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Posted: 2/26/2006 1:13:08 PM EDT
I have (another) polish UF kit and the pin is stuck.

It had soaked for 3 days in penetrating oil prior to my attempts at removal.

Using my vise and 12 ton press only made the pin chuckle.

I figured i'd bite the bullet and drill it out. I tried 2 different sized brand new Cobalt bits. I got down maybe 1/8 of an inch then the bit stopped cutting and just screaches as it spins. yes, i'm using cutting oil.

Bottom line is, the polish must use Tungsten Carbide for their barrel pins.

Any ideas on how to get it out?

Thanks
Caspian
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:21:07 PM EDT
i've got the same problem with a romy kit. i don't have a shop press but i have access to one and i will try that next. i've been working on the pin for a few days now. the 3lb sledge didn't even budge it. next i put the trunion in a vise and used a short punch pushing on the pin between the jaws. i cranked it as hard as i could and then grabbed a cheater bar. cranked some more until the screw for the vise jaw bent. the pin didn't move. how much pressure does it take to break a vise jaw?

i thought about drilling it but i don't wanna have to buy a new pin and wait. besides, i don't think my drill would handle it.

i swear, this thing was forged by the gods.


good luck. i'm glad too see i'm not the only one with this problem.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:41:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 1:44:02 PM EDT by FREEFALLE7]
Did you use a setup like below?(Romy AK used as example)

I use a HF 12 ton press and a 1/4 tork socket to press the pins out.

I did a Polish AK for a friend of mine and it was a hard press/PITA, the main thing is to support the rear sight otherwise it will turn and bend the sight.

FREE



Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 1:45:51 PM EDT by motorcityman]
Slow your drill speeds and use lots of cutting oil and use a drill press, drill it with a 1/8 drill bit, they are a pain and do eat up bits. I usually have to freshin up the bits a couple times with the drill doctor. What kind of penetrating oil are you using? Only use kroil and soak it for a week, soak it to where gravity will pull the oil down into the barrel pin hole, all it takes is one good smack dead on blow and it will move. I use a four pound hammer, vise grips to hold a punch, a trusty friend to hold the vise grips and all my might to smack that fucker. Another trick i use is, with the barrel pin soaked in kroil for a week, right before i start pounding, i take a propane torch and put heat on the oposite side of the trunnion with a small puddle of kroil on the other, what will happen is the heat will draw the oil down around the pin which will aid in removal. Drilling is a last resort, they do come out it just takes patience. If its messing with you walk away, have a smoke then come back to it later, that usually works for me.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:44:59 PM EDT
Try giving the press a good whack with a hammer after you have cranked down on the pin with the press. I've done this a bunch of times on stubborn Romy barrel pins in a 5" vise and they always seem to start moving once I apply a good whack.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:15:58 PM EDT
If its messing with you walk away, have a smoke then come back to it later, that usually works for me.

What? I have to start smoking? If you ever owned a VW and the "idiot's guide" book on how to work on it then you know he reccomends a beer break. Since I have very few tools I use the "one pin/rivet a day-then chill-then wait until tomorrow" method until I gain more experience. The point is to enjoy the journey if at all possible. But seriously, I had the same problem and bent the vise handle using the short pin and vise method.

My plan for the same problem is to soak it as some of you more experienced folks say and use an air hammer I just bought as I read several people suggest.

How about the U- rivet method (I think that's the name)? This way you "just" drill out those 4 rivets and hammer in the rivet-looking replacements. It seems worth doing for such a stubborn problem.

But first I have to learn how to parkerize, replace a gas piston and finish my first build without ruining anything on it.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:18:06 PM EDT
Ugh I couldn't see drilling one of those out. I got 2 pins out in a 10 min time period using a method similar to Free's. I support the barrel, trunnion and sight/gas block with pieces of steal so that the whole assembly is completely flat and use a very short (maybe 1/4 - 1/3 inch), cut down, bolt for pressing. Anything longer will bend and fly across the room. Also not keeping it completely flat will make stuff fly across the room.

Before I learned my trail and error, the freezer/PB trick worked for me removing my second pin. On my second pin, It looks like they tach welded and slam the pin in when they assembled it
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:25:45 PM EDT
You're talking about the drive screws, Personally i dont trust them, they might look authentic but i prefer a rivet. Rivets have been used for over a 100 years in firearm assembly and will continue to be used for a long time to come, theres a reason there! You dont have to start smoking but i prefer a smoke over a beer to calm my nerves, I've built many VW based motors over the years, I used to race sandrails and built several stroker motors, but they were cake walk. I used to be a heavy service technician and would tear apart 12, 16, 18 speed transmissions and completely rebuild them which were nerve racking like no other, back then i supplimented the nicotine to THC to calm my nerves, lol.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:28:03 PM EDT
Air hammer. You could even grind a tool with a tit on it to fit the hole you started. Make it skinny(a little smaller than the barrel pin) so you can keep going and drive it out once you get it started.
It cannot resist the repeated blows.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:30:40 PM EDT
Generally, it takes me longer to set up than the actual removal.

For some reason this is being particularly bad.

Freefall, that's the set up i use on the press. Except i used ground down phillip head bits. the thorz idea is a nice one. It gives you a nice wide area so it'll be easier ti line up. I have a cut down socket supporting the other side.

I've also tried the 5" ( i think mine is actaully 6") vise. This too has worked on other pins. Not this one.

I'll try the Kroil for a week. I have nothing but time.

However, i did start drilling so the pin is ruined. FWIS, i did use a 1/8 bit, but it just chirped and squeeled. I'll check my speen, but i'm going pretty slow.

Thanks
Caspian
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 2:35:42 PM EDT
Get a cheap air hammer (about $10). If that doesn't work, get some solid carbide bits to drill the pin. Drill real slow with lots of oil.

SRM
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:29:08 PM EDT
Wow,
I have always been able to get the pin out with my method.

Drilling the pin out sounds like it would be a PITA. I would try the press again, get to the point where the press is screaming and hit it with a big hammer.

If that doesnt work, damn..... try the drill.

Good luck
FREE


Originally Posted By Caspian45:
Generally, it takes me longer to set up than the actual removal.

For some reason this is being particularly bad.

Freefall, that's the set up i use on the press. Except i used ground down phillip head bits. the thorz idea is a nice one. It gives you a nice wide area so it'll be easier ti line up. I have a cut down socket supporting the other side.

I've also tried the 5" ( i think mine is actaully 6") vise. This too has worked on other pins. Not this one.

I'll try the Kroil for a week. I have nothing but time.

However, i did start drilling so the pin is ruined. FWIS, i did use a 1/8 bit, but it just chirped and squeeled. I'll check my speen, but i'm going pretty slow.

Thanks
Caspian

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:22:51 PM EDT
My polish underfolder wouldn't budge so I threw it in the freezer for about a half hour, took it out and just used a 3lb sledge. I'm never trying with out that method again, damn thing just popped out with out a problem.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:29:47 PM EDT
I feel your pain. I had one of those. After spending more money in broken tools and more importantly time than I could have purchased a nice milled AK I just cut my losses and cut the trunnion off. Then bought a barrel ($59) and started over. God I wish I would have done that a long time ago!



Trust me man, cut your losses. It will end up costing you more money and more importantly shorten your life by days because of the frustration and stress.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:32:08 PM EDT
I went through the same nightmare with my first kit. Ruined the trunnion and barrel by using hammer, air chisel, then drill.) I bought a 20 ton press and used Free's and Caspians methods. First attempt and I was done in a matter of minutes with a smooth removal.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:23:37 PM EDT
I forgot to tell you to freeze it overnight.

I guess the cold lets the metal contract just enough to let the pentrating oil in.

FREE
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:53:03 AM EDT
Does it matter which way you press the pin out. So far Ive done both ways and havn't noticed a difference. some sites say left other say right
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:27:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
I forgot to tell you to freeze it overnight.

I guess the cold lets the metal contract just enough to let the pentrating oil in.

FREE



Listen to Free, hard to believe but sticking it in the freezer helps.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:59:58 AM EDT
What kind of pin removal method did you use...What kind of Tool....
Are you using an AK-Builder pin remover???Or something homemade???
Nothing but praise for akbuilder...I have an AK-Builder pin Barrel/pin remover and have yet to encounter a pin that will not go while using a 12 HF press....Just ask the guys who attended Kyle's"WillysWagon"ak build party in Colorado where this jig was used on everybodies kit....
Here are some of the results...

www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=20&t=223142&page=3

Heres Curtis's jig....
www.ak-builder.com/ak/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=10
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:28:58 AM EDT
you cut the trunnion off? thats the most imortant part!! ROTFL .. you must not wanna start building if your going to ruin a good trunnion and throw away the barrel.. barrel ban mean anything to you?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:18:33 PM EDT
Why waste a perfectly good barrel and trunion???

Couldnt you find a local machine shop willing to press it out for free for you? I know allot of machine shops have presses much larger than 12 ton.

Or, the freezing it idea is a good one.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:28:02 PM EDT
Damn


FREE



Originally Posted By millsusaf:
I feel your pain. I had one of those. After spending more money in broken tools and more importantly time than I could have purchased a nice milled AK I just cut my losses and cut the trunnion off. Then bought a barrel ($59) and started over. God I wish I would have done that a long time ago!

www.hunt101.com/img/370224.JPG

Trust me man, cut your losses. It will end up costing you more money and more importantly shorten your life by days because of the frustration and stress.

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:29:11 PM EDT
millsusaf,

why on earth would you do that? I don't get it at all. Worse case scenario is you just drill out the barrel pin.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 2:25:29 PM EDT
Could you not just end up doing a build with screws? I know a lot of folks dont like that for the look, but I have a Romy barrel pin I can't get to move and I think I am just going to try and do a screw build with it.

I pulled out the calipers and one side of my pin is larger than the other. Luckily I started on the correct side. Maybe I will give the freezer a try.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:15:29 PM EDT
The joy of building AK's. Not quit the same as building an AR. When frustration sets in best to walk away. Ive broken my share of tools/parts because "Ill give it one more try." Tonight I was trying to press off a gasblock and that son of a bitch would not budge. Ive disassembled dozens of kits and never had a gasblock give me such fits. The more I pressed the more I dented my aluminum press kit. I just chucked the whole barrel assembly in the freezer and will give it a go tomorrow. Broken tools, parts, and self inflicted injuries are all part of the building process. Enjoy.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 6:21:34 PM EDT
AIR HAMMER!!
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