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Posted: 11/20/2003 9:46:28 AM EDT
This is probably a stupid question, but no one has ever been able to give me a straight answer.
I have an SP1 sporter, and when I clean it the cam pin will not clear the gas tube, it is "trapped". I cannot take the bolt out of the bolt carrier.
That was regular maintenance on an M16. It's hard for me to imagine they would do that on purpose for civilian models.
Has anyone heard of this? What's the solution?
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 11:43:49 AM EDT
I guess I should have said the cam pin won't clear the bolt carrier key, or at least that is what they call it in the exploded views I've seen.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:18:41 PM EDT
First remove the firing pin retainer, then remove the firing pin...now push the bolt rearward and rotate the cam pin 90* and it should come right out.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:18:44 PM EDT
OK put the beer down and step away from the gun. LOL.. J/K . Very simple commradd . Pull the pin that looks like a cotter pin sticking through the side of the bolt carrier out.It should look spread out.Its suppose to. Don't try to bend or squeeze it back straight.You might have to get a hold on it with a small nail tip, bullet tip, small screw drive to get it started out .Just pull it out by your fingers. Now turn your bolt carrier up and shake your fireing pin out.Now you can grab your cam pin and turn it so it lines up to clear the gas key and simply pull it out. I do believe it will only fit one way while re installing it. Just simply look at where your extractor is and that should put you back on track. Your extractor should be on the ejection port side .Just think about it and youll get the picture. Also you can take the extractor off by applying presure at the rear of the extractor and pushing on the pin that holds it on with the tip of your firing pin. Doing this lightly will not hurt your fireing pin.But you can use anything else to do it if not comfortable with it.Now your bolt is completely stripped. Leave the extractor spring inplace. Don't take it off its holder. No need to..Best of luck to ya and hope I didn't blunder the instructions and or c=onfused you. Its really simple once you have done it. WarDawg
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:28:07 PM EDT
It should come out of there, just grab it with a pair of pliers (gently!) and pull it out.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:35:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 12:42:35 PM EDT by CADman]
I KNOW!!! That's the same wall I keep running into. I was in the service for 8 years, I know an M16 like I know my own hand. I'm telling you... It (the cam pin) will not come out. This is the first AR I've owned, and I just wanted to be sure that the civilian model wasn't different for some strange reason. I'm going to assume from your responses that it isn't normal. Do you think that this is something that Colt might be willing to look at? Does anyone have any ideas? It's hard for me to imagine that Colt would install the carrier key with the bolt already in place, but that is the only thing I can imagine. The cam pin won't come out, I sure don't know how they got it in. The gun is like new, all factory. It's just maddening. When the firing pin is out, the bolt is seated in the carrier, the cam pin is 90*, it will only come out maybe an eighth on an inch until it touches the carrier key. It's not just a tight fit or something, it will not clear.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 6:03:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 6:06:50 PM EDT by 199]
Gotta think you’re doing something wrong! Maybe these photos will help. The right most photo shows the cam pin half way removed. [image]photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=11633&iGalleryUnq=179&iImageUnq=19871[/image] Edited to add; maybe there's some sort of obstruction in the carrier that prevents the bolt from moving all the way to the rear??
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 5:11:01 AM EDT
Did you ever run into something that is just SO weird that no one actually believes you? I appreciate everyones comments- they would be good advice for someone who didn't know much about AR's/16's. I have carried an M-16 on four different continents. I have participated in (and won) blindfolded disassembly/reassembly contests. I have an EIB, CIB, Jump-wings...I was an E-6(p) when I ETS'd. I drew a bolt in AutoCAD (a computer drafting program) from memory just for shits and giggles. Much to my suprise, it was within a tenth of an inch when I checked mine with calipers. (Although, to be honest, I was one short on the lugs!) Anyway, I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything. I am just trying to re-enforce the fact that I am relatively well aquainted with the function and maitanence of these weapons. I'm also working on a mechanical engineering degree, and I am a professional draftsmen. I think I'm pretty mechanically inclined, I can usually figure "stuff" out! It's really irritating that (a)I can't figure it out myself (b)most gunsmiths I've found know little about them, and (c)when I find people who do know 16's, I don't have my weapon with me and I can't make them believe me! I think I just need to vent about it. On the bright side, I rarely get a chance to actually shoot the darn thing so it's not all that dirty anyway. At least 199 had a good idea. The pin is seated all the way back. Here's all I can figure. -The cam pin looks like it is within specs, so I've ruled that out. -The gas key looks a little heavy to me. There is more material on the bottom than I remember. That's what made me wonder if civilian 15's are different from 16's (at least with respect to disassembly as it pertains to this problem) -The slot in the carrier for the cam pin could be milled short (thanks again 199 for at least an original thought!) but it looks normal -Granted, either one of these presupposes that the bolt and pin were in place when the gas key was installed. That's what I really don't get. I can see an out of spec component making it out of a factory, happens all the time. But I can't imagine they would assemble and install concurrently. I've spent so much time, and I keep questioning myself... But it comes down to the fact that on my particular AR-15, I am unable to remove the cam pin, which in turn prevents me from separating the bolt and bolt carrier. There. I'm done venting. You can write me off as some crazy and/or stupid guy now.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:23:43 PM EDT
Keep in mind that a lot of questions asked here are from folks that are truly unfamiliar with AR’s. A while back a member complained of having a terrible time using stripper clips to load his AR magazines – turned out he wasn’t using a stripper clip guide!! More recently, a member asked how to avoid getting hit by the charging handle when firing his new AR!! (No offense to those members, though – we all had to learn sometime.) Anyway, maybe the gas key is missing or has an undersize cam pin relief cut (my term!) and the assembly monkey that put it together used a hammer to pop the cam pin into the hole. Just a guess, of course. The cut I’m referring to is shown in the below center and right photos. There is no cut on the opposite side of the gas key (left photo). [image]photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=11633&iGalleryUnq=179&iImageUnq=19907[/image] Anyway, to make an obvious point: it really sounds like something is out of spec!! If it’s under warrantee, you might want to send it back to Colt. Alternatively, you could pull the gas key, ID the bad part, and replace it. However, doing this correctly requires a torque wrench (in inch/pounds) for reassembly and, if it turns out that the bolt or carrier needs replacement, could be fairly expensive.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:27:40 PM EDT
could there possibly be a burr on either the cam pin or the cam pin hole that is interferring with the removal?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 5:12:33 PM EDT
Might be possible that the key is a bit loose and it has been pushed over to the side a bit, so that it now obstructs the cam pin? I would assume the keys are attached to the carriers at the factory long before a the bolt is inserted, since if you buy a carrier by itself, it will come with a key already attached. It is also possibly the guy at the factory just used a hammer to force the pin in. Does the cam pin seem loose enough that you could pull it out if the key didn't get in the way? Depending on how much the key obstructs, maybe you could get it out with a little gentle prying with a flathead screwdriver. If that doesn't work, you will have to remove the key and maybe get a new one with new screws and then restake it and hope that solves your problem. If this is a new rifle and you trust the customer service of the manufacturer, you could always send it back too, I guess. Feel your pain about being treated like a noob, but every so often one is reminded and amazed at how mechanically hopeless some people are, and it is tempting to assume the worse.
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