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Posted: 3/14/2006 9:31:06 AM EDT
Some knucklehead in my local area claims that Break Free CLP is bad for Chrome Lined bore/chambers and should be avoided at all costs. WTF?

I've been using BF CLP for years and had no problems. Is there some new evidence to back his claims?

Here is my cleaning steps for the bore:

Hoppe's #9 wet patch down the BBL.
Let sit for a minute
Run the Dewey rod through with the bore brush 4 to 5 times
Run alternate dry/wet patches through 4 to 6 times
BF CLP wet patch through once then dry patch through and done

Have I been doing something wrong all these years or is this guy a fruitcake?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:45:32 AM EDT
I ruined 87 barrels with CLP!
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:46:46 AM EDT
Some people say the same thing about Hoppes #9. Usually the argument goes something like this: "Chrome lining contains trace amounts of nickel, which (insert your favorite product) dissolves".

My advice, ignore him.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:48:39 AM EDT
A guy I know who is VERY knowledgeable about firearms believes this crap too. All I have to say about that is that NOONE ever stole LSA from the armory to clean and lube private weapons. CLP is kept under close watch by .mil armorers as they wont get the spray bottles back from the cleaning detail.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:51:59 AM EDT
Sad thing about this guy is he works in a local gun shop. He may be trying to sell people some other products by making these statements. I don't know, I hear a new thing every day when it comes to gun cleaning.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:00:39 PM EDT
Ok,............that's BS!!!

Really, it is.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:11:04 PM EDT

Sad thing about this guy is he works in a local gun shop.


Should be your first clue!!

Total BS. Next time you talk to him ask him for the specific chemical reasons behind his answer. I bet you get .
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:07:17 AM EDT
gusnshop worker
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:48:21 AM EDT
.MIL approves the use of CLP with their weapons.
FN Herstal, a prime contractor supplying full-auto goodies to .MIL, also recommends CLP for such weapons as the P90, Mk 48, M-240, M-249, M-2 QCB, and F2000.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:01:54 AM EDT
CLP is a proven and healthy product for AR's. True chrome contains trace ammounts of nickel but Break Free CLP does not remove nickel otherwise all of our beautiful anodized finishes would be gone becaquse THE TOP LAYER IS NICKEL! Ok thats my 2 cents
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:04:54 AM EDT
what top layer is nickle????

you may have to read up on anodizing some.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:40:43 AM EDT
It has the same ill effect on chrome lined barrels as Wolf - NOTHING.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:43:07 AM EDT
I guess the electroless nickel finish on my Mossberg barrel would be fucked if this was true.

And it isn't.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:44:31 AM EDT
Read on Bushmaster's site about cleaning the outside. They say that if your chosen cleaning agent removes nickel that it will ruin your finish. I can attenst to having a Bushmaster and cleaning the outside with Break Free CLP and my finish hasn't changed since day 1
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:43:27 AM EDT
Can anyone verify that the AR-15 finish contains nickel????

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:58:12 AM EDT
As I understand it, at least some manufacturers use a nickle acetate clear coat on top of the anodizing.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:04:16 AM EDT
Would these finishes look shinier than the finishes w/o the clearcoat?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:51:31 PM EDT
I think that Bushy is probably referring to ammonia based solvents such as Sweet's or other cleaners that have a maderately high pH.Hoppe's #9 will stain nickel and thats why the products label warns about its use on such surfaces.Ive seen it first hand with a nickel 586 I had back in the 1980's.
Ammonia based or even moderately high pH cleaners can have an effect on anodized or bare aluminum regardless.Particularly if left in contact for an extended amount of time and not rinsed or wiped off and or left exposed to high temps.
Best solution is to keep bore cleaning solvents in the bore where the belong,and only for the specified amount of exposure time.Thats why I say use a bore guide as it keeps solvents out of the receiver and barrel extension.
The solvent in CLP has no effect on any of the surfaces as its pH neutral.
As far as CLP ruining a chromed bore....well I want to see the evidence.I think that after 20+ years if Break Free was going to cause issues it would have been seen by now,particularly with the military.That is to include the old chlorinated solvent version of the CLP during the early,mid and late 1980's.
The fact of the matter is that CLP does not do anything but help keep the metal clean and protected.Otherwise I say proove it.The Mil-spec sure shows no issues even with copper or zinc etc..
Problems with clp damage has not happened,or showed that Im aware of.And I used and followed Break Free for right at 14 years as a gun oil fanatic.
Maybe this is part of the myth that the PTFE in the Break Free,if in fact its still there which I have my doubts,will cause damage to the bore by the acids created when the PTFE is burnt or by causing uneven wear to the surfaces as the PTFE is not uniform on the surface.I say BS in either case.I have yet to see hard evidence of either.Just speculation and rumor.Plus the fact that PTFE does not stick to anything even when crushed,which happens at about 200psi from what I understand...if anything it gets blown out of the bore when the round goes bang.
Again no issues with my weapons in 14 years of using Break Free.Not to mention the high percentage of PTFE in the Mil-comm that I use.No problem there either.
I say all the CLP damage stories is BS.
If you want to worry about something worry about a funky dry bore thats just waiting to rust.Not to mention the abrassive carbon residue that grinds away at the bore every time you pull the trigger sending the bullet down range.Lets not forget the erosive nature of the exploding gases either.
Accuracy issues...well maybe that layer upon layer of copper building in the bore should addressed once every ten years too.
Whats the gunshop commando recommend?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:09:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:
Whats the gunshop commando recommend?



Militec-1 for its superior corrosion resistance and cleaning properties?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:15:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:
Whats the gunshop commando recommend?



Militec-1 for its superior corrosion resistance and cleaning properties?



Yup....I hear ya.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:50:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Militec-1 for its superior corrosion resistance and cleaning properties?





Good thing I wasn't drinking something when I read that, I would have needed another keyboard!!


Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:09:35 PM EDT

Tell me this is BS!


It is.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:15:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
A guy I know who is VERY knowledgeable about firearms believes this crap too. All I have to say about that is that NOONE ever stole LSA from the armory to clean and lube private weapons. CLP is kept under close watch by .mil armorers as they wont get the spray bottles back from the cleaning detail.




Lubricant Slimy All purpose

Works on everything - gives you an even Tan too!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:47:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 4:05:30 PM EDT by neilfj]

Originally Posted By ironsight-boy:
CLP is a proven and healthy product for AR's. True chrome contains trace ammounts of nickel but Break Free CLP does not remove nickel otherwise all of our beautiful anodized finishes would be gone becaquse THE TOP LAYER IS NICKEL! Ok thats my 2 cents



No its not. Its aluminum oxide. If you are referring to nickel acetate which is used to speed up the sealing process, the amount of nickel remaining after sealing is so minor that its negligible.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 11:58:58 AM EDT
Thank you gents. I proceeded to "put him in his place on the issue and told the owner (who is his FATHER) that I refuse to shop his store any longer given his son's lack of customer service skills and lack of facts pertaining to the AR15 family of weapons.

I hate it when someone puts down a product I have used for years with no issues and then "makes up" stories about how it's crap or will damage something.

I should have known better, thanks again fellas.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:55:58 PM EDT
RabidFox,

Don't Burn any bridges.
A local Gun shop stafed by Morons is still a local gunshop, and they are becoming rare these days.

If I could ask a favor......

Make the effort to educate the lad with the obvious.
Uncle Sam has spent uncounted Millions on R&D concerning CLP.
(New version, old version, whatever!!)
If the stuff was adverse to the weapon system it wouldn't be in the inventory, though it might lack in many areas.

Diversification of the cleaning and lubricants offerd, is in the best interest of the retailer.

Remind the old Man of the fact, in a hats off manner as a concerned customer.

Neighborhood Gun shops are subject to the Snake oil advertising, just as we all are.

Then again I can respect your decision of dumping them like a Hot Rock, when it's deemed appropriate.

Just asking ya give them a last chance.
S-28

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 8:40:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By S-28:
RabidFox,

Don't Burn any bridges.
A local Gun shop stafed by Morons is still a local gunshop, and they are becoming rare these days.

If I could ask a favor......

Make the effort to educate the lad with the obvious.
Uncle Sam has spent uncounted Millions on R&D concerning CLP.
(New version, old version, whatever!!)
If the stuff was adverse to the weapon system it wouldn't be in the inventory, though it might lack in many areas.

Diversification of the cleaning and lubricants offerd, is in the best interest of the retailer.

Remind the old Man of the fact, in a hats off manner as a concerned customer.

Neighborhood Gun shops are subject to the Snake oil advertising, just as we all are.

Then again I can respect your decision of dumping them like a Hot Rock, when it's deemed appropriate.

Just asking ya give them a last chance.
S-28




We have two others in our area, one of which is a good friend of mine. I guess I can give the old man (owner) another chance. He does have great ammo prices. The son is too far gone in his own little world for me to change his mind though. Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:09:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By S-28:
RabidFox,

Don't Burn any bridges.
A local Gun shop stafed by Morons is still a local gunshop, and they are becoming rare these days.

If I could ask a favor......

Make the effort to educate the lad with the obvious.
Uncle Sam has spent uncounted Millions on R&D concerning CLP.
(New version, old version, whatever!!)
If the stuff was adverse to the weapon system it wouldn't be in the inventory, though it might lack in many areas.

Diversification of the cleaning and lubricants offerd, is in the best interest of the retailer.

Remind the old Man of the fact, in a hats off manner as a concerned customer.

Neighborhood Gun shops are subject to the Snake oil advertising, just as we all are.

Then again I can respect your decision of dumping them like a Hot Rock, when it's deemed appropriate.

Just asking ya give them a last chance.
S-28




Well put S-28.

As for the topic, and as stated, totaly false information irt CLP.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:22:15 AM EDT
Revision E of MIL-PRF-63460 was released last week. There's no mention of Type I or Type II CLPs anymore (they were used in the Amendment to Revision D which was released last october).
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:55:33 PM EDT
I have faith in CLP but I think everyone should remember it's a multi purpose tool as opposed to being specifically made to do any one thing. I've found it does everything okay but nothing great.

Some parts of guns need lubricant but not a cleaner or solvent which CLP contains. I found that LSA and RBC do better. If you gotta use CLP as a lubricant I recommend spraying some in a cup and letting it set overnight, maybe some of the solvent evaporates out.

With all that being said Breakfree or CLP isn't gonna kill your gun, it just may not be the very best.
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