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Posted: 12/26/2005 1:30:58 PM EDT
I've been using this stuff in my DPMS AP4 .308 and have yet to have a jam or hick-up. They claim a metal treatment additive which bonds with metal. I just received two tubes of XF7 by MD labs for Christmas,. I decided to try this stuff out and followed their instructions to the letter. What bothers me about the XF7 is the instructions to coat the bolt carrier and carrier race with synthetic motor oil, I used Mobil 1 5W-30. I don't see how the motor oil is as advanced as the FP-10? Is the FP-10 compatable with the XF7? Should I just forget the XF7 and use the FP-10 on everything as it has been working fine? Also I'm still confused on the amount of lube to use, some say load up with lube on everything while others say to use lube sparingly? Input is appreciatedhinking.gif
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:22:06 PM EDT
Find a user by the name of Different, he can be found in the M1A section of this fourm. I know he lspeaks well of xd7 lube for the m1a m1 actions.

I would go with a light coating of grease.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:12:06 PM EDT
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:34:49 AM EDT
In my experience, FP-10 is good stuff. I have seen very few complaints about it on any board. My AR (along with other weapons) ran perfect with it as well.

The MD labs stuff is as of yet, unproven. I'd stick with the FP-10.

"What bothers me about the XF7 is the instructions to coat the bolt carrier and carrier race with synthetic motor oil"

This bothers me too. Should be a clue to something wrong if they are telling you to use another lube along with their own (especially as expensive as that stuff is).
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:34:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 8:34:59 AM EDT by romulus]

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.


It's also just about the only product that reveals its base chemistry and the role of each component. Wheteher you like it or not, whether it protects your guns to your satifaction or not, their claims are supported by documentation and not mere claptrap, "bonds to steel at the molecular level" and similar tripe. Nor does the MSDS list their secret ingredient as "proprietary/trade secret". The CAS numbers are all there, as are the percentages.

Can't say that for XF7
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:43:49 AM EDT

Most lubes on the market will serve your AR equally. FP-10 lacks in the cleaning and protection department IMO. At least when compared to others out there. I think their website boasts far too much.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:04:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Horik:
FP-10 lacks in the cleaning and protection department IMO. I think their website boasts far too much.



Exactly my findings! It does not protect against rust very well and their website claims nothing is better at rust protection them FP-10. It's pure bull shit and their website is FULL of it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:16:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 1:48:42 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By romulus:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.


It's also just about the only product that reveals its base chemistry and the role of each component. Wheteher you like it or not, whether it protects your guns to your satifaction or not, their claims are supported by documentation and not mere claptrap, "bonds to steel at the molecular level" and similar tripe. Nor does the MSDS list their secret ingredient as "proprietary/trade secret". The CAS numbers are all there, as are the percentages.

Can't say that for XF7



Well here is my long winded opinion.
I dont know a single thing about XF7 and Im just not interested.If I need a weapons grease I will stick with Mil-comm's TW-25B.
All I know is the FP-10 has served me exremely well and tests good in my back yard for corrosion resistance.
I guess after over three years of using FP-10,and a bunch of it,on my weapons I should have seen corrosion if it was going to happen.And I have not.
Whats to read here?
Are we talking about the salt water dunk test,or as I call it the salt water emulsification/solubility test that was done by a couple members here?
This test is just not something that I would base my selection on.Also,as I have seen first hand in my repeat of the test,all the product coated substrates fail rather fast with this test which leads me to the conclusion its just too harsh.Some do better than others but the test is just too difficult to repeat back to back.A product does well in one test and fails in the next.Which leads me to believe the procedure is flawed.Heck whats next battery acid?
Who uses a salt water soak test that runs for hours like this.Ive never read an ASTM test like this.I believe the mil-spec requirement that describes the dunk test describes it as,well a dunk in salt water and allowed to dry before live fire.Correct me if Im wrong.Otherwise I could care less either way.
Sure the dunk test gives some idea of which product is most effective long term...but whats the conclusion other than do not soak weapons in salt water for hours without PM.
Or are we talking about first hand experience with corrosion on weapons in actual use?
I have yet to read anywhere that a person has had a corrosion issue with FP-10 on a weapon.Like I said I aint seen corrosion on my weapons.If there is someone out there that has had corrosion issues I willing to listen.
All I read are folks testing a FP-10 sample etc..
Considering the guarantee offered by MPC I believe I would be on the phone with my complaint to MPC as soon as I saw an issue with my weapons.
As far as a cleaner...yeah FP-10 is a slow cleaner due to the fact it contains absolutely no solvents.FP-10 uses a base oil as a solvent much like the slow cleaning Slip2000 CLP.But they work it just takes time...and safer for my health IMHO.Personally if I need a solvent I use a solvent.
As a lube the FP-10 is outstanding and Im not alone in that thinking...even its competitors admit that.Enough so,in my opinion,that even if its does not protect as well as other lubes I prefer its use.Considering my PM routine at home and in the field I dont think I will see any issues no matter what I use.
Yeah I agree the former owner of MPC(George Fennell)did his share of horn blowing and told him that to his face at a 3-gun match.But as pointed out by romulus,the technical papers and formula is easy to research and verify,both online and in the library using the references listed at the bottom of the pages...but you have to do your own research and there are several areas involved.As far as the ASTM testing the contact information is also provided for verification.
As for the FP-10 web site and its so called "hype information",its no longer available.So some of yall need to update your resources.
MPC changed hands over a year ago.The new owners of MPC have relocated the plant,done away with the FP-10 web site of old,and unfortunately the information it contained.Personally I enjoyed the technical papers and information provided.But there again I did my own research over the last five years so I know what Im looking for.
As a final note for us FP-10 fans...Im told that the FP-10 will not be sold factory direct/retail anymore.Dealers and distibutors such as Bushmaster,DSArms,OlyArms etc. will be the source or under the Shooters Choice label.
No I do not work for MPC,get paid or otherwise.Im not a Lubrication Engineer either...just a consumer that likes what floats my boat.
And no FP-10 is not the only gun care product or lube I use.I have a few favorites...FP-10 is just one of the best I have used to date.

Edit for correction:
The rumor I heard about FP-10 not being sold factory direct/retail to individuals was incorrect.Retail sales are accepted through the 1-800-number as always.

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 3:01:01 AM EDT
Blank any info on the PL-10 grease they sell. I buy a case at a time. No one locally hear has the stuff. Use that grease on my m1 type actions as well as all my GP automotive/ tractor/ machine requirments
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:07:41 AM EDT
I've used FP-10 as well as many other lubes/CLP etc, and I found that Eezox outdoes them all at cleaning, lubing and protecting my firearms. Whether its my AR-15's or my revolvers or auto's, Eezox cleans them very well, and keeps them lube and rust free.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:52:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 7:10:14 AM EDT by jmart]

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:

Originally Posted By romulus:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.


It's also just about the only product that reveals its base chemistry and the role of each component. Wheteher you like it or not, whether it protects your guns to your satifaction or not, their claims are supported by documentation and not mere claptrap, "bonds to steel at the molecular level" and similar tripe. Nor does the MSDS list their secret ingredient as "proprietary/trade secret". The CAS numbers are all there, as are the percentages.

Can't say that for XF7



All I know is the FP-10 has served me exremely well and tests good in my back yard for corrosion resistance.

I guess after over three years of using FP-10,and a bunch of it,on my weapons I should have seen corrosion if it was going to happen.And I have not.

Whats to read here?

Are we talking about the salt water dunk test,or as I call it the salt water emulsification/solubility test that was done by a couple members here? This test is just not something that I would base my selection on. Also,as I have seen first hand in my repeat of the test, all the product coated substrates fail rather fast with this test which leads me to the conclusion its just too harsh. Some do better than others but the test is just too difficult to repeat back to back. A product does well in one test and fails in the next. Which leads me to believe the procedure is flawed.Heck whats next battery acid?

Who uses a salt water soak test that runs for hours like this? Ive never read an ASTM test like this. I believe the mil-spec requirement that describes the dunk test describes it as,well a dunk in salt water and allowed to dry before live fire. Correct me if Im wrong.



You mean you don't routinely store your cleaned weapon in a high humidity, salt spray cabinet? What are you, crazy?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:29:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jmart:


You mean you don't routinely store your cleaned weapon in a high humidity, salt spray cabinet? What are you, crazy?



ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! You are right! I wonder if our search for the perfect oil is really in vain. The gun will probibly last as long using cooking oil as a lube and protectant!
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:18:38 PM EDT
I used, used peanut oil once to free up a buddies pump shot gun, it worked, just smelled of fish.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 2:37:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Blank any info on the PL-10 grease they sell. I buy a case at a time. No one locally hear has the stuff. Use that grease on my m1 type actions as well as all my GP automotive/ tractor/ machine requirments




Well no not really.All I can tell you is that its a lithium complex grease and contains the MT-10.I use it in my Ramcharger bearings and u-joints.It has extended the service life of the u-joints to almost twice what I was getting.Lifted,big motor and big tires take a toll.
Its an excellent NLGI #2 grease.
Only use I have for it on a weapon is for barrel and FH threads.Although I did try some of the bolt locking lever of the CETME and G3.Otherwise its just too thick.
I like the TW-25B for weapons.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 2:39:35 PM EDT
understood.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 2:40:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jmart:

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:

Originally Posted By romulus:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.


It's also just about the only product that reveals its base chemistry and the role of each component. Wheteher you like it or not, whether it protects your guns to your satifaction or not, their claims are supported by documentation and not mere claptrap, "bonds to steel at the molecular level" and similar tripe. Nor does the MSDS list their secret ingredient as "proprietary/trade secret". The CAS numbers are all there, as are the percentages.

Can't say that for XF7



All I know is the FP-10 has served me exremely well and tests good in my back yard for corrosion resistance.

I guess after over three years of using FP-10,and a bunch of it,on my weapons I should have seen corrosion if it was going to happen.And I have not.

Whats to read here?

Are we talking about the salt water dunk test,or as I call it the salt water emulsification/solubility test that was done by a couple members here? This test is just not something that I would base my selection on. Also,as I have seen first hand in my repeat of the test, all the product coated substrates fail rather fast with this test which leads me to the conclusion its just too harsh. Some do better than others but the test is just too difficult to repeat back to back. A product does well in one test and fails in the next. Which leads me to believe the procedure is flawed.Heck whats next battery acid?

Who uses a salt water soak test that runs for hours like this? Ive never read an ASTM test like this. I believe the mil-spec requirement that describes the dunk test describes it as,well a dunk in salt water and allowed to dry before live fire. Correct me if Im wrong.



You mean you don't routinely store your cleaned weapon in a high humidity, salt spray cabinet? What are you, crazy?



Well I try not too.But those of us here in the south knows,the dew point routinely averages at the current temp of the day many months of the year.
Only salt water my weapons encounter is the drops of sweat rolling off my head,arms and hands in the summer months.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 2:57:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:

Originally Posted By jmart:


You mean you don't routinely store your cleaned weapon in a high humidity, salt spray cabinet? What are you, crazy?



ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! You are right! I wonder if our search for the perfect oil is really in vain. The gun will probibly last as long using cooking oil as a lube and protectant!



Yeah I came to that conclusion a couple years ago after studying and worrying myself crazy on the subject for a few years.PM is most important IMHO.Use a decent product and keep them maintained and I think you could get away with using just about anything.In fact I use to use Crisco on my black powder guns inside and out.Never an issue and that stuff is hygroscopic.
So yeah I think we all tend to go way over the line on this.I sure have.
But there are some oils out there that just plain suck as protectants.So its does pay to do some research and testing.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:40:14 PM EDT
I have used Shooter's Choice FP-10 on several of my guns for the last few years. In my experience, it is a better lubricant and cleaner than Break Free. BF may be a better corrosion inhibitor, however, based on some test results I've seen online. That said, none of my guns which were coated in FP-10 have developed any rust.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:59:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 12:07:46 PM EDT by Tack]

Originally Posted By Tempest45:
In my experience, FP-10 is good stuff. I have seen very few complaints about it on any board. My AR (along with other weapons) ran perfect with it as well.

The MD labs stuff is as of yet, unproven. I'd stick with the FP-10.

"What bothers me about the XF7 is the instructions to coat the bolt carrier and carrier race with synthetic motor oil"

This bothers me too. Should be a clue to something wrong if they are telling you to use another lube along with their own (especially as expensive as that stuff is).



Correction...MD Labs XF-7 is More than Proven. Read the website details at www.mdtactical.com. Go to the XF-7 link for all the details, and see the testimonials from the "Real World Bad Asses".

None of the CLP's (which FP-10 is one of) can hold a candle to XF-7. Period. I know because I have ued XF-7 for over a year, and it is far superior in protection and lubricity than SP-10 CLP, or any other CLP for that matter.

By the way, I have never used another lube in conjunction with XF-7, and have never noticed a recommendation to do so. It's not needed. The application instructions contained below don't suggest this either.

Here, read the safety sheet for yourselves from the web site:

MD Labs XF-7 is a truly water proof grease with extraordinary powers of lubrication and corrosion inhibition. Formulated specifically for use on modern weapons in adverse conditions of high temperature, fresh and salt water immersion, and high cyclic rates.

XF-7 provides continuous protection up to 500 degrees F, short term protection up to 600 degrees F and continuous protection from salt water and fresh water.

XF-7 will not run, drip or melt even when heated. Long after conventional oil or grease has melted and or boiled off, MD Labs XF-7 is still right where you put it, lubricating and protecting your weapon for corrosion.

MD Labs XF-7 has been undergoing exhaustive field trials in Iraq, Afghanistan , Arizona, and the Artic. All trials have met with overwhelming success. XF-7 works in the widest range of temperatures and climates of any weapon grade lubricant currently available.

XF-7 DOES NOT WASH OFF IN SALT WATER. Ideal for weapons used in marine environments.

XF-7 has been used with total success on AR15/M16/M4 type weapons, .50 cal M2 Browning, HK91, FAL, SKS, AK, 1911A1, Beretta 92/M9, SIG 226, Rem 700, Winchester Mod. 70, and numerous other weapon systems.

XF-7 contains no Telfon, so no hydrofluoric acid is created if it burns off, as happens with Teflon/PTEE lubes.

XF-7 if clear amber, non staining, non toxic, and O-ring friendly. XF-7 will not attack rubber or polymers. XF-7 will not damage common firearm's finishes or other metal finishes. XF-7 speed gun cleaning because it wont char or carbonize on metal surfaces. Most powder fouling wipes right off.


APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS:
XF-7 must be applied only over clean, dry metal for best results.

DO NOT apply over other lubricant residue or fouling, as this will keep the XF-7 from adhering properly to the metal substrate. Other lubes can be applied over XF-7, but they may adversely affect the adhesion and performance of the XF-7. Metal surfaces can be prepped for XF-7 application by washing in warm soap and water and then drying thoroughly, or by degreasing with chemical degreasers ( Acetone, MEK, etc.) that leave no residue behind. Use all appropriate solvent handling safety procedures.

Apply XF-7 by squeezing a small amount out of the syringe and onto the surface of the metal to be protected and lubricated.

Rub it in thoroughly with fingers, patch or brush.

Remove excess XF-7

When finished, you should have a viable but thin, uniform layer of XF-7 over the entire surface to be lubricated and protected.

A little goes a long way. XF-7 will not drip, run or melt.

Note: XF-7 can be used to prevent corrosion in the gun bores, but care must be taken to remove excess lubricant. Run a patch lightly coated with XF-7 through a clean bore once, breach from muzzle for best results. For best accuracy, run a dry patch through the bore prior to firing.

Remove XF-7 from metal, hands, or clothing by washing with soap and water. Note that XF-7 requires NO hazmat equipment to handle, apply, store or dispose.


Tack
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:16:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tack:

Originally Posted By Tempest45:
In my experience, FP-10 is good stuff. I have seen very few complaints about it on any board. My AR (along with other weapons) ran perfect with it as well.

The MD labs stuff is as of yet, unproven. I'd stick with the FP-10.

"What bothers me about the XF7 is the instructions to coat the bolt carrier and carrier race with synthetic motor oil"

This bothers me too. Should be a clue to something wrong if they are telling you to use another lube along with their own (especially as expensive as that stuff is).



Correction...MD Labs XF-7 is More than Proven. Read the website details at www.mdtactical.com. Go to the XF-7 link for all the details, and see the testimonials from the "Real World Bad Asses".

None of the CLP's (which FP-10 is one of) can hold a candle to XF-7. Period. I know because I have ued XF-7 for over a year, and it is far superior in protection and lubricity than SP-10 CLP, or any other CLP for that matter.

By the way, I have never used another lube in conjunction with XF-7, and have never noticed a recommendation to do so. It's not needed. The application instructions contained below don't suggest this either.

Here, read the safety sheet for yourselves from the web site:

MD Labs XF-7 is a truly water proof grease with extraordinary powers of lubrication and corrosion inhibition. Formulated specifically for use on modern weapons in adverse conditions of high temperature, fresh and salt water immersion, and high cyclic rates.

XF-7 provides continuous protection up to 500 degrees F, short term protection up to 600 degrees F and continuous protection from salt water and fresh water.

XF-7 will not run, drip or melt even when heated. Long after conventional oil or grease has melted and or boiled off, MD Labs XF-7 is still right where you put it, lubricating and protecting your weapon for corrosion.

MD Labs XF-7 has been undergoing exhaustive field trials in Iraq, Afghanistan , Arizona, and the Artic. All trials have met with overwhelming success. XF-7 works in the widest range of temperatures and climates of any weapon grade lubricant currently available.

XF-7 DOES NOT WASH OFF IN SALT WATER. Ideal for weapons used in marine environments.

XF-7 has been used with total success on AR15/M16/M4 type weapons, .50 cal M2 Browning, HK91, FAL, SKS, AK, 1911A1, Beretta 92/M9, SIG 226, Rem 700, Winchester Mod. 70, and numerous other weapon systems.

XF-7 contains no Telfon, so no hydrofluoric acid is created if it burns off, as happens with Teflon/PTEE lubes.

XF-7 if clear amber, non staining, non toxic, and O-ring friendly. XF-7 will not attack rubber or polymers. XF-7 will not damage common firearm's finishes or other metal finishes. XF-7 speed gun cleaning because it wont char or carbonize on metal surfaces. Most powder fouling wipes right off.


APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS:
XF-7 must be applied only over clean, dry metal for best results.

DO NOT apply over other lubricant residue or fouling, as this will keep the XF-7 from adhering properly to the metal substrate. Other lubes can be applied over XF-7, but they may adversely affect the adhesion and performance of the XF-7. Metal surfaces can be prepped for XF-7 application by washing in warm soap and water and then drying thoroughly, or by degreasing with chemical degreasers ( Acetone, MEK, etc.) that leave no residue behind. Use all appropriate solvent handling safety procedures.

Apply XF-7 by squeezing a small amount out of the syringe and onto the surface of the metal to be protected and lubricated.

Rub it in thoroughly with fingers, patch or brush.

Remove excess XF-7

When finished, you should have a viable but thin, uniform layer of XF-7 over the entire surface to be lubricated and protected.

A little goes a long way. XF-7 will not drip, run or melt.

Note: XF-7 can be used to prevent corrosion in the gun bores, but care must be taken to remove excess lubricant. Run a patch lightly coated with XF-7 through a clean bore once, breach from muzzle for best results. For best accuracy, run a dry patch through the bore prior to firing.

Remove XF-7 from metal, hands, or clothing by washing with soap and water. Note that XF-7 requires NO hazmat equipment to handle, apply, store or dispose.


Tack



This stuff sounds just like Slide Glide that Brian Enos sells.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:12:08 PM EDT
The stuff about XF-7 is dandy and all but how do we really know if it is any better then the next lube? Every single one of these lubes claims they are the best(FP-10 and Militec really pour on the hype) and we have found the hype to be full of holes and is pure crap!

XF-7 sounds just like another hyped product. Untill I see acctuall military testing at the Aberdeen prooving grounds or something similer like SLIP 2000 has shown it is all useless hype.

Mad Dog has been know to make false claims about their knives and I don't trust them.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:49:06 PM EDT
I've been using FP10 on all of my stuff for the last ten years with absolutely no corrosion problems. As a lubricant, it has always impressed me. However, I would never consider using it as a cleaner. I used to use Hoppes for all my cleaning, but switched to MPro-7 a few years ago and have never looked back.



Tedster
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 5:49:28 PM EDT
Correction to you dude they do say to coat the bolt carrier in Mobil 1 or similar oil. What kind of great shit is this if they recommend motor oil not their product on another part of the bolt group????
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 6:01:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 6:03:10 PM EDT by GUNGUY1911]

Originally Posted By Tack:


Correction...MD Labs XF-7 is More than Proven. Read the website details at www.mdtactical.com. Go to the XF-7 link for all the details, and see the testimonials from the "Real World Bad Asses".

None of the CLP's (which FP-10 is one of) can hold a candle to XF-7. Period. I know because I have ued XF-7 for over a year, and it is far superior in protection and lubricity than SP-10 CLP, or any other CLP for that matter.

By the way, I have never used another lube in conjunction with XF-7, and have never noticed a recommendation to do so. It's not needed. The application instructions contained below don't suggest this either.

Here, read the safety sheet for yourselves from the web site:

MD Labs XF-7 is a truly water proof grease with extraordinary powers of lubrication and corrosion inhibition. Formulated specifically for use on modern weapons in adverse conditions of high temperature, fresh and salt water immersion, and high cyclic rates.

XF-7 provides continuous protection up to 500 degrees F, short term protection up to 600 degrees F and continuous protection from salt water and fresh water.

XF-7 will not run, drip or melt even when heated. Long after conventional oil or grease has melted and or boiled off, MD Labs XF-7 is still right where you put it, lubricating and protecting your weapon for corrosion.

MD Labs XF-7 has been undergoing exhaustive field trials in Iraq, Afghanistan , Arizona, and the Artic. All trials have met with overwhelming success. XF-7 works in the widest range of temperatures and climates of any weapon grade lubricant currently available.

XF-7 DOES NOT WASH OFF IN SALT WATER. Ideal for weapons used in marine environments.

XF-7 has been used with total success on AR15/M16/M4 type weapons, .50 cal M2 Browning, HK91, FAL, SKS, AK, 1911A1, Beretta 92/M9, SIG 226, Rem 700, Winchester Mod. 70, and numerous other weapon systems.

XF-7 contains no Telfon, so no hydrofluoric acid is created if it burns off, as happens with Teflon/PTEE lubes.

XF-7 if clear amber, non staining, non toxic, and O-ring friendly. XF-7 will not attack rubber or polymers. XF-7 will not damage common firearm's finishes or other metal finishes. XF-7 speed gun cleaning because it wont char or carbonize on metal surfaces. Most powder fouling wipes right off.


APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS:
XF-7 must be applied only over clean, dry metal for best results.

DO NOT apply over other lubricant residue or fouling, as this will keep the XF-7 from adhering properly to the metal substrate. Other lubes can be applied over XF-7, but they may adversely affect the adhesion and performance of the XF-7. Metal surfaces can be prepped for XF-7 application by washing in warm soap and water and then drying thoroughly, or by degreasing with chemical degreasers ( Acetone, MEK, etc.) that leave no residue behind. Use all appropriate solvent handling safety procedures.

Apply XF-7 by squeezing a small amount out of the syringe and onto the surface of the metal to be protected and lubricated.

Rub it in thoroughly with fingers, patch or brush.

Remove excess XF-7

When finished, you should have a viable but thin, uniform layer of XF-7 over the entire surface to be lubricated and protected.

A little goes a long way. XF-7 will not drip, run or melt.

Note: XF-7 can be used to prevent corrosion in the gun bores, but care must be taken to remove excess lubricant. Run a patch lightly coated with XF-7 through a clean bore once, breach from muzzle for best results. For best accuracy, run a dry patch through the bore prior to firing.

Remove XF-7 from metal, hands, or clothing by washing with soap and water. Note that XF-7 requires NO hazmat equipment to handle, apply, store or dispose.


Tack

I think that I would rather see independent unbiased reports, rather than info taken from the producers own website/forum. I mean really, if I set up a website and got a bunch of people to give testimony that Gunguy1911's Deep Root Love Gravy was the greatest CLP on the planet, how many gallons will you order? No, seriously, I really need and idea as to how much, cause it takes a while to produce!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:56:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
The stuff about XF-7 is dandy and all but how do we really know if it is any better then the next lube? Every single one of these lubes claims they are the best(FP-10 and Militec really pour on the hype) and we have found the hype to be full of holes and is pure crap!

XF-7 sounds just like another hyped product. Untill I see acctuall military testing at the Aberdeen prooving grounds or something similer like SLIP 2000 has shown it is all useless hype.

Mad Dog has been know to make false claims about their knives and I don't trust them.



+1

I think a few vendors even tried to use the fact they got issued a NSN by DLA as being "mil-spec". You can get chocolate chip cookies assigned a NSN but that doesn't mean it meets the requirements of a specific spec.

A grease cannot be a CLP unless the grease can somehow clean as well as lubricate and protect. Most dedicated lubes can only lube or protect but not clean. I know it sounds silly, but it cannot meet CLP (Cleaner, Lubricant, Protectant) requirements unless it does all 3

I'd be willing to get a dedicated cleaner and then use BF CLP for a follow up. BF CLP is the only CLP that's certified for use in extreme desert conditions.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 9:39:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.



They have a very good demo at SHOT2006. Using a scale, lever and a grinding wheel they werre sable to compare how well different products lubricated.

They were able to stop the wheel from spinning with only 10# pressure on the lever when lubed with CLP. With FP-10 even 30# of pressure did not stop the wheel. Even after wiping off the FP-10 it took 25# to stop the wheel.

FP-10 sucks as a cleaner or preservative. but its a better lube than Breakfree CLP.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 9:52:10 AM EDT
I thought FP-10 was all hype a few years ago.

Then I heard Ed Brown recommend it.

Ed's a straight shooter in My opinion so I tried some.

It smoothes up my tightly fitted 1911 match guns better than anything else.

I can't speak of the corrosion or cleaning properties, but as a gun oil, it's great stuff.

Link Posted: 2/18/2006 10:50:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.



They have a very good demo at SHOT2006. Using a scale, lever and a grinding wheel they werre sable to compare how well different products lubricated.

They were able to stop the wheel from spinning with only 10# pressure on the lever when lubed with CLP. With FP-10 even 30# of pressure did not stop the wheel. Even after wiping off the FP-10 it took 25# to stop the wheel.

FP-10 sucks as a cleaner or preservative. but its a better lube than Breakfree CLP.



BreakFree CLP isn't the best cleaner or lube, but its rust protection capabilities are pretty good.
FP-10 and Militec-1 both are fairly good lubrication qualities, partially due to the chlorinated paraffins they use that provides that "slickness".

Militec claims it does not contain chlorinated parrafins but from their MSDS:

"Hazardous Decomposition or Byproducts
When burning, may form carbon monoxide (Typical of organic lubricants) and hydrogen chloride"

AND

"Specific Gravity (H2O=1)/25°C
1.142"


From there MSDS sheet
both density and Hydo Chlorine = chlorinated parrifin, ester or fat.



One source of the interpretation: forums.noria.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/6551015821
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:35:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.



They have a very good demo at SHOT2006. Using a scale, lever and a grinding wheel they werre sable to compare how well different products lubricated.

They were able to stop the wheel from spinning with only 10# pressure on the lever when lubed with CLP. With FP-10 even 30# of pressure did not stop the wheel. Even after wiping off the FP-10 it took 25# to stop the wheel.

FP-10 sucks as a cleaner or preservative. but its a better lube than Breakfree CLP.



BreakFree CLP isn't the best cleaner or lube, but its rust protection capabilities are pretty good.
FP-10 and Militec-1 both are fairly good lubrication qualities, partially due to the chlorinated paraffins they use that provides that "slickness".

Militec claims it does not contain chlorinated parrafins but from their MSDS:

"Hazardous Decomposition or Byproducts
When burning, may form carbon monoxide (Typical of organic lubricants) and hydrogen chloride"

AND

"Specific Gravity (H2O=1)/25°C
1.142"


From there MSDS sheet
both density and Hydo Chlorine = chlorinated parrifin, ester or fat.



One source of the interpretation: forums.noria.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/616604995/m/6551015821



The MSDS also shows the acid content of Militec.Thats another clue about its halogen percentage.
From my understanding the M-1 is a chlorinated alpha olefin.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:04:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 7:14:03 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By Derek45:
I thought FP-10 was all hype a few years ago.

Then I heard Ed Brown recommend it.

Ed's a straight shooter in My opinion so I tried some.

It smoothes up my tightly fitted 1911 match guns better than anything else.

I can't speak of the corrosion or cleaning properties, but as a gun oil, it's great stuff.




FP-10 is also Kimbers recommeded oil.At least it was the last time I checked,for what thats worth..
I still say FP-10 is one of the best.
Ive used a couple gallons of the FP-10 since 2002 and have yet to see any corrosion on my weapons.That includes extended stays outdoors hunting and shooting...and I live in the humid south.
It is a bit slow cleaning as I stated before,but does get the job done.
As a lube its in the top five in my book.Sure runs extremely well for me.
But thats my opinion and Im not alone in that thinking.
Go here and do a search on FP-10:
forums.1911forum.com/
You will find that there's a bunch of folks that do not think FP-10 is hype.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:49:15 AM EDT
Go to Glocktalk and you will find that they LOVE Militec-1.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:37:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 2:53:47 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Go to Glocktalk and you will find that they LOVE Militec-1.




I frequent GT daily and I dont love it at all.There's some FP-10 folks there too.
There's a few folks on the Berettaforum.net who love the M-1...again I aint one of them there either.

edit to add:
From what Ive seen in both forums there's more reference to Break Free than anything else.Hit results using search engines on those forums give several pages of reading.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:16:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
FP-10 is mostly hype and not all it is cracked up to be. You can read up about it here.



They have a very good demo at SHOT2006. Using a scale, lever and a grinding wheel they werre sable to compare how well different products lubricated.

They were able to stop the wheel from spinning with only 10# pressure on the lever when lubed with CLP. With FP-10 even 30# of pressure did not stop the wheel. Even after wiping off the FP-10 it took 25# to stop the wheel.

FP-10 sucks as a cleaner or preservative. but its a better lube than Breakfree CLP.



Clorine bleach will do well on that test. It's not really a very good one for showing how well a lube works. It only tests one specific thing, the surface strength or something like that.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:45:10 PM EDT
I've been using it in ARs for a few years and it's as good as any other CLP I've tried.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:11:44 AM EDT
Everybody on the jimJones forum likes kool-Aide better.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:27:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:45:27 PM EDT
One thing I've heard about the FP-10 is that it doesn't attract dust as much as other products that contain teflon, such as BF CLP. Haven't tried the FP-10 yet myself, but have heard this claim many times.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:50:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brass_Belcher:
One thing I've heard about the FP-10 is that it doesn't attract dust as much as other products that contain teflon, such as BF CLP. Haven't tried the FP-10 yet myself, but have heard this claim many times.



I never noticed any difference no mtter what oil or grease I have used and dust collection.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:09:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:

Originally Posted By Brass_Belcher:
One thing I've heard about the FP-10 is that it doesn't attract dust as much as other products that contain teflon, such as BF CLP. Haven't tried the FP-10 yet myself, but have heard this claim many times.



I never noticed any difference no mtter what oil or grease I have used and dust collection.



+1

Even water will attract dust/sand/dirt. Ever noticed what happens when you get out of the ocean and step onto the beach? Sand sticks to you.

The dry film stuff won't attract sand/dirt/dust/grit because its dry (the finish on USGI mags for instance).
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:42:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
+1

Even water will attract dust/sand/dirt. Ever noticed what happens when you get out of the ocean and step onto the beach? Sand sticks to you.

The dry film stuff won't attract sand/dirt/dust/grit because its dry (the finish on USGI mags for instance).



Incredible findings there. Just because it's dry doesn't mean it won't attract dust. There's a huge difference with different car waxes and their tendancy to attract dust particles. FP-10 supposedly affects polarity on the metal, and so doesn't draw dust to it as much.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:14:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 10:15:47 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Brass_Belcher:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
+1

Even water will attract dust/sand/dirt. Ever noticed what happens when you get out of the ocean and step onto the beach? Sand sticks to you.

The dry film stuff won't attract sand/dirt/dust/grit because its dry (the finish on USGI mags for instance).



Incredible findings there. Just because it's dry doesn't mean it won't attract dust. There's a huge difference with different car waxes and their tendancy to attract dust particles. FP-10 supposedly affects polarity on the metal, and so doesn't draw dust to it as much.



FP-10 isn't one of those materials. I was waiting for someone to cite the car wax that supposedly repels dirt/dust. I applied some FP-10 to one of my engine pulleys that is notorious for attracting dust/dirt. FP-10 did absolutely nothing to "repel" it.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:41:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brass_Belcher:
. FP-10 supposedly affects polarity on the metal, and so doesn't draw dust to it as much.



This is exactly why I feel FP-10 is nothing but hype. This statment is on their website or something close to that. I'm sure on Star Trek they have oils that can change steels polarity/magntisim but here on Earth that is pure bullshit!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:00:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 9:32:16 PM EDT by Blankwaffe98]

Well do a little research on chlorinated alpha olefins,paraffins or as some call them plasticizer oils,to see how it all works.Then take that and research a bit of chemistry to include some organic,and read Faraday's Law.
The technology using chlorinated oils and thier performance aspects is not new either,as it has been around for many moons.Pretty much fact not fiction.
The claims of repelling dust and surface charge...well its technically true.The halogen reacts with the steel to create the polymer like film,or cage as some call it,on the surface...in the process there is a positive charge placed on the surface.Its a result of the reaction taking place.
Does it work like a force field or like trying to stick two magnets of the same charge together(objects of the same charge repell each other)?
No its not that effective.It is enough to not allow air bourne positive/static charged particles to attach or cake on the surface.Its not permanent but works until its exhausted as goes the EP lube aspects as well.Another key factor is that the oil film must not be heavy as it will trap and hold the dust etc. in the base oil.The EP polymer like film retains the base oil that allows it to function.Dry film,well not really there is oil base there in the structure.
How well does it work...well I have no idea I do not have issues with dust and my PM routine is pretty strict.
As for the technical papers offered by MPC sometime back...well they were pretty easy to research since they listed the documented technical references at the bottom of each page.
Hype...well I guess that depends on the reader.
Im not a chemist,Lubrication Engineer,nor have I ever been involved in the manufacturing or sales of such products.But the proof is in the books if you look.
Sure MPC has done some horn blowing in the past marketing the FP-10.Name me one gun oil manufacturer that has not....but they are also the only folks I have found who have discussed the technology openly and in somewhat detail.Both good and bad.Maybe they discussed too much giving some folks a bad taste in thier mouth.Personally I appreciated the information.
I could careless if anyone uses FP-10 or not.Im not making any money on it...heck I dont even use FP-10 anymore due to the fact I found something I like better.But FP-10 is a good product and I have nothing bad to say about it after over three years of extensive use.Is it the best around?
Nope,but it is one of the best.
You guys kill me.
This topic is old,tired and Im done.Have at it fella's.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:20:54 AM EDT
Blankwaffe your know your stuff!

This might be true on paper and all but I still think it is BS in real life. I used FP-10 for a couple years almost on a daily basis and it did nothing like the above.......it just does not work that way on guns in the field. It was/is a good lube but I dispise how they market the stuff......major hype backed by more hype and few real world facts that you can acctually see and feel working compaired to other lubes. The best example is their rust test they performed. It blew away Breakfree and all others. We know that is totally false, Break Free if far superior to FP-10 in the rust protection dept. I would use and probibly will use Fp-10 again but not till they lay off a little on the BS advertising.

P.S. Militec 1 is even worse them Fp-10 in the advertising market!

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:24:27 PM EDT
Since George Left (sold his share) the company, fp-10 has toned down the webpage.

mpc-home
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:18:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Since George Left (sold his share) the company, fp-10 has toned down the webpage.

mpc-home



Yeap.
They dropped the old FP-10 site completely sometime ago.
Relocated the manufacturing plant as well.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:17:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
Blankwaffe your know your stuff!

This might be true on paper and all but I still think it is BS in real life. I used FP-10 for a couple years almost on a daily basis and it did nothing like the above.......it just does not work that way on guns in the field. It was/is a good lube but I dispise how they market the stuff......major hype backed by more hype and few real world facts that you can acctually see and feel working compaired to other lubes. The best example is their rust test they performed. It blew away Breakfree and all others. We know that is totally false, Break Free if far superior to FP-10 in the rust protection dept. I would use and probibly will use Fp-10 again but not till they lay off a little on the BS advertising.

P.S. Militec 1 is even worse them Fp-10 in the advertising market!




No I would not say I know my stuff at all.Im just one of those folks who like to research and read.Just enough to become dangerous really.
Ive spent hundreds of hours over the last few years digging through all the internet gun oil crap.Four note books full of notes and I still cant get a straight answer to some of my questions.Not to mention long phone calls with manufacturers asking questions and requesting documents.Of all the folks I dealt with in that respect,only a few have been willing to get technical or to answer my questions,much less take the time to do it.MPC and Mil-comm bend over backwards to answer questions and supply documents.Don Yoder at Break Free is an oustanding fella to talk with too...Ive probably drove that poor man nuts.
To tell you the trueth Im burned out with it all.My ultimate gun oil search only led me to what floats my boat.None of them are perfect.You just have to find what works for you.
So what I did was find a few I like and be happy.
That is Break Free,Ballistol,FP-10 and most of all Mil-comm.
Im not looking any further than that.Enough is enough and so is talking about it on the internet.Im better off spending my time at the range rather than sitting at this key board.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:15:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 11:16:38 PM EDT by SkagSig40]

Originally Posted By Blankwaffe98:

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:
Blankwaffe your know your stuff!

This might be true on paper and all but I still think it is BS in real life. I used FP-10 for a couple years almost on a daily basis and it did nothing like the above.......it just does not work that way on guns in the field. It was/is a good lube but I dispise how they market the stuff......major hype backed by more hype and few real world facts that you can acctually see and feel working compaired to other lubes. The best example is their rust test they performed. It blew away Breakfree and all others. We know that is totally false, Break Free if far superior to FP-10 in the rust protection dept. I would use and probibly will use Fp-10 again but not till they lay off a little on the BS advertising.

P.S. Militec 1 is even worse them Fp-10 in the advertising market!




No I would not say I know my stuff at all.Im just one of those folks who like to research and read.Just enough to become dangerous really.
Ive spent hundreds of hours over the last few years digging through all the internet gun oil crap.Four note books full of notes and I still cant get a straight answer to some of my questions.Not to mention long phone calls with manufacturers asking questions and requesting documents.Of all the folks I dealt with in that respect,only a few have been willing to get technical or to answer my questions,much less take the time to do it.MPC and Mil-comm bend over backwards to answer questions and supply documents.Don Yoder at Break Free is an oustanding fella to talk with too...Ive probably drove that poor man nuts.
To tell you the trueth Im burned out with it all.My ultimate gun oil search only led me to what floats my boat.None of them are perfect.You just have to find what works for you.
So what I did was find a few I like and be happy.
That is Break Free,Ballistol,FP-10 and most of all Mil-comm.
Im not looking any further than that.Enough is enough and so is talking about it on the internet.Im better off spending my time at the range rather than sitting at this key board.



I know how you feel! I can't help but wonder if I just look around one more corner the perfect oil will be there but I know it won't!
What were your findings on SLIP 2000? The owner was pretty nice to me on the phone and returned my calls. I forgot to ask him what his thoughts were on gun grease sence Slip 2000 does not offer one. I'll call him next week and ask....IIRC his name was Greg.


P.S. I'll have to go check out FP-10 new website. I did not know they got rid of the old one....that is a good thing indeed!!!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 1:47:21 AM EDT
Yeah there is alot of anticipation looking at gun oils.At least it was for me.Thing is its just not worth the effort anymore,and I just do not think there is any new technology available to improve what we have already.New labels are just new labels.I think that most everyone has thier own favorite lube.
In the end I think preventive maintenace is the most important factor,particularly in the area of corrosion.But having a good long lasting lube helps with the wear and tear and keeps things running smooth.Thats why I praise FP-10 and Mil-comm so...I like them overall.
As for the Slip...yeah Ive talked with Greg a few times and he's a darn nice fella.I tried the Mil-X and the regular Slip2000 CLP.They both worked pretty darn well,but I could see no advantage the Slip offered over Break Free.Both are about the same IMHO.So considering performance and price difference I prefer Break Free.Plus Break Free is available everywhere locally so the shipping cost is not added.But thats my opinion.
Yeah MPC/FP-10 has taken a turn with the new owners.For the better it seems in every respect.Seems the folks there have got very serious about the business.I talked with the new owner,Sharon,a few months ago and she is very serious.
The internet chatter was stopped cold about a year ago as the new owners saw it as negative draw...or at least thats what I was told.MPC cut off the FP-10 forum and dropped the old FP-10 web site.George Fennell seems to have vanished completely.

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:58:24 PM EDT
I'll hit FP-10 new site as soon as I get a little extra reading time. Thanks for the good info!
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