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Posted: 7/29/2002 7:52:23 PM EDT
I was just on another site where some gentleman was selling some Norinco steel core ammo for about .40 a pop. Evidently, this stuff is getting harder to find. Why, I do not know. A few weeks before this I ask about some of the ammo I had sitting around for my SKS and am shooting out of my new SAR 1. It is both the Norinco and the Chinese copper washed ammo. I think it may be the same stuff I have been blasing away. I did cut one of the Norinco bullets in half and did find it to be steel cored. In fact it looks like a core within a core, both steel. Should I be holding on to this for future use?
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 1:25:15 AM EDT
obershutze is partially correct. It is illegal for certain FFLs to sell AP Ammo. to civilians...I believe this only applies to certain types of FFLs and not all of them. I'll chekc into it.

Any other FFL (not specifically banned from doing so) may sell it as long as they keep certain sales records similar to those kept if you sell a gun...

Any of the Ammo. imported before Oly Arms f'ed it up...can legally be bought and sold to civilians...
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 1:29:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 1:59:34 AM EDT by cc48510]
18 USC 44 Sec. 921
§ 921(a)(17)(B)
§ 921(a)(17)(C)


(a) As used in this chapter -

    (17)

      (B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means -


        (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

        (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.


      (C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

Link Posted: 9/15/2002 1:32:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 1:58:52 AM EDT by cc48510]
18 USC 44 Sec. 922
§ 922(a)(7)
§ 922(a)(8)
§ 922(b)(5)


(a) It shall be unlawful -


    (7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, except that this paragraph shall not apply to -


      (A) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof;

      (B) the manufacture of such ammunition for the purpose of exportation; and

      (C) any manufacture or importation for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary;


    (8) for any manufacturer or importer to sell or deliver armor piercing ammunition, except that this paragraph shall not apply to -


      (A) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof;

      (B) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the purpose of exportation;

      (C) the sale or delivery by a manufacturer or importer of such ammunition for the purposes of testing or experimenting authorized by the Secretary; and



(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver -


    (5) any firearm or armor-piercing ammunition to any person unless the licensee notes in his records, required to be kept pursuant to section 923 of this chapter, the name, age, and place of residence of such person if the person is an individual, or the identity and principal and local places of business of such person if the person is a corporation or other business entity.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 1:37:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 1:57:54 AM EDT by cc48510]
18 USC 44 Sec. 923
§ 923(e)
§ 923(k)


(e) The Secretary may, after notice and opportunity for hearing, revoke any license issued under this section if the holder of such license has willfully violated any provision of this chapter or any rule or regulation prescribed by the Secretary under this chapter or fails to have secure gun storage or safety devices available at any place in which firearms are sold under the license to persons who are not licensees (except that in any case in which a secure gun storage or safety device is temporarily unavailable because of theft, casualty loss, consumer sales, backorders from a manufacturer, or any other similar reason beyond the control of the licensee, the dealer shall not be considered to be in violation of the requirement to make available such a device). The Secretary may, after notice and opportunity for hearing, revoke the license of a dealer who willfully transfers armor piercing ammunition. The Secretary's action under this subsection may be reviewed only as provided in subsection (f) of this section.

(k) Licensed importers and licensed manufacturers shall mark all armor piercing projectiles and packages containing such projectiles for distribution in the manner prescribed by the Secretary by regulation. The Secretary shall furnish information to each dealer licensed under this chapter defining which projectiles are considered armor piercing ammunition as defined in section 921(a)(17)(B).
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 1:41:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 1:57:11 AM EDT by cc48510]
18 USC 44 Sec. 929
§ 929


(a)


    (1) Whoever, during and in relation to the commission of a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime which provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which he may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm and is in possession of armor piercing ammunition capable of being fired in that firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for the commission of such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime be sentenced to a term of imprisonment for not less than five years.

    (2) For purposes of this subsection, the term "drug trafficking crime" means any felony punishable under the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.), the Controlled Substances Import and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et seq.), or the Maritime Drug Law Enforcement Act (46 U.S.C. App. 1901 et seq.).


(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not suspend the sentence of any person convicted of a violation of this section, nor place the person on probation, nor shall the terms of imprisonment run concurrently with any other terms of imprisonment, including that imposed for the crime in which the armor piercing ammunition was used or possessed. No person sentenced under this section shall be eligible for parole during the term of imprisonment imposed herein.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 6:41:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 5:25:18 PM EDT by RS39]
I was given some chinese copper wash when I bought my first AK. About 10% of the 30 did not fire. May be bad storage, but I would not pay extra for it.
Most commie steel core, in any caliber, is very low grade steel and not a heck harder than lead in terms of penetration. An exception is the Hungarian 7.62x54r that has a rep for putting holes in range gongs, and going thru 1" trees at 100 yds :)
Edit- Ooops, 1' trees, not 1" trees. Feel like Spinal Tap with the Stonehenge set..
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 11:10:11 AM EDT
RS39, The Hungarian 7.62 X 39 has a small steel "pin" in the core. I have had to watch what I shoot of at because of over penetration.
I have not seen any for sale in a while though.

It was great shooting ammo. I kept a seeled case in storage "just in case"

BTW, I will get back to your e-mail tonight. We have been practicing hard for the public D-Day battle on Lake Erie for this comming weekend. Tons of practice for a battle we are pre-destined to loose.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 11:39:13 AM EDT
BATF warned every mfg. of AR's at the dallas SHOT show in 1994 that steel core was being imported via an exception since no handguns exsisted for the round. Olympic was the only one who violated the agreement and shipped them in interstate commerce, causing the ban of steel core ammo. The USDA Forest Service was pushing the ban previuosly as it had been linked to starting many fires in forest shooting areas. Olympic was the named manufacturer in BATF'setter banning the ammo.
....and I would never do business with them or their parts again as a result. The russian ammo now is just as cheap and cleaner than the Norinco. As previously pointed out, these idiot legislators dont realize cops body armour is designed only to stop common handgun bullets...any rifle caliber will go thru them.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 11:59:36 AM EDT
So does this mean that the 4,000+ rounds of 30-06 Black tip LC 53 that I have at home (for my garand) is worth more than I paid for it?? Shit, I bought it from Cheaper than Dirt years ago for just about nothing. The shit will go thru both doors on a Chevy pick up and keep going...but that doesn't mean much...most 30-06 rounds will do that.
Wish I had some junk RR track to try it on..or an engine block! (watch out for the splatter!)
Seriously, can selling this stuff get me in trouble? ie -**ARMOR Defeating rifle rounds for sale! $50 per 100 rounds!** ?
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 12:08:20 PM EDT
Slacker, if you paid next to nothing for it, it has gone up in value as there is little of it around any more. I think most people bought it inbulk and put it way "in case they needed it".
You are not sitting on a gold mine, but it has increased in value somewhat.

BTW, I used to shoot the chinese ammo in question through RR track sections. It would leave what looked like a .22 cartridge about two inches behind the track. Range- about 75 meters .30-06 should go right through it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 3:37:14 PM EDT
There are 2 types of steel cored ammo. the ATF exempted from the AP Ammo. Rules. THose are SS109 and some kind of 30.06 Stuff. If your stuff is the 30.06, value will depend on availability...as it is probably still legal to manufacture/import...
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:28:48 PM EDT
.30-06 is legal, the supply has mostly dried up though. I recently picked up some on 03 clips in bandoliers.

You can order the bullets in bulk from Widners for a song as well and reload them yourself.
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