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Posted: 1/8/2006 8:47:10 PM EDT
I read a post on one of the forums regarding parkerizing with the insides of batteries. What info/links can I get regarding how to do this right? I can get all the cooking materials such as SS pan for boiling, gas range for heating; but I cannot get parkerizing chemicals to hawaii for half the price it costs you in the mainland to call brownells and have it shipped to your door. How can I park AK recievers and kits in a shadetree (but correct) manner?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:50:36 PM EDT
I found this post on the interweb:


Posted by Bossman (Member # 2768) on July 04, 2002 13:30:

I tried using the innards from a battery last night and it worked like a champ,Krico 600 mentioned that alkaline batteries use manganese dioxide and zinc,so you get either chemical.I hacksawed the top of of a gold "kodak" c-cell,inside theres a wet silvery paste in the center surrounded by a cardboard tube,thats surrounded by a dense black powder.I dug out the back powder assuming it was man.diox.I mixed it with about 4 oz. of ospho and 10 oz. of tap water,heated the mixture to just under the boiling point and set a length of 1095 bar stock in it for 10 minutes.
It came out a wonderful dark gray,looks just like the finish on my Dads M1 Garand.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:08:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
I found this post on the interweb:


Posted by Bossman (Member # 2768) on July 04, 2002 13:30:

I tried using the innards from a battery last night and it worked like a champ,Krico 600 mentioned that alkaline batteries use manganese dioxide and zinc,so you get either chemical.I hacksawed the top of of a gold "kodak" c-cell,inside theres a wet silvery paste in the center surrounded by a cardboard tube,thats surrounded by a dense black powder.I dug out the back powder assuming it was man.diox.I mixed it with about 4 oz. of ospho and 10 oz. of tap water,heated the mixture to just under the boiling point and set a length of 1095 bar stock in it for 10 minutes.
It came out a wonderful dark gray,looks just like the finish on my Dads M1 Garand.




Thats about what I was looking for, thanks. I have some experiementing to do before the build party in a few weeks.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:31:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 3:34:52 PM EDT by HankC]
You can find manganese dioxide or zinc dioxide at pottery supply stores for around $3/lb. JASCO rust remover from hardware stores for acid (75%).
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:29:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 8:37:04 PM EDT by ozzy_the_nuke]
When I made my home brew park solution I couldnt find any manganese dioxide for sale, so I cut up a couple of alkaline D cells with a hacksaw and used the stuff on the inside (manganess dioxide and zinc powder). Be careful when cutting up the cells. The alkaline (liquid), that some people (incorrectly) call acid, stings if you get it on bare skin. And it tends to squirt out when you first break into the cell. If you get some on you, just wash it off. Safety glasses are a good idea.

Dont know what the perfect formula is, but I used about a cup of Jasco to a gallon of water and the guts from 2 dry cells. Put it in a stainless steel wall board mud pan with seams sealed with high temp RTV. Heated to 185F. Added a biscuit of steel wool. Removed the steel wool after a while. Then cooked the receiver in the 185F solution until it quit fizzing. It turned the receiver black. It obviously doesnt require a great degree of precision. I think some people use less Jasco.

Adding some more info.

Jasco Prime and Prep contains 75% (40% by weight) phosphoric Acid. Alkaline dry cells (commonly called batteries) contain a mixture of compacted manganese dioxide powder, zinc granules and alkaline electrolyte. The manganese dioxide is the black stuff. It needs to be broken up. The Zinc is the metallic looking grit in the middle. There is also a cloth membrane in there. Scrape out and break up the guts and pitch the shell and cloth membrane.

Manganese dioxide and zinc are both good Parkerizing additives. Alkaline is basically the opposite of acid. When you mix the guts from a D cell with the Jasco two things happen. First, the alkaline neutralizes some of the phosphoric acid. Second, the manganese dioxide and the zinc go into solution and become available for plating out on the receiver. When you cook the receiver, the phosphoric acid etches the surface and creates crystals. This creates a surface that is great for holding paint or oil. The zinc plates out on the surface and provides corrosion protection. The manganese dioxide also plates out on the surface and blackens it.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 4:20:18 AM EDT
would you use the brake cleaner first????????????
Dose anyone have a favorite battery brand?????????

It is post hurricane season here in Miami and that mean lots of unused new batteries lying around in boxes.

Bare metal AK + batteries=
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:48:12 AM EDT
guess i know what i'll be playing with this weekend
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:11:37 AM EDT
Ozzy,

I've seen you recommend Jasco Prep and Prime several times. In the other threads you didn't mention the battery trick. Is this only for a better park job. My plan is to use the Jasco Prep and Prime and then Gun-Kote. Will this work?

Thanks

St
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:40:15 PM EDT
Photo kid what part of dade are you in I'm in homestead

Originally Posted By PhotoKidD100:
would you use the brake cleaner first????????????
Dose anyone have a favorite battery brand?????????

It is post hurricane season here in Miami and that mean lots of unused new batteries lying around in boxes.

Bare metal AK + batteries= hr
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:48:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 9:01:12 PM EDT by ozzy_the_nuke]
Yes, using battery guts is what gives the "park" the dark color. If you use the Jasco alone, it will turn a dull gray. The advantage of using the guts is that the surface under the paint will be black. That way, if the paint is scratched, you still have a black undercoating. But using the Jasco alone gives an excellent surface for painting. Basically, it etches the metal surface and makes it porous to the paint. You can prep the surface satisfactorily by following the directions on the Jasco bottle. No heat is needed to do a prep, so it is a lot easier than and full park which takes a lot more equipment (tank, burners, etc).
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:25:57 PM EDT
I've been using Jasco Prep & Primer with good success. The method I use is to dilute the Jasco with water, heat to a soft boil, remove from heat, soak the parts for about 10 - 15 minutes, rise off with hot water and spray with WD40. Later, I paint with MolyResin.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:38:09 PM EDT
Why the WD40? Don't you need an oil-free surface for the molyresin to adhere to? Or is it a temporary thing?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:51:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SIGthusiast:
Why the WD40? Don't you need an oil-free surface for the molyresin to adhere to? Or is it a temporary thing?



I'd say water displacment, but I'm learning a lot from this thread so await the answer as well. Im liking this, as I have used Duracoat on Parked .45s with great success.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:34:57 AM EDT
Killerone, I'm in the down town area.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 3:38:29 AM EDT
Dose anyone have photos of the finished product?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:54:15 AM EDT
t.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:01:28 AM EDT
taggage
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:08:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 9:31:41 AM EDT by ozzy_the_nuke]
After the park or Jasco, I rinse and dry and then hit it as soon as I can with Molyresin. If I wait before coating, I have gotten what I call after rust, for lack of a better name. It is sort of a white/orange deposit. It can be rubbed of, so it is mainly just an annoyance. It think it is probably due to inadequate rinse, or maybe too slow of a dry. I usually see it on the inside. I dont take any chances now. I paint it right away. If you werent going to paint right away, a WD40 soak might be a good idea. I havent used WD40 because I have been leary about how hard it would be to get it back out of the pores. It may or may not be a problem. Dunno. Havent had any trouble with paint adhesion using my method. No chipping or peeling. Once the paint (coating) gets into the pores and and cures, it is there to stay.

ETA: Oh, and I like to use the Molyresin flat black over the park. If applied in light coats to warm (100 to 120 degrees) phos treated metal, it looks like a perfect park. The color is very close to a Colt AR15. Kind of a very dark gray, almost black and very flat. If it is too flat, rubbing it with a rag before cooking brings it to almost a semigloss. From what I hear, the semigloss is most popular. Havent tried it myself though.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:50:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SIGthusiast:
Why the WD40? Don't you need an oil-free surface for the molyresin to adhere to? Or is it a temporary thing?



It's for water displacement. Prior to painting with MolyResin, I soak the parts in a acetone bath to remove traces of oil/WD40.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:00:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
I found this post on the interweb:


Posted by Bossman (Member # 2768) on July 04, 2002 13:30:

I tried using the innards from a battery last night and it worked like a champ,Krico 600 mentioned that alkaline batteries use manganese dioxide and zinc,so you get either chemical.I hacksawed the top of of a gold "kodak" c-cell,inside theres a wet silvery paste in the center surrounded by a cardboard tube,thats surrounded by a dense black powder.I dug out the back powder assuming it was man.diox.I mixed it with about 4 oz. of ospho and 10 oz. of tap water,heated the mixture to just under the boiling point and set a length of 1095 bar stock in it for 10 minutes.
It came out a wonderful dark gray,looks just like the finish on my Dads M1 Garand.




Ok,
I really need some help here.
I just bought a new WASR10(AK47)- great weapon but the finish on it was a complete mass...
So I decided to take it off with Blue Gun rust remover, polished it and then recoated with Blue Gun but I dont like the results hDo I need any other chemicals besides the batteries or just the black powder inside + metallic looking grit Do I need to add something else? What is Jasco?
Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 2:43:43 PM EDT
Jasco Prep and Primer is basically phosphoric acid. They usually sell it at home depot in the paint section.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:21:59 PM EDT
I just did some FAL mags and it worked great. I find you need to make your solution and then strain off all the steel wool that didn't break down or you will get a really rough finish.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:41:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 4:42:22 PM EDT by zilvova]
Thats good information so do I need to add Jasco to batteries solution or I can just use two bateries and their guts only?
Sorry for all the ? but I want to make it right this time...
Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:16:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 5:18:46 PM EDT by ozzy_the_nuke]
If I understand your question, the answer is: Mix the guts of at least two D cell batteries with one cup (8 ounces) of Jasco and one gallon of water.

Added note: A while back a guy reported that he used half a bottle of Jasco (1 pint) and it ate through what he was parkerizing. Lately, on another board, a guy reported getting good results with only 2 jiggers of Jasco. He was using manganese dioxide powder instead of battery guts. The alkaline solution in D cells will neutralize some of the Jasco. So that is why it takes more Jasco when using battery guts. Still, you might want to start out with less Jasco (say a half cup) and add more if it doesnt work OK. Just be sure to only add the Jasco when the mixture is cold. Adding acid to hot water is sure to cause flash boiling and spit acid all over the place (face).
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:49:03 PM EDT
GREAT.
Thanks ozzy_the_nuke
I will try it tomorrow. Will post the pictures!
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 8:28:32 AM EDT
Ok,
I went to 2 Home Depo's and they dont have Jasco?
What should I do? I I got the bateries but cant find Jasco
How should I explain them what is Jasco, what it is used for? Any other places I can find it at?
I'd like to start this project today...
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:40:37 AM EDT
It's not called 'Jasco' at HD, it's labeled 'Prep and Primer' for painting metal. Jasco is the company name.

You'll probably find it close to the floor in the 'specialty solutions' section of the paint dept.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 9:44:59 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:24:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zilvova:
Ok,
I went to 2 Home Depo's and they dont have Jasco?
What should I do? I I got the bateries but cant find Jasco
How should I explain them what is Jasco, what it is used for? Any other places I can find it at?
I'd like to start this project today...



You should find it in the same area where they keep Naval Jelly. Another product called "The Must For Rust" is basically the same thing as "Prep and Primer" but a little more expensive.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 10:26:01 AM EDT
what kind of steel wool what number should be added
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 11:41:19 AM EDT
t.

waiting on receivers.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:10:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Crowcreek:
It's not called 'Jasco' at HD, it's labeled 'Prep and Primer' for painting metal. Jasco is the company name.

You'll probably find it close to the floor in the 'specialty solutions' section of the paint dept.


I was looking for a prep and primer for metal from "Jasco" but they dont have it.
Is it possible to use something else?
Any idea if I can find it in PepBoys?
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 3:47:11 PM EDT
Yeah, a place like Pep Boys might have it or try calling a paint store like Sherman Williams to see if they carry it. You can also buy "The Must For Rust" at Home Depot... it's the same stuff (phosphoric acid) but a little more expensive.

Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:30:25 PM EDT
I got my Jasco P&P at lowes. And they didn't even know they had it. I found it looking for another source of phos. acid. And it was on top near navel jelly. Less than $7 for a quart.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:42:16 AM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:41:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 7:47:35 AM EDT by ozzy_the_nuke]
Basically, you are looking for a metal preparation product that contains phosphoric acid (NOT hydrochloric acid). Then check the company's web site and get the MSDS (material safety data sheet). They are required by law to make the MSDS available. The MSDS will probably provide the concentration of the phosphoric acid.

I recently found a product that appears to be the same thing as Jasco Prep & Primer. It is called Klean- Strip (brand) PHOSPHORIC PREP & ETCH. I think it was at Ace Hardware. It comes in quart and gallon sizes. I got a quart but haven't tried it yet. This stuff must be new because it isn't yet listed on Kleanstrip.com. Here is a pic.



Here are some Jasco links
Jasco produst description w/ pic
Jasco MSDS

Here is a link to a good thread on home brew parkerizing. I just stumbled across it while looking for the Jasco info. Check it out.
parkerizing thread
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:08:58 AM EDT
I picked up some Klean-Strip Phosphoric Plus at HD. I had to email KS for the MSDS. It shows a 75% phosphoric solution at 40% by weight. I mixed 1/2 cup of the Phosphoric Plus, 12 cups of distilled water, and the maganese from 2 "C" batteries. Heated to 180-190 degrees and dropped in a steel wool pad. At 35 minutes it was gone so I drop another pad in. At 50 minutes the wool stopped fizzing. I removed what was left of the steel wool and hung the receiver in the solution. It fizzed for about 5 minutes and then stopped. After 20 minutes I removed it and it had a uniform dull grey coating on it. It looked more like a zinc coating than maganese. I just dried it with air and then painted with flat black paint. Then it was into the oven for 1 hour at 300 degrees. I don't know why the finish was a grey color instead of black. Not enough maganese or something else?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:54:51 AM EDT
Sounds like you did everything right. Mine also got lighter when it dried. It would have gotten a lot darker after oiling, if you hadnt wanted to paint it. What you got should work great for holding paint though. I painted mine too.

Just one question. Did you also use the zinc granules from the inside of the battery? I ask because one of the other guys who tried this and got disappointing results took the granules out. I used them. I think they help. If you dont use the zinc, then more cells are probably needed. More cells might help anyway. A lot of the black stuff in there is carbon powder. I got dark results when I did it, but maybe that was a fluke. It seems that everyone is getting a lighter color than expected. Seems we are feeling around in the dark (or gray, as it were).

Something just occurred to me. I sandblasted mine first. That might be the difference.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:59:55 AM EDT
Locations and SKU numbers so maybe they can order it..Here
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:07:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 8:18:58 AM EDT by gunter542]
The receiver was washed with starting fluid. (Don't use in a closed room or near a flame!) Sand blasted with pool filter sand as it seems to be a uniform size and is cheap. Rubber gloves were used in the blasting and any time the receiver was handled. The receiver was washed, blasted, blown off with air, and straight into the park tank.

Tank is a SS mud pan from HD sealed at the ends with high temp RTV silicone. This is placed on a single eletric burner from Wally World. Steel wool is 0000 grade and degreased with the fluid. I just used the black part from the batteries, no zinc in the solution.

I tried this before and didn't leave the steel wool in long enough. It etched the receiver and looked like rust all over the inside. I let this solution cool and strained it back into a clean container. Later I reheated this mix and after being heated for a while the flock appeared. I tested it with a piece of scrap. It left a thin spotted finish on the test piece. So I don't know if it can be reused. I mixed and aged a new batch which left the gray finish.

There was a small area that I missed under the front trunion on the inside with the paint. It only darkened a little with the oil. Which the used diesel oil is as black as oil can get. The painted/oiled finish is very close to the rest of the Romy rifle, but I don't know how well it will hold up. I don't know why it is gray and not black.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:08:42 AM EDT
how do you dispose of the used solution
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:25:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 1:26:54 PM EDT by tapeo1]
You drink it silly! It'll put hair on your chest!

or a hole in your stomach.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:49:27 PM EDT
hmm parkerized guts
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:57:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By killerone:
hmm parkerized guts



Actually, I think Coca Cola has small amounts of phosphoric acid in it. Doesn't it?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:59:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By killerone:
hmm parkerized guts



Actually, I think Coca Cola has small amounts of phosphoric acid in it. Doesn't it?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:04:23 PM EDT
shit I drink gallons of soda I gues my guts dont need to be parkerised afteral
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:06:33 PM EDT
shit I drink gallons of soda I gues my guts dont need to be parkerised afteral
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:47:17 AM EDT
I need a complete list of everything you need to do the battery park method. I know that this whole section has been dedicated to it but there are too many differances in opinions. All I want is the basics. Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:08:27 AM EDT
I have a few thoughts to throw in the mix.

It may be important to use the zinc in addition to the manganese. Some earlier research that I did led me to believe that both zinc and manganese are used together in most commercial parkerizing solutions. I used the zinc and the manganese together and it worked for me. If the zinc isn’t used, additional dry cells should probably be sacrificed. I dont think you can use too many cells. Any excess MnO2 will just settle out.

It may be important to use new cells. As the cell used, the manganese dioxide (MnO2) gets converted to manganese oxide III (Mn03). Here is a link to a description of the chemical reactions. dry cell chemistry Manganese oxide III may not work. I don’t remember how old the cells were that I used.

I haven’t been able to find out how much magnesium dioxide is in a D cell. If anyone runs into this information, please post it.

The last several AKs I built were Yugos (blued), so it has been a while since I have needed to park anything. But I do have a couple of AKs that I am thinking about refinishing. If I have time, I will do them this weekend or next and post the results.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:32:57 AM EDT
Why does a steel wool biscuit need to be used?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:58:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 11:21:45 AM EDT by gunter542]
I don’t know the technical terms, but it “ages” the mix. If you don’t use it or leave it in long enough, then when you drop your part in it will never stop fizzing. The mix will just eat away at the surface of your part. If the mix is aged then the part should just fizz for 5 minutes or less and then stop. When it stops fizzing is when the coating starts.

I found this:
A dry cell comprising an anode made of zinc and cathode mixture which includes manganese dioxide acting as active agent and conductor such that acetylene black having a specific surface area of 100 to 150 m.sup.2 /g measured by a BET type nitrogen gas adsorption method is used as the conductor by setting a mixing ratio in weight of the manganese dioxide to the acetylene black at 7/1 to 12/1.

So, it looks like 7-12 parts maganese to 1 part acetylene (carbon) black by weight.
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