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Posted: 2/10/2006 10:07:16 AM EDT
What's the difference between these two items?
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 10:23:10 AM EDT
Never mind I found a page that describes the differences.

PCL

CLP

Break-Free
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 2:56:33 PM EDT
The only difference is between old and new formulas. What you buy at the LGS, is the same stuff I have in my vault.

Old had Teflon powder in the solution, requiring you to "shake well before use".

New eliminates, or radically cuts down, the Teflon.

The Teflon had a habit of finding places to dry out and gum up.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 3:00:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:
The only difference is between old and new formulas. What you buy at the LGS, is the same stuff I have in my vault.

Old had Teflon powder in the solution, requiring you to "shake well before use".

New eliminates, or radically cuts down, the Teflon.

The Teflon had a habit of finding places to dry out and gum up.




How does one confirm they have the 'new' CLP?
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:07:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 5:14:25 PM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:
The only difference is between old and new formulas. What you buy at the LGS, is the same stuff I have in my vault.

Old had Teflon powder in the solution, requiring you to "shake well before use".

New eliminates, or radically cuts down, the Teflon.

The Teflon had a habit of finding places to dry out and gum up.




How does one confirm they have the 'new' CLP?



Spray it into a bottle or cup and let it settle. White stuff = Teflon residue. However, RemOil which contains teflon, does not have white sediment on the bottom... But I found that RemOil leaves the metal "slick" even when dry. Walmart BF CLP does not do this.

The 4 oz aerosols I bought from Walmart all appear to be the new formula. The "civilian" versions have a bit more solvent. I bought a large 16 oz trigger spray bottle from Midway and haven't used it yet.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but its the only stuff that meets Type I and Type II requirements of MIL-PRF-63460 (Type II being extreme desert and Type I is general CLP). The Royco and other CLPs (Anderol, etc) only meet Type I. Slip 2000, FP-10, and any other vendor claim their product meets the spec, but they're not on the QPL. I found that my allergies aren't related to the Break Free CLP (it's something else) since my hands were practically dripping with CLP after working on my AR-15s.

It doesn't do a great job at cleaning or lubricating, but its protection from rust is very good - there are better products, but you can get BF CLP from Walmart at dealer prices.

FN Herstal specifically requires the use of a CLP meeting MIL-PRF-63460 for the P90/PS90. Bushmaster also recommends this for their ARs. If its good enough for the ugly P90 that fires practically full auto all the time, then it should be good enough for bench guns.

The latest CLP spec calls for much lower operation temps, so it appears BF CLP can now be used in quasi-arctic environments as well (down to -75F pour point) due to its PAO/Group IV synthetic oil basestock.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:44:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By CrossOfStGeorge:
The only difference is between old and new formulas. What you buy at the LGS, is the same stuff I have in my vault.

Old had Teflon powder in the solution, requiring you to "shake well before use".

New eliminates, or radically cuts down, the Teflon.

The Teflon had a habit of finding places to dry out and gum up.




How does one confirm they have the 'new' CLP?



The new formula Break Free uses a new inhibitor package that gives the CLP a green tint and makes the PTFE look kinda gray.The old Break Free clp had an amber color to it.
From what Ive seen the liquid bottles have no visible PTFE in them.The aerosols on the other hand do.
The aerosol Break Free CLP is as close as your going to get to military grade CLP.It has almost the same solvent content as what the govt. gets...the aerosol is also the old D formula..The liquids we get have very little solvent and is the new E rev..For differences in content percentages and formula questions check the MSDS's and contact Break Free.
Thats what I do.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:00:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:28:39 AM EDT by metroplex]
I checked the MSDS sheets and they do not appear to have been updated past 2004. I do know the latest CLP will not have PTFE. That should cut the amount of solvent required as well.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:31:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 9:37:28 AM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
From what Ive been told by Break Free,the new E formula does have the 1% per volume of PTFE.But I have yet to see it in the liquid jugs I have.Im not sure how they would make the PTFE transparent either.Not that the small amount of PTFE will make much of a difference anyway IMHO.Plus it saves all the rigorous shaking to get the PTFE back into suspension in the gallon jugs I buy.So Im happy.
The recent aerosols I have do have the PTFE and it has a gray tint to it with a green oil body.By the way,the inhibitor that gives the green tint is light sensitive and will go back to amber color when exposed.
From what Break Free's technical department has told me the solvent content was reduced in the new E formula liquids to aid immediate and more effective lubrication due to the higher oil content,and to reduce health and environmental concerns that have been set.Therefore the solvent content has been reduced to around 5% for the liquids if I remember correctly.
The aerosol uses the older D formula which has a higher solvent content,and thus thinner initially,to aid in getting the oil out of the can.Either way the aerosol and liquid perform the same after solvent evaporation which takes a couple hours or so.
The solvent content has nothing to do with the PTFE as it has no effect on its performance or application characteristics.
The new E liquid formula has less solvent than what was seen in the post 1994 D liquid formula.
As far as the MSDS's,from what Im told the last formula change that was done happened around 2001 and 2002 when Break Free changed to the advanced inhibitor package that is used now.From what I understand the new inhibitor was used to meet the higher corrosion protection requirement of the E spec..
Break Free tested the new inhibitor and formula for three years before going to it.So I'd say they know what they are doing even though the E formula has not been approved for military use.
I'd say the MSDS's are current.
I personally prefer the new E formula over the old amber formula that had the clumps of PTFE in it.The E formula is a bit thicker due to lower solvent/higher oil content but I think it is a better longer lasting lube as a result IMHO.The new formula does not clean as well as the old post 1994 D formula,but thats not so important to me these days.
I still say the old chlorinated Break Free clp of the 1980's and early 1990's was the best to date...but was a bit toxic.So I like what we get these days just fine.
I like the Break Free LP as well.Its much thicker so it stays put even better and seems to be much slicker.No solvent at all so it does not clean very well.
Either way the Break Free line of lubes is excellent IMHO.


Link Posted: 2/12/2006 9:52:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 9:53:52 AM EDT by metroplex]
Are the Break Free Spec revisions given based on the mil spec? The current revision is Rev D. It seems almost a coincidence that BF CLP is on Rev E, when the Rev E of the mil spec is slated to come out soon. Almost all the vendors are making their CLPs compliant with Rev E of the mil spec (Rev D is going to be superseded soon).

I will have to check my bottle of CLP to see if it is green when it comes out. The aerosol contents are amber in color.

My "Rev D" aerosole does not have clumps of PTFE and I cannot see any PTFE when I spray it into a bottle. It's just clear and amber in color. I find that it gives off fumes/gas when you shake it (outside of the aerosol) but after a few weeks, the liquid becomes thicker (solvents evaporated?)
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 9:59:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 10:14:31 AM EDT by Blankwaffe98]
From what I have got from Break Free's technical department the E formula was put into production for commercial sales back around 2001-2002.They tested it for three years,namely the advanced inhibitor package,before production.If you read,which Im sure you have,the rev.E requirements you can see what is required.So apparently Break Free took the leap foward years ago and started using the E formula while others have been trying to get into the running.I guess if you meet the mil-spec for twenty plus years its not hard to meet new requirements as they come foward.
The aerosols are still using the D formula for the reasons I stated.Now I have aerosols with the new E formula,which has a green tint.Labels on the cans vary as well.Some have the plastic shrink wrap type label while the others have the paper label.So there is a mix of manufacture dates/formula's still in circulation commercially I'd say.
But all the aerosols I have has the PTFE.The old amber colored CLP the PTFE is white looking.The new green color E formula the PTFE looks gray and seems to stay in suspension better and no clumping.You have to let the CLP stand for a couple hours or so to allow the PTFE to fall out of suspension.I use test tubes to inspect.
But like I said Im not real sure what good that little amount of PTFE offers anyway.I'd rather have the higher oil content that the E rev. liquids offer anyway.
IMHO Break Free has always been a top product and continues to be so.Ive been using Break Free's products since 1989 and have no complaints.If I had to describe Break Free CLP in one word that would be "reliable",mil-spec or not.Preaching to the choir here I know.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:06:52 AM EDT
I've let the CLP settle for days and I haven't seen anything settle.
RemOil is the same - it's supposed to contain PTFE but I have never seen anything settle in bottles of RemOil.

The solvents could potentially put the PTFE into solution??
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 10:36:49 AM EDT
I do not see how the solvents could put the PTFE into solution.PTFE is a chemically reacted to form its polymer type solid structure and is not easilly reacted on.It can be burned and crushed but thats about as far I know of changing its structure.Unless someone has figured out how to make the PTFE transparent which is very possible Im sure.Personally I have no idea as Im not a chemist or Lubrication Engineer.As a consumer I can just take an uneducated guess.
I could careless if that tiny bit of PTFE is there or not,but Break Free says its there so I'd have to say they know what they are talking.
I had the same PTFE question a few years ago when I started seeing bottles of Break Free CLP that did not show the PTFE.That was about the time the new green E formula started showing up.Some folks here said thier Break Free CLP had it and others said they saw no PTFE.I emailed Break Free's technical department and Mr.Yoder responded saying the PTFE was there.I have had both,so I do not know.But it seems the liquid form does not show PTFE at all these days.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:23:54 PM EDT
The latest E spec for CLP does not allow for PTFE. As I said, RemOil which contains PTFE, is totally clear so I'm sure they did something with the PTFE (1% minimal content anyhow). I'm not too hung up on PTFE content, it's just something I do not see in my BF CLP bottles. The aerosol version has very good corrosion protection - it has ousted FP-10 and Slip 2000 Gun Lube in my salt atmosphere testing.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:13:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 12:19:12 PM EDT by Psychojeeper]

How does one confirm they have the 'new' CLP?"

Just use what ya got till it's gone,,, it's not like the "trend-followers" at the range are gonna hastle ya for not being "up to date on the CLP issue".


Well, from what I've seen, they actually might, The protection and lubrication is the same, gumming up wont be an issue unless you lube heavily then stick your rifle in the safe, if you use & clean your rifle regularly, no worries.

I amcurrently issued "Break Free" labled CLP from my unit armorer, so I'd think the BF-CLP from Wal Mart would be just as good. Plus,,, I like the aerosol can.
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