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Posted: 2/24/2006 6:44:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 5:16:25 AM EDT by richardh247]
I had it built, and I have to tell you that everyone that has shot it so far is extremely impressed with the trigger job and the accuracy. She is a blast to shoot and, according to several people, "the most accurate AR I've ever shot."

Unfortunately, she loves to jam. And I mean loves to jam. What happens is that she picks up the round but it doesn't throat (FTF). It almost seems like the round is going in at the wrong angle. I have tried 5 different mags, all with the same results. So, here's what I've tried so far:

Soft point ammo. FTF every third round, every mag. Lead is dented and scraped from jamming in the chamber.

HP. Sketchy. Sometimes a mag goes through, sometimes it FTF's every fifth round, sometimes it does it once or twice a mag.

FMJ. Same as HP.

OK, either my weapon's maintenance sucks (not likely) or my rifle sucks. So, to weed out the possibilities from least to worst, I did the following:

No maintenance sans a few shots of clp. No change.

Full disassembly, cleaned the ever loving shit out of it, oil only. No change,

Oil all the operating parts, but Mil-Tec grease the slide rails and bolt to bolt carrier mating surface. Some improvement - shot 3 mags FTF free, then FTF's again just like before. Encouraged, I began greasing the rails everytime I cleaned her. Nope... Doing the same thing, except now I can't get 3 full mags of any ammo with any mag combination without FTF's as described above.

BTW: I clean every rifle and pistol I own the exact same way as above, and they all run perfect. My SKS feeds ANY of the ammo in the 10-round mag.

Disassembled all mags and cleaned. No improvement. Tried a friend's mag that runs flawless in his. No improvement.

Sigh.

OK, so here is what I have noticed finger fucking her trying to find anything that might be a problem.

At times, I can pull the charging handle back and release slowly (no mag) and it will stop the bolt in the open position. Bang on the pistol grip, she'll slam shut. It doesn't do this all the time, just some times. I can make it do it depending on how slowly I release the charging handle, but using the exact same pressure and speed it does this sporadically. Des not ever do it if I pull the handle all the way back and release it.

So I inspected the trigger group, bolt and carrier, and chamber with a magnifying glass. No burrs or saddles or anything I could see that could possibly interfere with chambering and ejecting (she ejects fine, when she feeds).

No kinks in the operating rod spring.

Now, I talked with the guy who set me up with the guy that built her He said for me to clean the gas port. And I will, but I have two problems with this:

First, I haven't a clue how to. He said use a pipe cleaner, but to access the hole I'll need to punch out the pins to remove the gas block, which means I have to buy tools and hope I do it all right.

Second, he says he put 60 rounds through it flawlessly and gave me a test target. But since I have had it, this situation has been the same. I have never once in my entire life had a rifle that needed the gas port cleaned every 60 rounds. And if it does, I'll sell the thing.

So I am etremely hesitant to take all this apart to clean the port that, after 60 rounds, got clogged... That's not a working solution for me.

Now, my friend Robert bumpfired two mags out of it without a hitch. His analysis: You need to fire it faster, it isn't meant to be fired slow. I call bullshit on that statement. WTF good is a rifle I can't aim because all it's good for is bump firing, negating the accuracy and trigger job? My 14-year old loves it, but she can't bump it every time!

So, does anyone have ANY ideas? I can take any detailed pics you might want and post them here. Just make sure you tell me which parts you need to see in their various stages of disassembly.

Please guys, help me get my baby running like the brute she is purported to be.

BTW: It is a cheap receiver. Um, my one friend who builds them says he loves these receivers, but I mean it is stamped or milled - whatever is the cheaper of the two (I always get them confused).

Help me out you studs! Any suggestions at all are greatly appreciated!

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:08:11 AM EDT
I can't tell you what's wrong with it, but I can comment on these two items:


Originally Posted By richardh247:
At times, I can pull the charging handle back and release slowly (no mag) and it will stop the bolt in the open position. Bang on the pistol grip, she'll slam shut. It doesn't do this all the time, just some times. I can make it do it depending on how slowly I release the charging handle, but using the exact same pressure and speed it does this sporadically. Des not ever do it if I pull the handle all the way back and release it.



This is likely due to using a Tapco G2 trigger group. Both of my builds do the same thing. Basically the hammer is shaped such that it hangs up the bolt just a little. This is not the cause of your problems.



Now, my friend Robert bumpfired two mags out of it without a hitch. His analysis: You need to fire it faster, it isn't meant to be fired slow. I call bullshit on that statement. WTF good is a rifle I can't aim because all it's good for is bump firing, negating the accuracy and trigger job? My 14-year old loves it, but she can't bump it every time!



This just gets a . Of course you should be able to slow fire it.

My Romanian will jam on hollow points. The one time I paid attention, the hp tip actually caught on the chamber mouth and stuck there. It's never jammed on FMJ. If you could get some dummy rounds or be extremely careful with live rounds maybe you could slowly chamber a few and see what's hanging and where. It wasn't clear to me what your stoppage is. Are the rounds stopping part way into the chamber?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:27:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JimTh:
It wasn't clear to me what your stoppage is. Are the rounds stopping part way into the chamber?



Thanks for the constructive comments! At least I know the trigger group is good, so I can move on from there.

What seems to be happening is that the point of the bullet is going in at too much of an angle. The chamber is not ramped, it is just flat like this: | instead of this /. When the soft points failed to feed, each of them looked like a scrunched up piece of carpet. Let me try and explain that better.

You know how you can take a piece of carpet and, as you push it from one edge, it bundles up until you can't push anymore? It looks like a bunch of waves, kind of like my daughter's scrunchie she uses for her hair.

Any way, the lead of the bullet has a gouge from hitting the top of the chamber. I "pushes" the lead back. So, when you examine a soft point that failed to feed, you see a "scrape" starting about 1/8 of an inch from the tip. Then, that scrape continues down about half way, where it ends with a lip of the lead pushed backwards - looks like a snowplow blade where it stops.

But I cannot distinguish any marks on jacketed rounds that failed to feed.

So, what this tells ME (YMMV) is that the mags are fine as the bolt is definately picking up the round. But the round hits the top of the chamber throat, where it eventually stops.

In every one of the FTF's, the bolt stopped before the round was throated all the way. It's never closed and then *click* because it didn't pick up a round. It just won't close because the round is at like a 45 degree angle, which stops the bolt from its forward momentum.

Does that explain it a little better? If need be, I can run a mag of SP's and FMJ's and HP through it and take pictures so you can compare them. Would that help, to see the actually marks on the bullets? There are no marks on the cases, BTW, just the bullets themselves.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:25:52 AM EDT
Take dial calipers and measure the distance betweent the rails inside of the receiver. You'll find you have a bottleneck slowing the bolt carrier down and/or jamming it up. You need slap between the rails with the bolt carrier to make it work properly. A file will fix it if applied judiciously in the proper spots - where the receiver narrows jamming up the bolt carrier.
Another possibllity - the feed ramp is pressed riveted onto the front trunion. Sometimes they get bent up when guys press the barrels into the front trunnion causing feed problems like you describe. But that is not very likely.
As far as cleaning your gas port, pour some CLP on it, let it sit, then shoot the gun. It'll clear it out.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:31:11 AM EDT
This is really hard to do...troubleshoot from afar.

1.) To clean the gas port just remove the carrier and piston assembly, remove the gas piston tube. You can clean the gas hole through the gas block, if you look inside where the piston end goes you will see the gas hole.

2.) As far as the FTF it could be that the magazine isn't fitted correctly, meaning that it might be sitting to low in relationship to the bolt. If the magazine sits to low then as the bolt slides forward to push the round into the chamber the angle could cause the bullet to jam on the face of the chamber.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:44:57 AM EDT
This makes me wonder, are you positive you are seating the magazines fully? There should be a definite snap when it seats. My Romy has a real stiff mag release that I have to fight sometimes. Not seating them fully might explain why it works for others but not you.


Originally Posted By Hammer in PA:
2.) As far as the FTF it could be that the magazine isn't fitted correctly, meaning that it might be sitting to low in relationship to the bolt. If the magazine sits to low then as the bolt slides forward to push the round into the chamber the angle could cause the bullet to jam on the face of the chamber.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:19:18 AM EDT
I am positive the mags are seating fully.

Here are some pics. Sorry about the quality, but my camera doesn't do well up close.

In between the barrel chamber opening and the receiver there is a pice of steel. Between that piece and the receiver is where the front of the mag goes. But it seems canted to the left. The chamber itself is bright silver where the rounds have been hitting the face, rather than sliding in like they are on a ramp and going smoothly. On that piece I am talking about, the right edge is also scraped of all the blueing. Looking at it, it seems that the left side of the mag would chamber fine, but the right side is being forced into the chamber. The left side hasn't a wear mark.

So I opened it up and took some pics. See all the red around the chamber face? That is FMJ shavings and primer sealent. The FMJ shavings are telling me the rounds are not feeding right somehow.

This it the rifle from the top, completely empty. You can see the gap between the piece and the right side of the frame.







And here it is from a rear angle







When I seat a loaded mag, this is the view







And when the round moves forward, it hits the chamber face, rather than the nose going inside the barrel





Again, the tip of the round seems to be hitting the bottom of the chamber.







Any of this help?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:34:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 1:35:33 PM EDT by offroader333]
it looks to me like the feedramp is the problem, has the top edge that faces the mag. been filed on or damaged? i think it needs to be a ''little'' closer to the mag with a rounded 90 degree top edge. you'll probally have to send it back or maybe ad some material there with mig welder and reshape it, or just replace it.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:20:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By offroader333:
it looks to me like the feedramp is the problem, has the top edge that faces the mag. been filed on or damaged? i think it needs to be a ''little'' closer to the mag with a rounded 90 degree top edge. you'll probally have to send it back or maybe ad some material there with mig welder and reshape it, or just replace it.



What he said.

David
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:54:30 PM EDT
Definitely take another look at the hammer-I bet the hammer is scraping bigtime on the underside of the bolt carrier. This was the problem with my romy build and grinding the "corner" of the hammer cleared it up...no more hangups on slow handcycling.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:04:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 5:51:21 PM EDT by 2FALable]
That built on a Ewbanks receiver?

When you have your FTF's is it always ONLY a failure to chamber a new round or do you have ejection problems at the same time or some of the time?

Also - Lock the hammer into the cocked position.. With no bolt and no spring install the bolt carrier.

Does the carrier ride front to back nice and smooth on the rails? or rather does it get tight and want to bind? If it binds does it do so toward the middle of the receiver or more toward the forward locked position?

If you look at where the lower rail transitions onto the trunion rail, is it a flat transition? In other words is the rail level with the height of the rail milled into the trunion?


Last but not least remember to hang in there... It's the hard times that make the family photos more special.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:31:05 PM EDT
Two things I'm noticing right away, top left rail of receiver just before trunion is either bent out or, part of the rail is missing. Thats the way it looks in the first pic. second the feed ramp looks to be to far forward. Back portion of the ramp should be even with the front of the 2 bullet guides on back of the trunion.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:19:05 PM EDT
Recently completed my first build in three years. Had the same problem. During the demilling process I ground on the bottom of the safety stop plate to remove the rivets. This resulted in two of three of my mags to sit perfectly perpendicular to the rail. As the bolt came forward it hit lower on the bullet almost picking it up, but not allowing the bullet guide to function by angeling the bullet upwards towards the bore.

The third mag that gave me no problem, sat a little lower on the backside maybe 1/32" lower. The bolt wasn't hitting as much of the bullet so that as it strip the bullet it would go against the guide and angle towards the bore.

Since it was a screw build I removed the trigger guard and added a shim and my problem was solved.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:35:10 AM EDT
Put a magazine in the rifle and take a closeup picture so we can see how far the mag goes into the rifle and the angle the magazine sits in relation to the receiver when its inserted.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:41:09 AM EDT
Wow, I knew I could count on you folks!

OK, let me see if I can answer a few of the questions that have been asked.

The feed ramp (that piece of metal I was talking about that sits in between the chamber and receiver, right?) is about 1/32" - 1/16" of an inch forward of the bullet guides. I tdoes not appear to have been filed on or damaged, just shiny from where the blueing has been worn off. It has a sloped end closest to the mag, and appears to be smooth.

In the cocked position, the hammer does have wear on the top face (looking down on it from the top of the rifle). It does not appear to be excessive to my untrained eye, but it does rub the bottom. Both the bolt and bolt carrier have quite a bit of surface area on the bottom where it is obviously riding the hammer. Again, though, I don't have the experience to know if it is excessive or not, but I did notice something queer:

on the bottom of the bolt itself, there are two distict wear lines. The one in the center is silver, such as occurs when there is a rub and the blueing rubs off. But on either side of that, right on the edges of the bottom of the bolt, about 1/8" in from each edge, the rub marks are copper or brass. Since I have been using Wolf ammo, this means that the bolt is scraping the bullets in the mag on its rearward travel in the cycling process. Is that normal?

2FALable

Yes, the receiver is a Ewbanks.

The FTF's are ALWAYS a failure to go into battery. The round ends up stuck at an angle, with the tip of the bullet hitting the top of the chamber and the rear or the case hitting the bottom of the bolt. It has never failed to eject, and the FTF happens exactly this way each and every time. Here's what appears to be happening:

The bolt picks up the round and tries to go into battery. But the bottom of the bullet hits the bottom lip of the chamber face, which makes the round try to go verticle. So instead of the round feeding like this -- it tries to feed like this /. Naturally, this jams the bolt's forward motion and locks up the action. It happens this way, exactly this way, every single time. When I look at it when it jams, it looks like this bolt>>>> |/| <<<<< chamber. The / in the middle is the round itself.

One note that may be important: it only does this in the operation stroke. IOW, I can chamber a round every time with zero problems if I am operating the charging handle myself; but I pull the handle all the way rear and then let go, so the operating spring is fully compressed to it's maximum when I allow the bolt to go forward into battery. The feed problems manifest only when actually shooting.

Please read this part carefully, as I think you found the problem

With no bolt and no spring, and the hammer fully cocked, the bolt carrier CANNOT go forward unless I shove the shit out of it. I never noticed this before because I had never installed the carrier sans the bolt.

So I was like, WTF? I looked at it, and the front face of the carrier is stopped by the hammer - stopped dead. There is a full 1/4" to 5/16" of the hammer surface hitting the carrier front face. Again, it does NOT do this with the bolt installed, only when the bolt is not there to run interference for the carrier front face.

That can't be right, can it?

I mean, the rear of the hammer is rounded, so if I push HARD on the charging handle or rear of the carrier I can make it go past. Also, with the hammer locked in the cocked position, I can put my finger on the hammer and push it down another good 1/2". It is under spring tension so, naturally, ir returns to the locked position - but if I push it down the carrier slides smoothly all the way to battery position.

I have no idea what a trunion is. I told you, I am stupid on these things. This is my first AK, so the vernacular is foreign to me. Sorry. I really hate asking stupid questions when I'm too fucking stupid to even know what to call the parts my rifle is made out of, but that's why I'm here: to learn. So far, you guys have been awsome and I haven't got even one flame for using "thingy" and "whatchamacallit" and I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate that!

Major1

All my mags sit perfectly perpendicular to the rail. There is a 1/8" shim between the receiver and guard already, but mine is a rivet build. Is there any other way to cant the rear of the mag without drilling out all 4 rivets?

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:56:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By POLYTHENEPAM:
Put a magazine in the rifle and take a closeup picture so we can see how far the mag goes into the rifle and the angle the magazine sits in relation to the receiver when its inserted.



I was actually typing a reply when you posted bro.

Right below your post was the one I was working on, and I tried to do a better job of explaining it. Unfortunately, as you can see, my digital SUCKS at closeup pictures. I don't think I can do as you ask because it would be so blurry there'd be no detail. I'll try to explain it as best I can, and maybe today I can borrow a camera that can get a great close-up and then post pics.

The mag lips seat flush to the bottom of the bullet guides, and there is no side to side wiggle in the mag. Forward to rear wiggle is very limited, maybe 1/16" of an inch of travel. The mag release is angled towards the rear of the weapon (not verticle) when a mag is inserted.

There is no cant to the mag. That is, the mag lips sit perfectly level to the rails. There is no angle to the mag inserted into the receiver. There is already a 1/8 or maybe 3/16 inch shim between the receiver and trigger guard but, as I mentioned above, that is riveted, not screwed. Does that mean I'm the one that's screwed? LOL.

I will try my damnest to borrow a really good camera and snap some pictures later this afternoon.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:21:55 AM EDT
Can you confirm that the trigger group is a G2? What you're describing with the trigger is exactly what both of my AK's do with G2's(as far as hanging on the hammer goes, I don't have FTF's like that). My Romy is a little worse than my Tantal about it. If I pull the handle back and let it down slow, the hammer acts like a bolt hold open. If I smack it with my hand, it closes. If I pull it all the way back and let it slam home, it doesn't catch. If you want to fix this just so you know it's not the issue, then you can grind off the part of the hammer that's causing problems. Put the bolt in and let the hammer down on it, look where it contacts the firing pin and DON'T grind that. But grinding the hump off the hammer a little should be ok. When I first posted about this problem, someone compared the hammer to a whale's head, grind his forehead off.
Disclaimer: I havent' done this, I'm just repeating what I was told. I'm ok with it the way it is.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:39:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JimTh:
Can you confirm that the trigger group is a G2? What you're describing with the trigger is exactly what both of my AK's do with G2's(as far as hanging on the hammer goes, I don't have FTF's like that). My Romy is a little worse than my Tantal about it. If I pull the handle back and let it down slow, the hammer acts like a bolt hold open. If I smack it with my hand, it closes. If I pull it all the way back and let it slam home, it doesn't catch. If you want to fix this just so you know it's not the issue, then you can grind off the part of the hammer that's causing problems. Put the bolt in and let the hammer down on it, look where it contacts the firing pin and DON'T grind that. But grinding the hump off the hammer a little should be ok. When I first posted about this problem, someone compared the hammer to a whale's head, grind his forehead off.
Disclaimer: I havent' done this, I'm just repeating what I was told. I'm ok with it the way it is.



I don't know how to confirm it is a G2. If I disassemble the trigger group, are there any markings I could find identifying it?

All I know about it is that everyone who has shot it swears it's the sweetest trigger ever on an AK. They say it is a match trigger, or is a darn good one with a trigger job.

But I'd have to grind off literally half the thickness if the hammer to keep the carrier from stopping on it. There's a good 3/16 or 1/4 of an inch of hammer above the bottom of the carrier. I suppose I could angle it a little, but I really hate to mess with it because everyone tells me it is such a great job.

Never having any experience with AK's before this one, I am learning a LOT trying to fix this damn problem and I had no idea about the trigger slop on most AKs. I don't mind learning to work on mine, I just don't want to mess up the only AK I have. It is my second favorite rifle, but I shoot her as much as I shoot my baby, my Garand. And I can't afford another one for some time.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 6:14:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 6:33:35 AM EDT by beemerman]
If its a G2 trigger it may have Tapco USA on it. If it is a G2 it should have a sleeve that fits over the assembly pin, and though the trigger . If this is missing the trigger group will have excessive play.The hammer may not lock back each time, and both hammer and trigger hook or hooks may be riding the bolt as it goes forward. The (front) trunion is the peice that the barrel is pressed into and receiver is riveted to. I still think you may have a feed ramp problem though. I checked all of my AKs and none of them have a gap between the ramp and bullet guides. This can change the angle of the round as it feeds. In terms of what you discribed about the bolt carrier hitting the trigger this would be normal with out the bolt in place. If you install the bolt and carrier into the back of the receiver the bolt would be on top of the hammer,and you push down slightly to run it into the receiver.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 6:34:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beemerman:
If its a G2 trigger it may have Tapco USA on it. If it is a G2 it should have a sleeve that fits over the assembly pin, and though the trigger . If this is missing the trigger group will have excessive play.The hammer may not lock back each time, and both hammer and trigger hook or hooks may be riding the bolt as it goes forward. The (front) trunion is the peice that the barrel is pressed into and receiver is riveted to. I still think you may have a feed ramp problem though. I checked all of my AKs and none of them have a gap between the ramp and bullet guides. This can change the angle of the round as it feeds.



No markings of any kind, but it does have a sleeve on the pin. The hammer locks back every time no problem. The hammer hook has no wear on it at all, like shiny spots that occur from a rub. The hammer does. There is only one hook.

The trunion rail to receiver rail seems flat, very little gap and they are not offset.

You're the fourth of fifth person to mention the feed ramp. So, that sounds like where I need to begin if the hammer blocking the carrier assembly minus the bolt doesn't strike any chords of concern.

Is moving that something I can do myself? I read all the tacked threads, and there is no mention of troubleshooting or adjusting the feed ramp. How intensive is it, and what kind of specialty tools are needed?

Can anyone point me to some pictures that identify the correct procedure and position the ramp should be in?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 6:42:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 6:53:44 AM EDT by JimTh]
Here's a pic of my chamber area. Maybe you can compare and see a difference?
Edit: Dangit! Fuzzy!
Edit again: There we go!
Edit thrice: From looking at the trunnion when mine were apart, it looked like the ramp was on a post which is driven into the trunnion. I don't know how you could ever adjust it.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:07:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JimTh:
Here's a pic of my chamber area. Maybe you can compare and see a difference?
Edit: Dangit! Fuzzy!
Edit again: There we go!
Edit thrice: From looking at the trunnion when mine were apart, it looked like the ramp was on a post which is driven into the trunnion. I don't know how you could ever adjust it.

home.insightbb.com/~jim-vicky/chamberak.jpg



Oh HELL no! Mine is not even CLOSE to where your's is. Damnit all to hell and back!

On the right side of the trunion, see that half circle hole that your ramp completely covers? Mine only covers about 2/3 of that hole, which translates to mine being a full 1/8" of an inch forward of where yours is.

And there is no way to adjust that little bugger? That means my rifle is junk. I can't even sell it, as I wouldn't stick someone else with my problem. Well shit in a handbasket and call me Mary. I paid $100 to have this built, minus the parts, receiver, and compliance parts. Just... balls!

I need a drink. I dont't think the builder realized this, so I highly doubt they ripped me off. But now what the hell do I do?

[Aliens]

What are we gonna do now man, what are we gonna DO NOW? This is some pretty shit now, man!


[/Aliens]
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:10:41 AM EDT
Looking again at the pic that is straight down, it looks like the ramp has been altered. Does it have a slight angle to it? Left to right ? It should. Is it loose? The ramp is riveted to the front trunion. To remove it you would have to remove the receiver from the trunion ,and press out the barrel. The rivet for the ramp is between the receiver and bottom of the trunion. You would then grind off the rivet head and remove the old ramp and just install a new one. Unless you have the tools to remove rivets, press the barrel in and out, and rerivet etc. Didn't you say someone else built it for you ? Can't they help you do that if they have the tools?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:25:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 7:32:55 AM EDT by beemerman]
Seems to me the person that did the build for you should have noticed this about the feedramp. If they were familiar with AKs. Was the rifle a parts kit? If so they should have inspected all of the parts prior to building it. Try your Home town forum . Maybe someone local can help. Dont just give up. It is a simple fix. Just find someone with tools. Check the build it yourself forum . You can get lots of help there to do it yourself. Once you get it fixed you will be as happy as a man in clam.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:34:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beemerman:
Looking again at the pic that is straight down, it looks like the ramp has been altered. Does it have a slight angle to it? Left to right ? It should. Is it loose? The ramp is riveted to the front trunion. To remove it you would have to remove the receiver from the trunion ,and press out the barrel. The rivet for the ramp is between the receiver and bottom of the trunion. You would then grind off the rivet head and remove the old ramp and just install a new one. Unless you have the tools to remove rivets, press the barrel in and out, and rerivet etc. Didn't you say someone else built it for you ? Can't they help you do that if they have the tools?



Yes, it does slant right to left just a bit (looks just like Jim's, but the edge is closer to the breech). If it has been altered, I cannot tell and I most certaintly did NOT do anything to it. The flash from my camera makes the ramp look filed, but it is not filed or anything like that.

And no, I haven't the tools OR knowledge to do all that. The builder is probably not going to honor my request as I've had this for a year. I just rarely get a chance to go shooting because I have one working leg, but lately I have been getting out more.

When this first became apparent (when I first shot her), people told me either bad mags or it needed breaking in. It was 6 months later I was next able to shoot her, and then another 3 months. Only in the last 3 months have I had the opportunity or money to try different ammo and mags.

You have to understand, my leg means I can barely walk or work, so I have ZERO money for ammo and mags and such most of the time. It also means I can't take things out and test fire them to find problems in the first month or so.

I would not expect the builder to correct a problem I have just identified one full year and several thousand rounds later. It wouldn't be fair to the builder, ya know? But that presents a serious problem, because I can't afford the new ramp, much less the labor involved to install it.

I'll see if any of the local guys can maybe show me how to do it or a case of beer or something. I'm sure someone here has the tools and such, and it sounds like only a few hours' work.

Gentlemen (and ladies, if applicable), I want to again extend my most sincere appreciation for your wisdom and willingness to walk me through this. You are an amazing bunch of people, and if I can ever do ANYTHING for ANY of you, you only need to ask me. And I mean that in all sincerity.

I'll keep y'all updated if I can get the problem solved. Any other ideas, speculations, or examples, please do continue to post them!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:40:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 7:41:07 AM EDT by terma-nator]

Originally Posted By richardh247:
Oh HELL no! Mine is not even CLOSE to where your's is. Damnit all to hell and back!

On the right side of the trunion, see that half circle hole that your ramp completely covers? Mine only covers about 2/3 of that hole, which translates to mine being a full 1/8" of an inch forward of where yours is.

And there is no way to adjust that little bugger? That means my rifle is junk. I can't even sell it, as I wouldn't stick someone else with my problem. Well shit in a handbasket and call me Mary. I paid $100 to have this built, minus the parts, receiver, and compliance parts. Just... balls!

I need a drink. I dont't think the builder realized this, so I highly doubt they ripped me off. But now what the hell do I do?

What are we gonna do now man, what are we gonna DO NOW? This is some pretty shit now, man!


Just so you know, the builder of the AK just uses the parts that you supplied. The trunnion could be different then some other guy's trunnion. It should work fine if it came from the same gun as the other parts.

If your builder didn't sufficiently test fire the gun, he might not have caught the problem.

I just finished an AK74 with a similar problem as yours. I haven't test fired it yet, but the bolt problem is exactly the same as yours. I will have to go and grind and reshape mine till the action is smooth.

Sometimes that's needed on an ak build. Usually you can slap one together and it works perfectly without any extra attention. Then there's these times when it needs to be "tweaked"!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:44:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beemerman:
Seems to me the person that did the build for you should have noticed this about the feedramp. If they were familiar with AKs. Was the rifle a parts kit? If so they should have inspected all of the parts prior to building it. Try your Home town forum . Maybe someone local can help. Dont just give up. It is a simple fix. Just find someone with tools. Check the build it yourself forum . You can get lots of help there to do it yourself. Once you get it fixed you will be as happy as a man in clam.



Yes, it was a parts kit. But like I mentioned above, I can't hold the builder responsible for a problem I am just now identifying a full year later - that wouldn't be fair to the builder.

But yes, I will check the local forum to find someone with tools that can walk me through this. It will be a GREAT learning experience, and then I'll be ready to build my own next time! Gotta keep a positive attitude, ya know?

Until then, I'll just play with my other toys and train. My friend Kevin has been working me through failure drills, so that will keep me busy. The deal with my AK sucks, but stuff happens and I'm not going to blame anyone or hold them responsible. it's a cheap kit, and one gets what they pay for. I am disappointed, yes, but not upset.

Where the hell do I buy a new feed ramp?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:52:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 8:01:45 AM EDT by JimTh]
Global Trades/Armory USA sells lots of spare parts. Don't know if they have a feed ramp or not. You may have to buy a trunnion to get it, but I dunno. KVAR is another possible source.
If you can find some locals with AK's, compare yours and theirs side by side. Maybe some amount of variance is normal?

After thinking a bit, it does make sense that having the ramp too far forward would cause this problem. The round doesn't start to rise until it's too far forward, then it hits the chamber mouth.

Well, if you do get it fixed, take pics so you can show everyone how it's done!

I'll be damned, here ya go!
Linky!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 8:43:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 8:47:24 AM EDT by beemerman]
I have thought of a way to replace the ramp with just a drill, hammer and a few peices of steal rod. First you would drill a hole in the bottom of the receiver right were the rivet is sticking out of the bottom of the trunion. Then drill out the rivet using a small drill bit to start ,then stepping up in size. drive out the old rivet. Remove the old ramp. Install new ramp and rivet . You will need to make a backing block for the rivet on the ramp side. Then take a peice of steel rod and hammer to crush the rivet through the hole drilled on the bottom of the receiver you made to drill out the rivet. This is the only thing that I can suggest so you would not have to disassemble the rifle to replace the ramp. Of course you will have an extra hole in the receiver. But your rifle will be working . As posted before K-var has the ramp and rivet for 12.95 I think it said. Only a suggestion. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 8:55:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beemerman:
I have thought of a way to replace the ramp with just a drill, hammer and a few peices of steal rod. First you would drill a hole in the bottom of the receiver right were the rivet is sticking out of the bottom of the trunion. Then drill out the rivet using a small drill bit to start ,then stepping up in size. drive out the old rivet. Remove the old ramp. Install new ramp and rivet . You will need to make a backing block for the rivet on the ramp side. Then take a peice of steel rod and hammer to crush the rivet through the hole drilled on the bottom of the receiver you made to drill out the rivet. This is the only thing that I can suggest so you would not have to disassemble the rifle to replace the ramp. Of course you will have an extra hole in the receiver. But your rifle will be working . As posted before K-var has the ramp and rivet for 12.95 I think it said. Only a suggestion. Hope this helps.



That is actually a damn good idea! Unfortunately, it would mean drilling right through the serial number I don't think the alphabet boys would appreciate me drilling out the SN.

Damn, that was a GREAT idea though!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:08:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 9:13:16 AM EDT by beemerman]
If I'm not mistaken it should be just about were the indent for the mag lip is on the receiver. You should measure it. they didn't put the #s on there did they? Just measured a Romy trunnion I have , and yes it is just under the indent on the receiver . you should be OK.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:14:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beemerman:
If I'm not mistaken it should be just about were the indent for the mag lip is on the receiver. You should measure it. they didn't put the #s on there did they? Just measured a Romy trunnion I have , and yes it is just under the indent on the receiver . you should be OK.



I just measured it. The SN is 3/16" to the bottom of the numbers from the edge of the lip.

How big is the rivit?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:23:47 AM EDT
Can you post a pic? block out the # of course. I need to see it to tell. Go to K-var link that was posted it will take you directly to a pic of the ramp and rivet to give you an idea , but i think it is like an 1/8 to 3/16 " .
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:48:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 9:50:13 AM EDT by richardh247]
Because my camera sucks at closeups, I whited the SN. No need to block it out IMO.



Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:42:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 10:44:25 AM EDT by beemerman]
Well from the front of the receiver ,the rivet is about an 1 5/8" which would put you in about the center of the ramp. you would not drill in the area of the #. There is another problem though. The feed ramp is under the barrel about an 1/8" or better. I think this may be a problem when removing the old ramp. Since there is no pulling it out because the bullet guides are in the way. You may be able to twist/ spin it out left to right. I don't know. But you said it was short by an 1/8" maybe thats enough play. When installing the new one reducing the lip that go's under the barrel may help get it in. Once you get the old one out,compare it to the new ramp for any differances. Rivet hole, size etc. The part listed at K-var is Bulgarian. You might call them first to confirm that they are the same. Maybe this is not the way to go, and may or may not work,but the only other way is to press the barrel. It's up to you if you want to try it. Just trying to help.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:48:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By beemerman:
Well from the front of the receiver ,the revit is about an 1 5/8" which would put you in about the center of the ramp. you would not drill in the area of the #. There is another problem though. The feed ramp is under the barrel about an 1/8" or better. I think this may be a problem when removing the old ramp. Since there is no pulling it out because the bullet guides are in the way. You may be able to twist/ spin it out left to right. I don't know. But you said it was short by an 1/8" maybe thats enough play. When installing the new one reducing the lip that go's under the barrel may help get it in. Once you get the old one out,compare it to the new ramp for any differances. Rivet hole, size etc. The part listed at K-var is Bulgarian. You might call them first to confirm that they are the same. Maybe this is not the way to go, and may or may not work,but the only other way is to press the barrel. It's up to you if you want to try it. Just trying to help.



I know you're trying to help, bro, and I honestly appreciate it more than you know!

My bud said he knows some guys here locally that will do the whole thing, so I'm going to wait and see if they come through before I go drilling my receiver. Still, y'all have been a GREAT bunch of help! I have learned a LOT, and together the problem was identified. If it costs me 12 bucks for the ramp and a case of beer to have it fixed without drilling the receiver, then I'll go with that.

If not, you'll be getting a PM to walk me through it step by step, LOL.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 1:06:32 PM EDT
dont go by jimths his is twisted and shouldnt be
as i said befor you need to file open the carrier slots
ill find a pic
i think that will fix all your probs

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 1:17:18 PM EDT
open all 3 sides of this slot with dremel or file
on both sides of the carrier

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 8:19:56 PM EDT
Why not just find a competent person that does tig welding and have him add to the front of the bullet guide, then clean it up with a dremmel. If a piece of pipe will work in a saiga conversion I don't see how this needs to be all that perfect.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:51:51 PM EDT
It's late and I'm loctiting two Romy G builds that I had taken to the range to test fire today and had no problems. Since I have 5 completed rifles with no problems and 1 kit still in its trunnion plus a 2002 sar 1 I looked at the feed ramps compared to JimTH pic. My two 86's look the same. My two 83's and two 81's are barely past the mid point of the gap. The sar one looks to be at the mid point like in your pic. An 86 is the one that has not been built.

Before I would go to the extreme of socanyman's solution I would look at other less costly causes. I still think it's a mag problem. Pull the firing pin then you can manually run the bolt with out the risk of a miss fire and watch how the round is strip from the mag and angel toward the bore.

If nobody comes up with a more sensible solution by tomorrow I'll break down my Romys and measure the distance from the bore to the end of the bullet ramp and also try to measure the distance from the bottom of the rail to the lip of the mag catch for you to compare.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 12:36:17 AM EDT
what i said is in no way drastic
and there is reasoning behind it
i dont really feel like explaining it but i will say i have built a couple of ak's
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 1:19:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JimTh:
Here's a pic of my chamber area. Maybe you can compare and see a difference?
Edit: Dangit! Fuzzy!
Edit again: There we go!
Edit thrice: From looking at the trunnion when mine were apart, it looked like the ramp was on a post which is driven into the trunnion. I don't know how you could ever adjust it.

home.insightbb.com/~jim-vicky/chamberak.jpg



JimTh, is that a real soviet build or something? i notice you have a strengthening stamping on your ejector. Where did that come from? Its a good idea for rigidity. Twistedneck.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:40:39 AM EDT
Doh! I've been dissed by the candyman!
I must agree that socandyman's resolution is an easy one and I would do what he says. As he says, he has built "a few".
Twistedneck, that's a GlobalTrades receiver.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:20:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 6:23:17 AM EDT by FREEFALLE7]
Dont feel bad, the bullet guide is a easier fix than I thought it would be.

When I built my Yugo UF I poped off my bullet guide when pressing in my barrel(3rd build)

I was pissed, but a good friend said he would introduce me to the art of taping and threading.

We drilled out the rivot remains and put in a screw to hold the bullet guide down.

He charged me $20 for his time, so all is well.

Replacing the bullet guide isnt a big task.

Just find someone that does the Saiga conversions,before you know she will be firing trouble free.




FREE
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:29:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 7:46:14 AM EDT by ozzy_the_nuke]
I would want to know exactly what the problem is before I would start doing surgery on one of the original factory parts. I have never had to file or grind on a carrier. And I have built a few. Not as many as some others, but enough to fill a safe.

To me it sounds like a mag problem. The mag should lips keep the round from jumping up prematurely. Since you say you have tried 3 mags, I would look carefully at the way the mag fits into the rifle and compare it to a good one.

ETA: Not triying to say anyone's way of solving the problem is wrong. Just saying how I would look at it. It seems there are nearly as many ways of building and troubleshooting as there are builders.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:46:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By socandyman:
open all 3 sides of this slot with dremel or file
on both sides of the carrier

home.comcast.net/~socandyman/carrier.jpg



So I want to make the rail slots both WIDER and DEEPER? Will putting some slop in the rail action affect accuracy?

How much should I try to file down? And equal small amount in one sitting, then test fire, and then repeat as necessary? Or is this one of those common things where you can tell me, "it needs to be *this* deep and *this* wide to solve the problem?

I'm not questioning your solution, just would like as much info as possible before I go grinding on a bolt carrier.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:48:31 AM EDT
Am I also going to need to add material to the ramp still?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 7:22:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 7:40:29 AM EDT by beemerman]
I don't remember you posting that the carrier was binding on the rail. Pull the trigger/hammer assembly out and run the carrier back and forth. With nothing in the way ,if its binding you will know then. If it is, then you will need to trim the rails. Also check to see if the center support may have gotten crushed. This would also be the point were the carrier would start to bind just after stripping a round from the mag. I would not grind on the carrier rails as this part was more than likely working inthe rifle that the parts came from originally. The receiver is the new addition to the system. I'm still looking at the ramp as being the problem. The mags lock into the front trunion and mag catch. Do the mags move around alot when installed? The distance between the rails should be 1"+/-
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 7:47:32 AM EDT
OK, once again my stupidity shows all-too translucent. I'm trying to analyze everything from everyone, and it is difficult because I haven't a clue what it wrong with it and y'all are being great sports trying to troubleshoot from afar.

My carrier and bolt are NOT binding. I know this for a fact. Removing the bolt and hammer, the carrier (both with and without the bolt) is smooth as silk. "Smooth as a prom queen's thighs, only not quite so risky" to quote Clint E himself. With the bolt installed, it is still pure parachute silk. No binding or anything. Goes from charged to full battery (with no spring) unhindered, all I have to do is apply very light pressure to the charging handle.

With the hammer in and cocked and the bolt out, the carrier cannot move forward as the hammer is blocking it. There is about 1/4" of material above the bottom of the carrier face from the hammer, and you have to slam the shit out of it to get it forward past that point.

With the hammer in and cocked and the bolt in, the carrier binds a little but not bad. Hard to describe not bad, but it won't just slide without *some* pressure.

No hammer installed, I can tilt the rifle forward and the carrier slides all by itself into battery with no hand pressure needed. Put the bolt in it, and the bolt and carrier stay in the rear position, but tap it and they fall forward under their own weight and momentum.

Put the hammer back in, and this all changes, of course.

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 7:56:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 8:09:05 AM EDT by ozzy_the_nuke]
The business about how the carrier drags on the hammer is normal. They all do that. Even my Bulgarian milled receiver (SLR95) does that. Some are worse than others. My Saigas with original FCG are the smoothest. You can smooth the action by taking some material off the face of the hammer, so that it doesn't push up on the carrier so hard. Rounding the edge of the hammer face where it first contacts the carrier will smooth the bump when the carrier first contacts the hammer. But I have never known hammer drag to cause the feeding problem you describe. If hammer drag is causing the problem, then there has to be another problem that it is working with. If that is the case, then solve the hidden problem and the hammer drag will no longer be a serious problem.

Having a round jam into the TOP of the trunnion/barrel is very unusual. At least, I have never had it happen. I also don't recall anyone bringing it up before.


I also dont think it is a feed ramp problem. The feed ramp would have to be grossly out of place to push the bullet up to the top of the barrel.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:09:42 AM EDT
OK , with everything back together with the exception of the return spring, grab the top of the bolt carrier. Apply slight downward pressure and slide the carrier back and forth . Is it smooth with slight resistance from hammer and trigger while in the cocked position?, and when you pull the carrier back to the rear removal spot, and release pressure does it pop up for removal? If so this is normal.
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