deal. They are getting our 1st line quality stuff. I hope our guys are getting what they need! He said that the Arsenal is running full tilt.

Has anyone else heard of anything like this?


Sorry folks, he's wrong. Total bunk. Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is not, and has not for many, many years, made any 7.62x39 ammunition. The contract for Iraqi ammunition went to Russia IIRC and that contracting was not done by any the Services. If you look at the past 10 years (or more) of the Services' President's Budget submissions, there is no request for 7.62x39 ammunition. I would't waste any time looking for this ammo.


Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
The DoD maintains large supplies of AK's and thier ammo for deployment and training.


Large?? Define "large". You make it sound like we have as many AKs as we do ARs.


OPFOR maintains a Warsaw army in the NV desert which uses AK's in additon to NATO equipment configured as Soviet armor/jets.

The Army's "OPFOR" (or as the rest of us know it, The National Training Center) is located at Fort Irwin, California, not Nevada. The Air Force has their "OPFOR" at Nellis AFB, Nevada, (Red Flag exercises) IIRC.

Lake City is busy cranking out as much 5.56x45, 7.62x51, and .50 cal ammunition it's workforce (and DoD funding) can produce.


...without clogging up our own ammo supplies, which are being strengthened for the inevitible conflict with Iran.

Care to expand on your knowledge of DoD war plans??? Personally, I would be more worried about North Korea. BTW, what ARE we doing to strengthen our own ammo supplies?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:21:20 PM EDT
Sorry, I got confused between Army and Air Force training center locations.... We don't have as many AK's as M16's*since you want to be specific, the military doesn't use AR15's.* We do have sizable numbers of AK variants for training an operational use. SOCOM maintains AK's which it issues to its forces for operational use and other elements of the military use AK's for training purposes. I don't have an exact number of how many AK's are in our arsenals, but its safe to say there are at least several thousand, but certainly less than standard issue weapons. In additon to the AK, the DoD maintains other foriegn weapons for the same purpose, albeit in lesser numbers.

North Korea is not the threat that Iran is. North Korea is certainly a more formiddible military threat as thier military is more advanced and better equipped, however Iran is more dangerous. Iran oppenly supports terrorists and believes terrorism to be a legitimate means of warefare. Iran would certainly be willing to equip terrorists with nuclear weapons, and the only reason this hasn't happend is because they currently lack the capability. DPRK soldiers are motivated by force/politics/propaganda. They are completely shut off from the rest of the world and are constantly propagized to believe America is the root of the Korean war and is an evil imperialist nation which seeks to destroy N. Korea. For one reason or another, they believe it. Kim Il Jong is certainly an evil despot, but he isn't stupid. He is using his nuclear program to black mail the United States and Asia. He knows should he push to far, like his father did in the late 60's and early 70's we will take him down.*Incursions accross the 38th parralell and violence against ROK and American soldiers were at a high and air strikes were launched and underway when DPRK

relented and the missions were cancelled* OIF cememted this fact and proved American resolve.
While they are confident in thier military power, inflated by propaganda they understand they will not be able to defeat the USA and Asia in a military conflict and that if they push to far, conflict will be unavoidible. North Korea is using its nuclear weapons as a means to get economic security/advantage, and regional security second. They are not in a hurry to have a nuclear exchange with the United States, which is what the ultimate outcome would be. DPRK has long since been building up armor/artillery in and along the DMZ in addition to tunneling accross the border and they would smash into Seoul before we could resist. Tactical nuclear weapons would be our only option, as we have stated and they know thier modest 10-20 Atom bombs cannot compete with our strategic arsenal. When they don't get exactly what they want from the 6 party talks, they will conduct a test and again ratchet up the tensions in the region....mark my words. Since we have deposed Saddam, he has cooled his rhetoric a little bit and the situation has stablized some.

Iran is religously opposed to the United States and its soliders are extremely fanatical as is thier leadership. God is an extremely powerful motivator. DPRK, while fanatical as well, don't have a history of blowing themselves up while yelling "Kim is great". Politicism isn't as strong of a motivator as god, which is a powerful and mind altering drug.Iran is also a significant military power. Iran mopped the floor with Iraq, which was the 4th largest military in the world at the time. They were not able to respond to Iraqs strategic chemical attacks, which motivated them to develop special weapons. Iran openly supports terrorism and reguards it as a legitimate way to wage war. Iranian soldiers are highly motivated, well trained and well equipped. Iranian soldiers have been conducting operations against coalition forces in Iraq, in addition to arming and importing insurgents. Iran has sworn to destroy Israel and is quite serious about this agenda. The new president is very radical, as are his constituants. It is already believed that DPRK already

has atleast 3-5 nuclear devices, thus they have crossed the point of no return. Iran does not yet have a nuclear weapon, but edges closer every day. Just as Israel did in 1981 to Iraq, its widely beileved that the IAF will launch pre-emptive attacks against Irans nuclear facilites, which they have promised to do. When the IAF does this, America will be an accessory if allow IAF strike aircraft unhidered access to American airspace. Irreguardless, this will appear to be a joint military venture which it will most certainly be. No one will tolerate a nuclear Iran and each day that passes is one day cloers to an "atomic Iatollah-Assahollah". Since Iran has recently broken IAEA seals and started enriching urainium, the time is drawing near for pre-emption. To strike to late would allow them to use a nuclear device to retaliate or creat a modern Chernobyl. The time is rapidly approaching and the IDF and IAF have been conducting training operations in the Negev. Iran has threatened to attack Dimona and respond in kind against American interests all over the world. I war with Iran will be extremely ugly and will likely turn into a chemical/nuclear exchange.

Iran will certainly retaliate, where Iraq did not and the escalation will threaten Iran's existance. Iraq would have certainly used special weapons as they did in Desert Storm if they still had some.
We would use nuclear weapons against Iran if they were on the Canadian border and had the ability to take over the United States. One variable in the air strikes is that the exact locations of the putonium program is unknown. Its believed Iran is running parralell programs, above and below ground and destruction of all is a huge task. If anyone can do it, its the Americans and Israel. The DPRK situation has peaked, IMO and they are already belived to be a nuclear power, so its too late to pre-empt. We have the ability to stop Iran from developing the bomb, and we will do just that. Iran supports terrorism and would certainly be willing to use terrorists to deliver a nuclear weapon to the United States or Israel. The situation is very grave and will ultimatly have a military conclusion. Iran is run by and infested with zealots who hate America/Israel and are sworn to the destruction of both. They believe Americas military comitments have stretched our

military to the breaking point and this will restrict military operations, as will the close proximity of American interests in the region*America, the sequels AKA Afghanistan and Iraq*. IAF/IDF has been training for a comprehensive air strike/special operations incursion into Iran. According to a source, IDF special forces will enter Iran using Iranian aircraft/uniforms and infiltrate compounds and deploy German Shepards with satchel charges into the facilities to destroy them. Sounds like a joke, but it isn't...this has been confirmed. IAF will conduct airstirkes and support of the ground units. American special forces have repeatidly been sighted/accused of leading incursiosn into Iranian terroitory with nuclear detection equipment to map out facilities for air strikes. Two years ago, North Korea would have been a serious threat. Since then, the threat has peaked and this is symbolized by our recall of B1 and B2 bombers from Guam, which were sent there at the height of the tensions. My estimate, IAF/American joint air strikes against Iranian

nuclear infastructure with B2/F117 from Dieago Garcia/Aviano*most likely Muslim nations will be opposed, especially the Saudis* and Tomahawk cruise missiles supporting IAF F15 and F16's. They have already been sanctioned, and this has not deterred thier progress. The UN may not resolve the problem in an adequate amount of time, but its already in the hands of the Security Council and the Europeans are on board and concered as well. I think there will be airstrikes in under 2 years, without announcement. I don't think they will be given a warning to comply like Iraq was. Granted, they will be given repeated chances to comply*and they won't* and we will hit them with out the warning Iraq was given. You wanted elaboration, you got it....
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:18:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nugentgl:

Originally Posted By colt100:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
aren't there like billions of rounds stockpiled by Saddam in Iraq already? Seems like a waste to buy new stuff.



I think that we destroyed the stocks there. Makes about as much sence as cutting up the M14s huh?



I *think* I remember reading that it was destroyed for safety reasons. Saddam might have booby trapped the ammo making it extremely dangerous to shoot.




Guys- I was there, from Mar 04 to Mar 05, and I had the opportunity to work with the newly formed Iraqi Nat'l Guard. The first thing I found out, is that the Iraqi's had tons of locally produced 7.62X39. The s4econd thing is that no one wanted to shoot it. When I asked why, the interpretor told me "Iraqi ammo is shit. Sometimes, go "POP", not bang, sometime peice of shell, stays in AK"

I took 4 mags of IRQ ammo and 4 Mags of Russian/Czech.
I had 4 case head seperations, 6 Failures to fire, multiple failures to feed/extract with the IRQ ammo. I had no stoppages with the "foriegn" ammo.

We did destroy much small arms ammo, as well as mortar rounds, mines, handgrenades, you name it. Even Ground to air missiles. It's better for us to destroy the stuff, or rather, turn it in to EOD for destruction, as opposed to letting the opposition get their hands on it.

I know a great many AK-series, RPD's/PKM's all went into the ING armories...I just want to know where all of those Sten's, Sterlings, Enfeild MKII's III's, IV's and a bunch of other C&R bolt guns went.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:27:03 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:25:01 PM EDT
When i was there (Sept 04-Feb 05) all the ICDC used russian or east euro type ammos, the cans had cyrillic lettering and were of the "wolf" type. i'm not saying it was wolf, i hate perpetuating rumours, it's just thats what it was, at least up in Mosul.
Top Top