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Posted: 8/16/2003 8:41:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2003 8:46:44 AM EDT by SailorDude]
Since Wolf and Barnaul seem to be the two basic 5.45 alternatives, thought I'd bench them both with my ORF/Bulgarian: Kobra EKP-1S-03M.

3 runs of five rounds with each brand; Wolf 60 gr HP and Barnaul 60 gr FMJ

Results:

WOLF
Avg. MV 2,925 fpm
Hi-Lo 46 fpm
Std. Dev. 29 fpm
@ 100 yds. 4.0"

BARNAUL

Avg. MV 2,990 fpm
Hi-Lo 38 fpm
Std. Dev. 23 fpm
@ 100 yds. 3.5"

Your results may vary.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 11:29:24 AM EDT
Thanks for the data. Shows another minor but not huge preference for Barnaul in 5.45.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 3:09:22 PM EDT
RS39 and I have pretty much decided that we were not satisfied with the last round of 5.45 testing . We will do a much more extensive test in the future with more scopes and a chrono as well.

Your results seem to show about what we have found. Barnaul wins in this caliber as well, but it is much closer.

One more round of testing and we will know for sure.

Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 5:14:22 PM EDT
We will do a much more extensive test in the future with more scopes and a chrono as well.

Knowing you guys you'll probably cheat and use some young guy who can actually see for the accuracy tests.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 2:32:11 AM EDT
Scopes don't hurt either.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 3:03:50 AM EDT

Excuse me for having an opinion cause I'm a FNG, and I shoot 7.62, but I'm beginning to believe that it is not he brand or the bullet type that affects accuracy, but the factory from which they came.

It seems Barnaul beats Wolf in most comparisons, and Uly is close to Barnaul (though some say better.)

But Silver Bear is sometimes Uly and Sometimes Barnaul (and apparently also another factory that starts with a K who's ammo I've never seen.)

I suspect in your future tests, if you note not only what the brand (Silver Bear, Brown Bear, RAM, SASPAN, etc) but the factory that made the ammo in that brand, it might prove enlightening.

I suspect that the factories just crank out ammo in a given caliber, say 7.62 FMJ, and just switch out the box printing configurations for whomever is marketing the ammo they are making that day... my "RAM" ammo was in boxes with a clearly pasted on "Russian Ammo Manufacturing "brand over the "Silver Bear" brand that was previously on the box!

But I could be wrong, and its more to it than that. It sure would be nice if we just could rank them by factory and know-- whatever the importer or markings on the box-- whether the ammo was better or worse than average.

Cause I suspect we're going to have "Arctic Fox" and "Eastern Leopard" and a dozen other brands comming in the next 5 years or so-- all made by those same 4 factories.

Link Posted: 8/17/2003 5:58:08 AM EDT
fpm ??
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 5:59:39 AM EDT
Don, good points. For our testing in 5.45 we only tested the ammo that is common and easy to get. Uly, Wolf FMJ & HP, Barnaul FMJ, and RWS HP. This is listed in the results.

For our 7.62 X 39 testing we did the same thing, although about 10 different types made in pretty much the same factories has come out in the few months since the test.

We will always be sure to give full information on the ammo tested and the rifle used as well as any other important info.

As for accuracy.......well there have been books written on this, but I will give you the short version.

Different ammo shoots to a different point of aim, even in the same rifle. In most cases the differences may not be noticeable until several hundres yards out, in others you may not notice.

Guns are machines,and no two machines work exactly the same even if identical.

Example. When I went through shrap shooters school years ago, we were issued brand new rifles from the factory. We were lined up by rifle serial number and told to shoot from the same lot of ammo. The difference in accurracy was over 2 cm. Change in ammo, the differnce was 1 cm, but different rifles shot worse than they had before. Change in ammo again......

Bing this back to 7.62 X 39 now, and factory does have a lot to do with it due to quality standards, bullet design has some effect,but bullet design really does not start having much effect until about 300y in most calibers. Many guys swear by Wolf. We found that Wolf sucked in our test. It could have been that the rifles we used all did not like Wolf.

There is no absolute in accuracy. You can have the "best" rifle
and the best ammo and poor accuracy if they combination does not like eachother. On the other hand, you can have a crappy worn out rifle with cheap ammo, and have great accuracy, if the combination works well. (I have a worn out pitted barrled 1905 Swede Mauser that shoots 1 inch groups no matter what I put through it. If I do my part)

What it comes down to, is find what shoots best in your gun for the price and go with it. I have been selling ammo for just over 10 years now. I will tell you the same thing I tell every customer who asked about accuracy.

No one can guarantee you accuracy with any ammo, only quality. Try a small amount of each brand or type, then see what works for you.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:57:33 AM EDT
Thanks for pointing that out, Ober. I don't think most folks (who usually stay inside 200 yds) have any appreciation for the odd, quirky personalities individual rifles have.

Buying the "best" ammo and "best" rifle doesn't guarantee that the combo will hit the side of a barn. Only patience and tedious experimentation will get you there.

SD
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 5:54:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Derek45:
fpm ??




I think that should be FPS.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 7:24:22 AM EDT
There are definitely more ammo brands than factories in Russia. The Silver Bear Match in our 7.62 test was Barnaul mfg, and shot close to std Barn fmj. Other branded factory ammo has shot like factory seconds in our range sessions.
Our follow up 5.45 round may not have some kid with fresh eyes, but we can make do with adding Campy5.45Bob to the mix.
And it only takes 50ft to see what ammo your .22 prefers in target contests :)
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