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Posted: 2/13/2006 6:33:35 PM EDT
I'm new to this sight. Hope this hasn't been covered before. I have a recipe for an excellent homemade borecleaner. It has worked for my misurps, AKs and AR15s. It's cleaned the gamit from corrosive surplus Czech 7.62X54R, Dirty Wolf 45ACP, pakastani 303, Yugo 7.62X39 to Q3131A 5.56.

I mixed this borecleaner from hardware store chemicals about two years ago and haven't run out yet. Special thanks go out to Ed Harris (the inventor) and Jamie Mangrum over at surplusrifle.com (for posting it).

Try it out!!!

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/edred/index.asp

Metzgeri
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:14:06 PM EDT
Holy cow! Acetone? Kerosene? Mineral Spirits? Tranny fluid?

Why not toss in some agent orange while we're at it!

No thanks

Folks, stick to the tried and true recommended fluids and materials.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:42:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 8:43:54 PM EDT by Metzgeri]

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:
Holy cow! Acetone? Kerosene? Mineral Spirits? Tranny fluid?

Why not toss in some agent orange while we're at it!

No thanks

Folks, stick to the tried and true recommended fluids and materials.



Let me see....afraid of acetone? Better not let the wife/gf use nail polish remover!hock.gif Afraid of kerosene? Better not light that lantern next camping trip!hock.gif Afraid of mineral spirits? Better not do any woodworking or refinish any gun stocks!hock.gif Afraid of transmission fluid? Better not do any servicing on your car!hock.gifhock.gif

Did you skip Chem 101? What do you think Hoppe's No. 9 is made of? Heck, they use to use MEK and other carcinogens (that means cancer causing, CrossOfStGeorge) until the EPA cracked down on them.

This is a cheap and very effective homemade bore cleaner that doesn't use anything that industry isn't using right now.

Ignorance is bliss, but it doesn't save you any money!!!
Metzgeri
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:33:52 PM EDT
Hell, I have been using Ed's Red for 5-6 years. good stuff.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:22:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Metzgeri:

Let me see....afraid of acetone? Better not let the wife/gf use nail polish remover! Afraid of kerosene? Better not light that lantern next camping trip! Afraid of mineral spirits? Better not do any woodworking or refinish any gun stocks! Afraid of transmission fluid? Better not do any servicing on your car!

Did you skip Chem 101? What do you think Hoppe's No. 9 is made of? Heck, they use to use MEK and other carcinogens (that means cancer causing, CrossOfStGeorge) until the EPA cracked down on them.

This is a cheap and very effective homemade bore cleaner that doesn't use anything that industry isn't using right now.

Ignorance is bliss, but it doesn't save you any money!!!
Metzgeri




Go get some MSDS sheets on all of those ingredients and see what they say.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:40:28 AM EDT
Everything that isn't 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen is potentially harmful to you. But these are common house/shop ingredients. Below is the section 4 paragraph for the MSDS on Hoppe's No. 9. I'm sure you've used it. Look familiar? Any less harmful? I've used it for the past 15 years and haven't grown an extra toe or developed a brain tumor yet!!

SECTION 4: HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS HAZARD DATA
Ethyl Alcohol 64-17-5 <35.0 No No No 1000 ppm 1000 ppm
Kerosene 8008-20-6 <35.0 No No No Not Determined
Trade Secret Ingredient(s) Trade Secret <25.0 No No No Not Determined
Organic Ester Trade Secret <10.0 No No No 100 ppm 100 ppm
Ammonia, aqueous 7664-41-7 <10.0 No No No 25 ppm 50 ppm
Remaining components are not hazardous and specific chemical identities are withheld as a trade secret under the provision of OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200).

Extracted from: http://www.copquest.com/knowledgebase/MSDS_Hoppes_No_9_Solvent.pdf

All I'm saying is that Ed's Red has the same ingedients as Hoppe's No. 9 (a few tweaks here and there) and is a heck of a lot cheaper to make. If you're freaked about mixing your own chemcials then fine, stick with Hoppes.

Metzgeri
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:45:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:
Holy cow! Acetone? Kerosene? Mineral Spirits? Tranny fluid?

Why not toss in some agent orange while we're at it!

No thanks

Folks, stick to the tried and true recommended fluids and materials.




How long have you been into shooting? Ed's Red has been out for some time now.

www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:57:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Metzgeri:

If you're freaked about mixing your own chemcials then fine, stick with Hoppes.

Metzgeri




Who said I was using Hoppes? Not me, because I don't.

Go read the MSDS sheets on transmission fluid and the rest of the stuff.

Also, Ed's Red does nothing for copper removal.

All I am saying is that with Ed's Red and most other cleaners, you need to use gloves and in a well ventilated area.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:15:24 PM EDT
I've been using Ed's Red for a couple of years and it works well on powder/carbon residue. Not significantly more effective than other commercially produced products, but it is substantially more cost-effective. (consider the price of tranny fluid, kerosene, mineral spirits, etc) I have close to a half gallon remaining after using the original batch for two years.

Here's a fairly decent review of many commercially available cleaning products as well as Ed's Red here: www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm

For those overtly concerned with preparing their own concoction, Brownell's does all the mixing for you here:
www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=19936&title=%22ED'S+RED%22+BORE+CLEANER

Just my $.02
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:42:35 PM EDT
GM Top Engine cleaner and Kroil

Benchrest's Secret Formula
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:41:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 9:44:13 PM EDT by CrossOfStGeorge]

Originally Posted By QUIB:
How long have you been into shooting? Ed's Red has been out for some time now.



Shooting/hunting for 35 years. Cleaning/fixing/maintaining military weapons for 18 years as a 45B/45K....and still counting. I'm 45 next month-----holy shit, I'm gonna be 45 next month have
I have done uncountable repairs on weapons and weapon systems because they have been "cleaned" by non-standard methods and materials, and have charged many units for destruction of Government property for the same reason.

I'm hardly afraid of these chemicals, none of which was invented nor formulated for the cleaning of firearms.

How about you? Or was this supposed to be a pissing match?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 5:20:35 PM EDT by Dave_Markowitz]

Originally Posted By QUIB:

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:
Holy cow! Acetone? Kerosene? Mineral Spirits? Tranny fluid?

Why not toss in some agent orange while we're at it!

No thanks

Folks, stick to the tried and true recommended fluids and materials.




How long have you been into shooting? Ed's Red has been out for some time now.

www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm



Hey, that's my site!

I learned about Ed's Red from Ed back in the mid-late 90s on FIDONET. If one bother's to read Ed's post as reproduced there, ER is a modern equivalent of a bore cleaner developed by Julian S. Hatcher at the Frankford Arsenal.

In my experience, ER works very well on powder fouling, less so on metal fouling. Because of the cost it is great for soaking parts. I keep meaning to pick up an ammo can and a strainer that fits inside, and half filling it with ER for use as a dunk tank.

Edit: I forgot to add that you can now buy pre-mixed Ed's Red from Brownell's now.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:57:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:


I learned about Ed's Red from Ed back in the mid-late 90s on FIDONET. If one bother's to read Ed's post as reproduced there, ER is a modern equivalent of a bore cleaner developed by Julian S. Hatcher at the Frankford Arsenal.




Not to take away from the General's stellar career and achievments in firearms developement. He developed his highly caustic, flammable, and dangerously toxic mixtures before WWII inventing had a chance to develope modern chemicals that are much more safe to use. I have no doubt, that GEN. Hatcher would highly discourage the use of his "red" were he alive today, and knowing what has developed in the firearms cleaning industry.

There is no little reason why the US military does NOT use GEN. Hatchers or Ed's formulas. There are better, safer ways to keep your weapons clean and lubed.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 10:31:37 PM EDT
intresting
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:34:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:

Originally Posted By Dave_Markowitz:


I learned about Ed's Red from Ed back in the mid-late 90s on FIDONET. If one bother's to read Ed's post as reproduced there, ER is a modern equivalent of a bore cleaner developed by Julian S. Hatcher at the Frankford Arsenal.




Not to take away from the General's stellar career and achievments in firearms developement. He developed his highly caustic, flammable, and dangerously toxic mixtures before WWII inventing had a chance to develope modern chemicals that are much more safe to use. I have no doubt, that GEN. Hatcher would highly discourage the use of his "red" were he alive today, and knowing what has developed in the firearms cleaning industry.

There is no little reason why the US military does NOT use GEN. Hatchers or Ed's formulas. There are better, safer ways to keep your weapons clean and lubed.



Ed's Red does not use the same ingredients as Hatcher's original formula. E.g.:

Hatcher's Frankford Arsenal No. 18 used gum spirits of turpentine, but turpentine is both expensive and also highly flammable, so I chose not to use it. Much safer and more inexpensive are "aliphatic mineral spirits," which are an open-chain organic solvent, rather than the closed-chain, benzene ring structure, commontructure, common to "aromatics," such as naptha or "lighter fluid." Sometimes called "safety solvent," aliphatic mineral spirits are used for thinning oil based paint, as automotive parts cleaner and is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits," "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol".

The other ingredients in ER areequal parts Dexron III automatic transmission fluid, kerosene, and acetone. Both acetone and kerosene are also ingredients in Hoppe's No.9.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 6:37:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:
How about you? Or was this supposed to be a pissing match?




The intent of my question was never to start a “pissing match”. You’re a new member to the site and I was simply asking a question regarding your level of experience. Based off your experience level you posted, I hope you can bring a lot of that experience to this board....we need it.

As far as me, I’m 40 years old, prior service Army, Desert Storm Vet. That’s just for the record, so you don’t picture me as a 18 year old, air soft pimple faced punk.

Oh, and I apologize for posting so late, I’ve been out of town on a business trip.
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