No they get grease as well. Though the lugs get a thin layer, the cam pin gets a heavy dose.

I use high temp synthetic grease for rifles and handguns.

I think most closed lubrication system machines that use oil are closed systems.

Most open system lubrication system machines use grease.

I think. Maybe somebody can correct me if I am wrong.

I think you're right.

I know things like roller coasters use grease, and they're exposed to the elements constantly.

I read this entire thread and think I have the answer to the question:

The M1 Garand and M14/M1-A require grease because the surfaces, (guide rail slots) and bolt engagement parts
are steel and so is the operating rod, all the parts rubbing against each other are Steel.

The AR-15's receiver is 7075-T6 ALUMINUM ( Anodized ) and the BCG is Stainless Steel.

M-14/M1 "Steel on Steel" = "GREASE, MANDATORY"

M-16/AR-15 "Aluminum on Steel" = "Oil recommended, Grease Optional"

I've used the grease and the oil from this place http://sconixoutdoors.com/shooting.html and it performed very well!  I also prefer a heavier coat of grease for longer term storage for those guns that don't get out as often.

I did go buy a bottle of CherryBalmz. I have a collection of greases that I really like for my collection: Tetra, TW25b, Mobil1, Lubriplate, etc. I just use whatever grease that I feel like using for the day.

CherryBalmz seems to work just as well and easier to apply.

Grease appears to work really, really well in every rifle and pistol. The cool thing is you can still use CLP to clean and protect most of the rifle while you only apply the grease to the friction points. Not very difficult to do at all.

There's your problem...I have a tube of General purpose grease I have had for 20 years... bought it for $.99 Use if for my Garand and M1A and a few other applications.


If I'm going to have a collection, it's not going to be of lubricant....

Hot water and soap. Rubbing alcohol if I'm bored

Who is saying I'm not using them? I still have 20 year old LSA in quarts. Still have RIG grease from nearly 30 years ago. My go to grease is TW25b and Tetra but I'll try out any new grease out in the market just for fun. It's not super big deal and what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't really matter what you use, so long as you use them.

Has anyone ever used Shooter's Gold grease from Sconix Outdoors?  It's has given me great results on my weapons.

Attached File

I find this thread interesting because I did try grease for the reasons listed here. I wanted it to work. I used Tetra gun grease on an AR308, applied fairly thinly, I thought. The tube says to use it very sparingly.

I was shooting in probably 30 degree weather and the bolt kept short stroking. I opened it up and I could feel how viscous the grease had become, almost tacky. I wiped it all off with a paper towel and everything ran great. Now, maybe that's what I should have done to begin with but that certainly doesn't sound like what folks in this thread are doing.

Either way, I've been using SLiP2000 EWL ever since and have had no issues. I can understand the appeal of grease but I can't get my head around its viscosity and fast moving, pressure dependent things like a BCG. At least not with "generous" amounts.

-Stooxie

Experience is what you get....when you don't get what you want.....


and that's what you got....Because you actually go out on a 30 degree day and shoot.......instead of collecting greases from the Grease of the month club....

Super lube is the grease of the month???

I've used the grease and the oil from this place http://sconixoutdoors.com/shooting.html and it performed very well! I also prefer a heavier coat of grease for longer term storage for those guns that don't get out as often.

Well see what happens with my choice of walmart grease once it gets cold. I've only shot in mild/hot, coldest was probably 45*. No issues there, but 45* isn't saying much.

I also need to test out the cocky coyote lubes that I got samples of.

If you're gonna use grease, better test it out in all the temps you are gonna get in your area.  

Since I know from personal experience that oil works from 120+ to -15, I'll keep using oil.  

If it makes you feel good to grease your safe queen rifles, go right ahead!

My grease is rated for -45. I've tested it down to 10F and it worked fine.

Never been in a colder environment than that though, but they make arctic rated lube for arctic environments.

It's unclear why everyone who opposes grease somehow has a belief that people aren't shooting their guns? It makes very little sense. Who in their right mind would attempt to use grease in -30 degree weather as their first time? Then, not only that, after which they got another popular brand that worked non-stop? That sounds rather suspicious kind of like how every Fireclean advertisement seems to be about how someone used it in a belt-fed .50cal machine gun all day with 1000s of rounds and somehow only had to wipe it down with a q-tip. The guy who made that story is a first time poster too and it seems to be a story repeated to one degree or another.

That's sort of like saying, "I bought a new fish tail surf board and on my first outing, I tried to surf a 100ft wave and broke my neck. I'm paralyzed from the waist down now, but no worries, I bought a brand new skidoo and now I can surf the same waves, no problem. Been doing it for years now."

Any time someone says, "Product X failed for me, and I followed all instructions, but then I tried product Y, without reading anything special and somehow it worked magically in the same setting" is going to make me automatically suspicious.

No reason to get your feelings hurt.  It's just a discussion about lubrication.

Everybody likes to claim they test in sub zero weather...but the truth is few do...Why?.. Because its rarely fun to shoot and enjoy yourself when its that cold.

And grease gets stiff in cold....regardless of the marketing claim.

Some guys do.

So this is a logic paradox. You claim that grease fails in sub zero weather because you are the only one to try it. You claim that you tested grease in sub-zero weather. Why? What is the reason you're outside, in this miserable weather, all by your lonesome self with a tube of hard grease cursing at the internet who told you otherwise?

Plus you do know that motor oil, as you claim is the best stuff, is used in a car. Car has grease all over it. All over the place. Guess you're the only chap driving in sub-zero weather. You're like a grease Marine. The few, the proud who tested it all by his lonesome self in sub-zero weather to discover the hidden, cold hard truth that grease solidifies and suddenly, everything he learned about on the internet is false.

Let me answer both of those from my perspective.

First, who's shooting in miserable weather? Ask any hunter. It doesn't have to be sub-zero arctic, either. Hunting in cold temperatures WILL decrease your overall gas pressure. Cold ammo, and cold powder make less pressure. Cold barrel, cold suppressor, cold gas block, tube and BCG sucking heat out of the gas which will also decrease its pressure. So ideally you will sight-in either during those conditions or at least knowing that you could have an inch (or more) of drop depending on your distances. Less pressure means less force on the action.

Which leads us to the next point. Yes, cars and lots of machines that are expected to function in cold weather use grease. However, there is a very big difference in the types of moving parts that grease is used for versus oil. Think about this: why isn't grease used for the pistons? Why aren't the cylinders just coated with grease every 25,000 miles? Even forgetting about the heat of combustion, why not? Fast moving parts don't do well with one-time applications, they need to be constantly refreshed with a THIN lubrication. Take a look at what is greased in machinery and you'll see that it's things like hinges, rams, heavy moving parts with lots of leverage and pressure behind them.

For a bolt carrier group in a semi auto you have another huge factor which is variable gas pressure depending on ammo, temps, etc, etc. Grease is viscous, that's a fact. It might lubricate better for parts that aren't relying on impulse and momentum to operate, but that's not the case with a BCG. A viscous lubricant is going to SLOW the BCG. You might have wonderful protection from wear, corrosion, etc, but that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job. It also doesn't mean your gun won't work. Obviously lots of people here seem to have success. In those cases their pressures are adequate or the grease layer is so thin that it's probably not doing that much anyway.

Oils get more viscous as well as temps go down, but nowhere near as much as grease which is highly viscous to start with. Technically, it's not even viscosity if thickeners are used. It really does act more like a solid at that point.

-Stooxie

Stop applying logic. It might hurt someone's feelings.

A lone hunter in the middle of the arctic desert frozen from the never ending sub-zero temperatures. All he wanted to do was hunt a elk in sub zero temperature. "I'll put this new coat of grease on my firearm that I read about on the internet and never used before," said the hunter as he was grinning. He traveled miles in frozen ice, covered in complete ice. His beard shows years of experience and patience. One would gain a sense of awe when seen. Then he sits up his camp in the frozen wasteland ready to get his first elk of the season. Something he done for years but today he just applied a coat of grease, never testing it because after all, he read about it on the internet so it's a sure thing to work. He spots his elk, it covers 1 mil on his optic, so he knows its 800 yards out. He carefully aims just where he knows the bullet would drop at that distance since he's experienced for years in this frozen wasteland. He squeezes the trigger, and click. Nothing. He can't even turn the bolt. Cursing, he realize his fresh coat of grease somehow locks his gun up. He started to question other things from the internet he read about was a lie. "What else is a lie? Those cat pictures too!?!? Not my precious cat pictures!" He cried, but it froze in the sub zero temperature. Then he tried Slipp2000 and it never happened again!!! He is so happy, he can't even believe it. "Why didn't I think of this before" he said.

This story never happened, btw. Just like how none of the other stories about how they used grease for the first time in subzero temperatures and somehow realized they should have went with brand Y.

BTW, I'm not advocating grease, if you haven't realized. I'm saying use whatever you want, since they all work. I use grease because it works and it works well. However, to say that grease doesn't work because of some theoretical, "nobody actually tried it" scenario that only applies to some small number of the population, then well that is bogus. It's even more bogus when someone adds a bit about how they tried brand Y and it magically worked.

I don't know what you're getting at. I've experienced this first hand. I hunt suppressed quite often and on a cold day you will absolutely get a lower POI. I tested grease in the cold on a BCG an it didn't cycle where oil did. Not saying it will always happen to everyone. Just sharing a real world experience rather than hypothetical.

What else do you want? Saying they are both equivalent is simply not true, even if both will work for most. Otherwise there wouldn't be different types of lubes.

-Stooxie

I don't know when people thought you only used one oil across all temperatures?

I use grease in normal temps, and arctic lubes if it gets that cold. Why is this so hard? However Grease is IMO superior to oil across normal temperature ranges you see most months.

The question is why should everyone else stop using grease just because you found it didn't work to your liking?

And yes, they are equal. There are different types of lubes out there because people buy them. Just like how a Colt "works" but yet you see so many different types of ARs out there. It used to be simpler with fewer choices that you knew worked. You find a brand you like, then that's it. There's no preaching about how something doesn't work in some condition and therefore it's invalid.

Yet, your rifle will last as long with oil as it does with grease.  Why is this so hard?

Another one with reading comprehension issues... Please point out in my posts where I make the claim that I tested grease in cold weather...this is the point where I ignore you...as you will make up shit to bolster your argument... Run all the grease you want. I have my experience any you have.. what ever you have...

I never said other wise. I find grease just keeps the rifle running just as long as oil, yet it stays cleaner in my time using it so long as you dont dunk the bcg in grease.

Dude, 

I'm just sharing some personal experiences so maybe we can all learn from each other rather than just bang on about hypothetical what-ifs. Feel free to do the same. I never said anyone should do anything. Apparently that's how you're taking it, though. Fascinating.

-Stooxie

Lubrication threads are fascinating.....and sometime hilarious.  

Yyyyep. They tend to become Holy Wars, don't they? And this is not even getting into "my brand can beat up your brand" territory. If you want a real holy was, start an M16 vs. AK-47!

What amazes me about a few of the posters in this thread is how they see this as an either-or. issue.  And the "what about arctic conditions" retorts? Good Lort!!!

I Shoot ARs as well as 1911s/M1s/M1-Carbines/M1As-M14s, and I try to take the "if it works for you" attitude. That doesn't mean I won't let someone who is in lurve with, say Baba Booey Lubie, know about a credible problem with it.

Grease and oil are not mutually exclusive. Well, so long as they are compatible! Tetra grease goes with Tetra oil only. Mobil 1 oil goes with Mobil 1 grease only.

Even on an M1, it is best to use both, depending on the part. The top rear of the M1's bolt rubs against the inside of the receiver's heel, so both get a gloss of grease. The op spring, on the other hand, gets oil

That said, other than the few areas which should remain dry, I first put a very light coat of oil everywhere -- just enough to keep rust away. You never know if you are going to miss a spot. I apply grease with a small paintbrush because a thin layer is usually plenty. I like to use cheap "acid brushes" for this.

As for grease on an AR, I use only a little in a very few spots. I use this as my general guide, but some areas he'd grease, I oil.

Archived Fulton Armory M16 Cleaning & Lubrication Page


One other thing... I really like Tetra, but it is too expensive. When I'm done with what I have on hand, I will be going to Mobil 1.

Keep in mind Fulton Armory has a deal with Tetra. So their opinions and articles will center around that. Not that tetra is bad, but don't assume just because it came from Fulton Armory that it means it's the best stuff out there.

And yes, you can safely use one type of items vs another. The fact that you can only use one brand grease and oil is just another advertisement point by the company. If you're splashing liquid together, then yes there may be a reaction, even with the very same brand. For example, if you mix oil and grease, you might get a really runny rifle that does the opposite of what you want.

It doesn't matter what you use, so long as you use it. I don't recommend slapping grease on your ar rifle the first time and taking it hunting in 30 degree weathers and assuming all will be okay.

I've always heard that you shouldn't mix brands of oil in a vehicle because they might react with each other....but I've done it many times and never had any negative reactions.  

I know that various chemicals certainly can react with each other but I have never seen oils react negatively with each other.  I've even experimented over the years by mixing various oils to see what happens...and nothing happens.  

I've never talked to anyone who can tell me they mixed oils and/or grease together and got a negative reaction.  

I've even used Militec for years and some people here claim that I'm basically pouring pure bleach on my rifle......but Militec has never bleached any of my clothes and my weapons always were well lubed and ran great.  

There are a lot of rumors, half truths, and plain bullshit out there when it come to oils.  Bottom line is....if there are 100 different types of gun oil...there will be 150 different opinions of what is best to use.  At the end of the day, any oil will work....you can even lube a rifle with WD40 and it'll work....but not as long as using a better oil because WD40 will burn off quicker than better suited oils.  Some seem to work better than others.  Grease may work although we know grease thickens more than oil in freezing temps so you do run a risk of a sluggish or weapon malfunctions in cold weather.  So, if you choose to use grease then you should at least test it in the coldest weather you might face in your area.  

We know the weapon does not need grease to run so I personally would not use grease but if you choose to use it...just make sure it works.  Or, you can grease up your safe queen and keep it nice and safe in your safe.  I have a friend who does that.  I don't understand it but YMMV.

I have a new switch to take a couple cracks at the dead horse...

Yesterday was my first time shooting suppressed. Same rifle as my other posts (my 1500+ rounds with no stoppages lubed with grease).

Tried to lock up on me with a round just out of battery after 100 rounds with the can on it. Figured it was a fluke. Cleared the stoppage, and tried to chamber. Locked up again with a round on the feed ramp.

Sprayed CLP (aerosol can Breakfree) on the lugs, cam pin, and carrier rails. No issues with the next approximately 150 rounds (I wanted to shoot more, but had to clean up).

I figure it would've kept running for quite a while with the grease/clp. Alas, she was filthy so I cleaned her when I got home.

I won't be playing with my can for a while, but next time I'm going to run some of captain caveman's (the secret sauce guy in montana) cocky coyote brew. We'll see how she likes that.

Since it is cold now, I will also go out the week after, if possible, to try the grease in the real cold. It's been around 20 degrees here lately. Early December is sure to be colder. Late December I'll try out the secret sauce and see where that goes.

I don't think the grease will give me any issues in the cold, but obviously it's a no-go for more than a couple mags when using a suppressor. Maybe another brand/type of grease wouldn't have these problems, but I doubt it. It seems that the extra fouling causes the grease to cake up. It was about as dirty (I think dirtier, really) after 200-250 rounds suppressed as it was 1500 rounds without a can.

We will also see if I notice any issues in my 590a1 between the grease/cold for gun season if I get a shot at a deer. I'll assume it'll be around 20* if not colder then.

Yes grease stays put...somewhat.

And once it is pushed from the exact lube point is stays put and does nothing.

Oil is fliud, it moves to and from the lube contact points.

The very same reason clocks use oil, not grease. The same reason an engine uses oil and not grease.

My first AR is a Fulton Armory. Does this mean I have to use Tetra on it all the time?

You don't put grease all over the action. You only put a thin amount of grease on contact area.

A car is a poor example. It runs at 1000s of RPMs whereas a gun, even in full auto will top 750 RPM and that's assuming you can feed it that many rounds and realistically you're only getting maybe 100-200 RPM if you can reload fast enough. The oil is also contained in the engine in a constant pressure. If you let a car run for just 1 second without oil, it will lock up and parts will fuse together. A firearm can fire without any lubrication and bone dry with everything cleaned with alcohol. A car and a gun are two different systems. A gun has very little amount of contact points. For example, an ar15 has maybe 5 contact points and they are so tiny that just a small dab of grease or oil will be enough. If you ever taken a small engine class (or even any engine class) when you rebuild the engine and gears, you coat all the parts with grease first. If you do not, the oil will not reach the parts fast enough and you'll have a fused together piece of metal.

A clock is another poor example. It is running in a contained space. Gears are also greased. Just look at clock grease and you'll see that many parts are coated with grease. As a matter of fact, I know those huge clocks like you'd find in a tower are in fact greased since they have huge gears.

Oil is easy for guns. A lot of people don't pay attention and just want to use it liberally. You can't do that with grease. You have to take time to put it on right and you have to put on the right amount. It's far easy to over lubricate with grease even though it appears like you put on so little. If you pick grease up with your finger, it looks like it's so little but when you think of the tiny rail space on a firearm, you're putting on way more grease than needed.

If high volume firing machines, like those in aircrafts typically are greased because the mechanical nature of the system builds a lot of friction. SAW and other light infantry belt feds are typically lubricated with heavier oil because there is more movement and friction caused by the higher RPMs.

The M1 and M1A both call for grease.  A friend is a Army Special Forces guy and he recommends grease.  Holds up better than oil when hot.

A funny history about M1 Garand is that originally you were issued oil. During the Pacific war, Marines started to notice their M1 Garand would lock up whenever it would rain heavily outside. So investigators spent a year looking into it and found two problems: 1) weapons were kept upright for a vast majority of time, so oil would collect at the bottom center of gravity, and 2) in combination to 1, rain would wash off the remaining oil thus causing a lock up. The investigators made a recommendation to use grease. When they made the 130-A specification, it only called for preventing a washout when wet, and they didn't care about temperature ratings. So the lubriplate 130-A was just that, preventing a wash out, but temperature ratings were quite low since where grease would be applied on a M1 never got too hot.

Now, on modern systems, the 130-A doesn't work too well. The temperature rating for 130-A is about 150 degrees. So in a AR15 system, it won't work as well if you shoot too fast. From what I remember, the military specification for M16/4 rifle lubrication, required a minimum temperature threshold of 170 degrees. So the lubriplate 130-A is just at the bare minimum of that.

Also, I spoke to a older WW2 vet on what he could recall in his cleaning kit. He mentioned he only got oil, not grease for his rifle. When I showed him this M1 cleaning kit I had bought, he recalled the tube style oiler but don't remember if it was yellow or not. So I'm assuming grease was primarily issued to Marines in the Pacific or places with wet weather.