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Posted: 7/12/2003 6:26:54 PM EDT
Ok AK guru's
What ammo do I stock up on to feed my beloved Ak should i need to fight off the commie hordes?
Commonly available rnds dont fragment or expand too well.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 9:46:04 PM EDT
Yugoslavian surplus does frament as well as tumble. I would treat all of this ammo as corrosive now as most of the remaining stock has been re-packaged.

The newer rounds from Wolf and Barnaul are said to tumble better than the origional Soviet military round, but I personally would not count on this alone.

The new Barnaul 125grain soft point is said to expand very well, and is no ore expensive than the rest of the commie ammo. The Wolf 154grain is both acurate, and provides more pentration while also expanding well. Again, cost is the same as other commie ammo.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 1:11:42 AM EDT
Hmm, well toughie there......

But for sheer wounding from the gelatin profiles I have is the Winchester Soft point loading (it is almost as effective as the 30/30 JSP loading).
Caveat, But I have not seen the gelatin profiles of the newer Russian rounds-Unless you are in the military and restricted to FMJ or have to punch through body armor or substatial intermediate barriers, in all other cases soft point ammo is more effective than the best FMJ's that I am aware of.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 6:15:40 AM EDT
I personally pick what is accurate and absolutely reliable. This is far more of a concern IMO then wound profiles in gelatin.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 3:07:13 PM EDT
Buy a few boxes of Wolf 154sp and Barnaul 125sp, see which is more accurate in your particular gun.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 3:24:17 PM EDT
I agree with RS39 when it comes to soft point ammo in this caliber.

As a combat round though, soft points are not good at defeating barriers, and that brings you back to the standard FMJ.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:53:43 AM EDT
I pick what works....always...first and foremost. Accuracy is relative, mostly to the shooter. Most ammo is easily accurate to 200M when it comes to hitting a man sized target in the chest-the most accurate is not always the best for wounding. That is why I use ballistic gelatin profiles as a REFERANCE and if the bullet is consistant in gelatin (besides what I hear from anecdotal reports) it usually performs well IRL.
But what good is punching a clean accurate hole when, I can have a bullet that may hit a little further away and do significant damage-that makes up for any aiming error on my part or perhaps innacuracy of the bullet? Just my opinion.
As for barrier penetration what is the norm? are you going to be in Africa with 1' thick mud brick walls all around, or in America with paper thin interior walls and thin brick facings. Are you likely going to engage lightly armored vehicles or a car? Are you a civilian going to shoot FMJs that have excessive penetration in your house with perhaps a wife and kid or two, or are you a soldier with more concern with shooting at a fleeting target through a wall? Where do you want to go. As for most humans having a mix of what is accurate has decent penetration and target destruction it is possible to tailor make your needs. The ammo I prefer is not available in the U.S. anymore so I don't write about it-cause I cannot get it anymore but it does for my needs well when I am out of the country and can find it. In the U.S. chances are I am not going to engage armored vehicles and body armor, my biggest barrier to worry about is probably a thin wall or a automotive windscreen-so I will have a small amout of hoarded steel core, A bunch of lead-core FMJ and a decent amount of proven soft point and special purpose stuff that I have picked up in my travels for whatever else. That is the beauty of not having to work under the strictures of the Hague convention-I can pick and choose. Just my opinion
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 4:42:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 4:57:38 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]
The Lapua 125 gr Spire Point is a great round. In tests conducted by Dr. Gary Roberts it penetrated to roughly 17" and expanded to .62". That is very good performance for defensive ammunition. He compared it's performance to that of the Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw which means it would be a good option for when barrier penetration is required.

The Winchester Super-X Power Point also tested by Dr. Roberts penetrated 14.4" of gel and expanded to .56", which is also very good performance. This load would probably be the one to go with if you want good expansion but fear overpenetration.

I have never tried the Russian SP's in this caliber so I can't comment on well they work. But they are cheap and may be better for stocking larger quantities.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 4:55:35 AM EDT
The Lapua 125 gr Spire Point is a great round. In tests conducted by Dr. Gary Roberts it penetrated to roughly 17" and expanded to .62". That is very good performance for defensive ammunition. He compared it's performance to that of the Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw which means it would be a good option for when barrier penetration is required.

The Winchester Super-X Power Point also tested by Dr. Roberts penetrated 14.4" of gel and expanded to .56", which is also very good performance. This load would probably be the one to go with if you want good expansion but fear overpenetration.

I have never tried the Russian SP's in this caliber so I can't comment on how well they work. But they are cheap and may be better for stocking larger quantities.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 10:13:23 AM EDT
The Uly hp is the most damaging. David Fortier tested it in gelatin, 1-2 inches in it starts fragmenting, about 14 inches total penetration with complete fragmentation.
That is at close range tho. I shot water filled milk jugs at 25 yards and less and the Uly was way better than fmj and better than Barnaul softpoints. At 50 yards, the difference between Uly hp's and Barnaul sp's was not noticeable.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 11:53:16 AM EDT
Thanks dacat, do you have any link to the rest of the article? I am glad that at least one hp AK round expands decently. My informal wood tests have seen no real benfit to hp Wolf or Barnaul compared to fmj, but the sp is pretty effective.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 5:36:31 PM EDT
No sorry I am going on memory for the test, this was maybe two years ago. The round did not expand really, but fragmented explosively.
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