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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:00:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 8:07:44 PM EDT by FrankSymptoms]
I'm new to the AR15 scene AND this (terrific) board. I have a situation that has occurred with EVERY firearm I've owned.
I scrub and patch, and scrub and patch, till my arms hurt. Then, when I've dried the bore, I send one of those yellow waxy bore scrubbing patches (LeadAway) down the bore and it looks like WWIII happened! The patch comes out very dirty!
I can send a whole package of these patches down the bore (using a push type jag , not the loop jag) and they will always come out dirty.
Just how long do I need to do this before I cry 'Uncle?'
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:30:54 PM EDT
I had this same problem. I found out about 2 cleaners that helped a lot. Mil-Comm's MC-25 cleaner and SLIP 2000 725 cleaner. Both work extreemly well to remove powder and carbon fouling. What I do is use a tight patch on a jag and run a wet patch with SLIP 2000 725(which I feel is best) 1st to get the loose crud out. Then spray a few good squirts in the barrel and let it sit for 5-10 minutes(for the 1st application, then 1 minute all others) then hit the barrel with a bronz brush for 6 to 10 stroks(in and out being 1 strok). I then run another patch through it. I repeat this till the patch comes out light gray after a brush scrubing. That tells you there is nothing left in the barrel the brush can loosen. It takes maybe repeating this series 10 to 15 time to get a light gray patch out.

After that I use a good copper solvent like Butches Bore Shine to get the copper. I do the above ruteen but with the copper solvent maybe only 2-3 times to get the copper out(paches show no green when clean of copper). I use a nylon brush for use with the copper solvent so it does not harm my bronz brushes.

I use 91% isopropal alcohol inbetween cleaners/solvents to nutrlize them and then dry patch the Iso.

I use SLIP 2000 oil also to lube and protect. I found that when I started to use SLIP 2000 oil in the bore it was much easier to clean as nothing sticks to metal treated with SLIP 2000 oil. It went from 30 times the above ruteen to 10-15 times. SLIP 2000 is truly good stuff!

Do this and you will have a 100% clean bore! Takes maybe 1 hour per rifle barrel and 30 minutes for a pistol. Quicker if you hurry but I'm slow.
Hope this helps and have fun!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:45:20 PM EDT
If you have a chrome bore, all you need is a Bore Snake and BreakFree CLP. Put a few drops of CLP on the brush section, and pull it through about three times. Wait a day or two, and do it again. The CLP will continue to lift the fouling from the bore even after you put the rifle away. Additionally, CLP stays in the pores of the barrel steel and keeps new fouling from adhering.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:25:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
If you have a chrome bore, all you need is a Bore Snake and BreakFree CLP. Put a few drops of CLP on the brush section, and pull it through about three times. Wait a day or two, and do it again. The CLP will continue to lift the fouling from the bore even after you put the rifle away. Additionally, CLP stays in the pores of the barrel steel and keeps new fouling from adhering.



In all my chrome lined barrels I still have to do the steps mentioned above but not quiet as many times. The Bore Snake works in the field ok but even chrome need a rod, jag, and brush to get it properly cleaned.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:49:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 9:51:11 PM EDT by DrjonesUSA]
The first thing to tell you is that your patches will never come out 100% clean and spotless.

That said, try this regimen below, it is a pretty standard cleaning regimen and should be just fine.

Here's how you should do it:

ALWAYS REMEMBER TO ONLY BRUSH OR PATCH FROM CHAMBER TO MUZZLE, NEVER THE OTHER WAY.

1) Soak a patche in Hoppes 9 or another carbon remover and run several different patches down the bore. (one at a time; not several at once.)

2) Apply Hoppes 9 (or another carbon remover) to a copper brush and run down the bore several times.

3) Run a few dry patches down the bore.

4) Soak a patch in copper remover such as Sweets 7.62 and run several soaked patches down the bore. (One at a time, not several at once.)

5) When the patches start coming out reasonably clean, run a few patches soaked with CLP or oil down the bore.

6) Run a few dry patches down the bore to remove excess oil/CLP, or leave a little oil in the bore to prevent rust if you aren't going to shoot for a while.


That's really all there is to it.

Note that your patches will simply never come out 100% spotless, and if you're trying to get them that way, you will only succeed in ruining your barrel by overcleaning it.

I just don't see any way you can follow the directions above and have patches come out of your bore completely filthy.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:53:44 AM EDT
Run brush through a couple of times to lossen any large particles
Run dry patch
Run wet patch with wipeout accelator
Spray wipeout in barrel

Let sit, go have dinner, watch TV come back in a couple of hours.

Run patches through until they come out clean usually less than 5

Disclaimer.... You will get nasty blue shit (copper) that runs out your barrel and will stain any surface. Just ask my wife about the stain.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:34:24 AM EDT
+1 to uafrad
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:43:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 11:51:12 AM EDT by Tack]

Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Run brush through a couple of times to lossen any large particles
Run dry patch
Run wet patch with wipeout accelator
Spray wipeout in barrel

Let sit, go have dinner, watch TV come back in a couple of hours.

Run patches through until they come out clean usually less than 5

Disclaimer.... You will get nasty blue shit (copper) that runs out your barrel and will stain any surface. Just ask my wife about the stain.



Sorry...but NO.

Disclaimer...I have been a Bench Rest shooter in the past, and this method is what guys use on $600 barrels that last for over 7,000 to 8,000 rounds that still shoot 2 tenths of an inch groups. They are NOT usually chrome lined barrels like MOST AR's, but the practice is sound for any metal surface to avoid damage to your barrel's lands and grooves

First......Never, ever run anything through the barrel "DRY" as stated in first and second processes (dry brush, and dry patch) above except AFTER the barrel has been properly cleaned. You can and will scratch the interior wall of the barrel by "Grinding" all of the crap that's in your barrel (carbon, copper, brass, powder fouling) into the lands and grooves with your brush or your patch.

Always start with a few wet patches. THIS is what removes most of the things that can damage your barrel. THEN, run your WET brush with solvent applied through the barrel 10 strokes. Blow off your brush with some brake cleaner, "Gun Scrubber" or equivalent, and wet the brush with solvent and do 10 more strokes.

Next, run 2 or 3 more WET patches through, followed by 2 or 3 dry patches. (This is the only time to run anything DRY through the barrrel.

(If you have a "Chrome Lined" bore...skip this next process, as it's not necessary.)

To remove Copper ( only once every 500 rounds or so is necessary on a Chrome Moly barrel, or SS barrel.), it is recommended to first "Neutralize" the bore cleaner chemical (Hoppes, Shooters Choice etc.) with an agent like alcohol or acetone. (I prefer Acetone because it dries quickly with no residue.) The reason for this is that "Copper Solvents" have Ammonia in them as the active Copper Removing chemical, and it does not get along well with Bore Solvents. (Chemical Reactions that are unfavorable, but I'm not going to get into that. You'll have to trust me or do your own research.)

ALSO...NEVER LEAVE THE COPPER SOLVENT IN THE BARREL LONGER THAN 20 MINUTES. IT CAN AND WILL PIT THE BARREL!

After you run the Acetone down the barrel on a wet patch, proceed to run a patch with Copper Solvent (I use Sweets 7.62) and let it sit for no longer than 20 minutes. Follow with a few dry patches, and an Acetone patch to remove the Sweets. If you live in a arid environment...you're done, unless you are going to store the weapon for a long period of time. If so, finish with a patch of CLP, MD Labs XF-7 or some other "Rust Inhibitor".

If you shoot your weapon often, have a chrome lined barrel and live in a arrid climate, you really never need to put a protectant in the barrel. If however, you live in a humid or Salt Air region...always finish with a "Protectant", but be sure to run a dry patch down the tube before shooting.

Of course, if you don't want to give your barrel the TLC I have listed, have at it! It's your barrel!

Tack
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:19:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:31:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 4:33:31 AM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By DrjonesUSA:
The first thing to tell you is that your patches will never come out 100% clean and spotless.

That said, try this regimen below, it is a pretty standard cleaning regimen and should be just fine.

Here's how you should do it:

ALWAYS REMEMBER TO ONLY BRUSH OR PATCH FROM CHAMBER TO MUZZLE, NEVER THE OTHER WAY.

1) Soak a patche in Hoppes 9 or another carbon remover and run several different patches down the bore. (one at a time; not several at once.)

2) Apply Hoppes 9 (or another carbon remover) to a copper brush and run down the bore several times.

3) Run a few dry patches down the bore.

4) Soak a patch in copper remover such as Sweets 7.62 and run several soaked patches down the bore. (One at a time, not several at once.)

5) When the patches start coming out reasonably clean, run a few patches soaked with CLP or oil down the bore.

6) Run a few dry patches down the bore to remove excess oil/CLP, or leave a little oil in the bore to prevent rust if you aren't going to shoot for a while.




That's pretty much what I do. I'll let the Hoppe's sit in the barrel for a while (half hour or so) to help loosen up crud, and use Sweet's as a last step, letting it sit for 15 minutes. Neutralize the Sweet's, run a few clp coated patches, and either run a couple of dry patches or put it away with CLP in the barrel if it's going to sit for a while. You do have to remember to patch out the CLP later before you shoot the gun though. A barrel that has sat for a year with CLP in it will show a little more copper when you swab it out after a year.

I believe more AR barrels (chrome lined) have been ruined by over cleaning than anything else.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tack:

Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Run brush through a couple of times to lossen any large particles
Run dry patch
Run wet patch with wipeout accelator
Spray wipeout in barrel

Let sit, go have dinner, watch TV come back in a couple of hours.

Run patches through until they come out clean usually less than 5

Disclaimer.... You will get nasty blue shit (copper) that runs out your barrel and will stain any surface. Just ask my wife about the stain.



Sorry...but NO.

Disclaimer...I have been a Bench Rest shooter in the past, and this method is what guys use on $600 barrels that last for over 7,000 to 8,000 rounds that still shoot 2 tenths of an inch groups. They are NOT usually chrome lined barrels like MOST AR's, but the practice is sound for any metal surface to avoid damage to your barrel's lands and grooves

First......Never, ever run anything through the barrel "DRY" as stated in first and second processes (dry brush, and dry patch) above except AFTER the barrel has been properly cleaned. You can and will scratch the interior wall of the barrel by "Grinding" all of the crap that's in your barrel (carbon, copper, brass, powder fouling) into the lands and grooves with your brush or your patch.

Always start with a few wet patches. THIS is what removes most of the things that can damage your barrel. THEN, run your WET brush with solvent applied through the barrel 10 strokes. Blow off your brush with some brake cleaner, "Gun Scrubber" or equivalent, and wet the brush with solvent and do 10 more strokes.

Next, run 2 or 3 more WET patches through, followed by 2 or 3 dry patches. (This is the only time to run anything DRY through the barrrel.

(If you have a "Chrome Lined" bore...skip this next process, as it's not necessary.)

To remove Copper ( only once every 500 rounds or so is necessary on a Chrome Moly barrel, or SS barrel.), it is recommended to first "Neutralize" the bore cleaner chemical (Hoppes, Shooters Choice etc.) with an agent like alcohol or acetone. (I prefer Acetone because it dries quickly with no residue.) The reason for this is that "Copper Solvents" have Ammonia in them as the active Copper Removing chemical, and it does not get along well with Bore Solvents. (Chemical Reactions that are unfavorable, but I'm not going to get into that. You'll have to trust me or do your own research.)

ALSO...NEVER LEAVE THE COPPER SOLVENT IN THE BARREL LONGER THAN 20 MINUTES. IT CAN AND WILL PIT THE BARREL!

After you run the Acetone down the barrel on a wet patch, proceed to run a patch with Copper Solvent (I use Sweets 7.62) and let it sit for no longer than 20 minutes. Follow with a few dry patches, and an Acetone patch to remove the Sweets. If you live in a arid environment...you're done, unless you are going to store the weapon for a long period of time. If so, finish with a patch of CLP, MD Labs XF-7 or some other "Rust Inhibitor".

If you shoot your weapon often, have a chrome lined barrel and live in a arrid climate, you really never need to put a protectant in the barrel. If however, you live in a humid or Salt Air region...always finish with a "Protectant", but be sure to run a dry patch down the tube before shooting.

Of course, if you don't want to give your barrel the TLC I have listed, have at it! It's your barrel!

Tack




Tack is right. DO NOT do what other posters mentioned unless you want to damage your barrel. NEVER mix solvents or CLP with solvents. Never let a copper solvent sit in the barrel for more than 15 to 20 min. Use a coated rod and a bore guide at all times. Brass/bronze brushes not steel. Brass Jags. And lastly, remember that you can do more damage by impropper cleaning than you can by a lack of cleaning. Jointed steel or aluminum rods...ouch.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:57:48 AM EDT

Take a look at this. I picked some up (Wal-Mart) and will be using it after this weekend.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=258386
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:10:45 PM EDT
Thanks for all the input! Especially about the Sweets... everyone I talk to say the stuff is barely-contained evil hooting
"So many toys... so little money!"
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:22:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:

Originally Posted By Tack:

Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Run brush through a couple of times to lossen any large particles
Run dry patch
Run wet patch with wipeout accelator
Spray wipeout in barrel

Let sit, go have dinner, watch TV come back in a couple of hours.

Run patches through until they come out clean usually less than 5

Disclaimer.... You will get nasty blue shit (copper) that runs out your barrel and will stain any surface. Just ask my wife about the stain.



Sorry...but NO.

Disclaimer...I have been a Bench Rest shooter in the past, and this method is what guys use on $600 barrels that last for over 7,000 to 8,000 rounds that still shoot 2 tenths of an inch groups. They are NOT usually chrome lined barrels like MOST AR's, but the practice is sound for any metal surface to avoid damage to your barrel's lands and grooves

First......Never, ever run anything through the barrel "DRY" as stated in first and second processes (dry brush, and dry patch) above except AFTER the barrel has been properly cleaned. You can and will scratch the interior wall of the barrel by "Grinding" all of the crap that's in your barrel (carbon, copper, brass, powder fouling) into the lands and grooves with your brush or your patch.

Always start with a few wet patches. THIS is what removes most of the things that can damage your barrel. THEN, run your WET brush with solvent applied through the barrel 10 strokes. Blow off your brush with some brake cleaner, "Gun Scrubber" or equivalent, and wet the brush with solvent and do 10 more strokes.

Next, run 2 or 3 more WET patches through, followed by 2 or 3 dry patches. (This is the only time to run anything DRY through the barrrel.

(If you have a "Chrome Lined" bore...skip this next process, as it's not necessary.)

To remove Copper ( only once every 500 rounds or so is necessary on a Chrome Moly barrel, or SS barrel.), it is recommended to first "Neutralize" the bore cleaner chemical (Hoppes, Shooters Choice etc.) with an agent like alcohol or acetone. (I prefer Acetone because it dries quickly with no residue.) The reason for this is that "Copper Solvents" have Ammonia in them as the active Copper Removing chemical, and it does not get along well with Bore Solvents. (Chemical Reactions that are unfavorable, but I'm not going to get into that. You'll have to trust me or do your own research.)

ALSO...NEVER LEAVE THE COPPER SOLVENT IN THE BARREL LONGER THAN 20 MINUTES. IT CAN AND WILL PIT THE BARREL!

After you run the Acetone down the barrel on a wet patch, proceed to run a patch with Copper Solvent (I use Sweets 7.62) and let it sit for no longer than 20 minutes. Follow with a few dry patches, and an Acetone patch to remove the Sweets. If you live in a arid environment...you're done, unless you are going to store the weapon for a long period of time. If so, finish with a patch of CLP, MD Labs XF-7 or some other "Rust Inhibitor".

If you shoot your weapon often, have a chrome lined barrel and live in a arrid climate, you really never need to put a protectant in the barrel. If however, you live in a humid or Salt Air region...always finish with a "Protectant", but be sure to run a dry patch down the tube before shooting.

Of course, if you don't want to give your barrel the TLC I have listed, have at it! It's your barrel!

Tack




Tack is right. DO NOT do what other posters mentioned unless you want to damage your barrel. NEVER mix solvents or CLP with solvents. Never let a copper solvent sit in the barrel for more than 15 to 20 min. Use a coated rod and a bore guide at all times. Brass/bronze brushes not steel. Brass Jags. And lastly, remember that you can do more damage by impropper cleaning than you can by a lack of cleaning. Jointed steel or aluminum rods...ouch.



I've been cleaning my way posted above for decades . My Solvents have changed over the years though. I have never harmed any part of my 40 gun collection......ever.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:08:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tack:



(If you have a "Chrome Lined" bore...skip this next process, as it's not necessary.)

To remove Copper ( only once every 500 rounds or so is necessary on a Chrome Moly barrel, or SS barrel.), it is recommended to first "Neutralize" the bore cleaner chemical (Hoppes, Shooters Choice etc.) with an agent like alcohol or acetone. (I prefer Acetone because it dries quickly with no residue.) The reason for this is that "Copper Solvents" have Ammonia in them as the active Copper Removing chemical, and it does not get along well with Bore Solvents. (Chemical Reactions that are unfavorable, but I'm not going to get into that. You'll have to trust me or do your own research.)

ALSO...NEVER LEAVE THE COPPER SOLVENT IN THE BARREL LONGER THAN 20 MINUTES. IT CAN AND WILL PIT THE BARREL!

After you run the Acetone down the barrel on a wet patch, proceed to run a patch with Copper Solvent (I use Sweets 7.62) and let it sit for no longer than 20 minutes. Follow with a few dry patches, and an Acetone patch to remove the Sweets. If you live in a arid environment...you're done, unless you are going to store the weapon for a long period of time. If so, finish with a patch of CLP, MD Labs XF-7 or some other "Rust Inhibitor".

Tack



Why do you say it's not needed on a chrome lined barrel? When I've used some copper solvent in chrome lined bores, I've gotten out some copper. Isn't it good to get rid of whatever is there every once in a while? I guess that not as much builds up, but since some does, it can't hurt to get rid of it can it?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:27:14 PM EDT
My barrel is also chromed lined, and i am wondering if using a copper solvent will somehow damage it.
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