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Posted: 7/17/2003 10:29:13 PM EDT
Not just talking AR's, but all guns, so is has to be able to be put onto wood with no adverse effects. Where I work, we use Remoil, but it's also climate controlled, and my house is not. I use FP-10 currently, but want to use the best possible protectant, because with the amount of guns in my collection, some don't get shot regularly, therefore they are rarely stripped down and fully cleaned, just wiped down. So, what do you guys use?
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 10:33:52 PM EDT
How long will they not be in use? For extended storage, there's always cosmoline or vaseline...
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 10:46:46 PM EDT
Ummm, I like to fondle my guns (that just does not sound normal, or does it?), so anything very thick or that alters the weapons appearance (like car wax) is a no go.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 11:58:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2003 11:58:25 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Believe it or not, in the rainy season, Arizona is very humid, AND I have very acidic skin. I havent seen rust on any of my guns since I started whiping them down with [url=www.sentrysolutions.com]Sentry Solutions[/url] Tuff Cloth. It has no effect on wood.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:59:23 PM EDT
I'd have to say that the BEST protectant would have to be Corrosion X. I live in Hawaii where humidity and salt air is a way of life. Corrosion X gets the job done.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 8:50:33 PM EDT
I have had excellent luck with just Break Free clp in the past. I have been using FP-10 and TW-25B since the first of the year and have had excellent results. The TW-25B seems to last for months without reapplication. The FP-10 seems to need a fresh coat every month or so. I always check all my weapons at least once a month anyway so its not a issue for me.Im a maintenance freak anyway. If it looks dry I just wipe them down with a rag damp with FP-10. No rust so far here in the hot humid south. Raymond
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 9:08:35 PM EDT
If I had to wipe down my guns every month, I would have to quit both my jobs and perpetually wipe guns down, and not get much sleep. Website/info about for Corrosion X?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 9:58:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 10:09:27 PM EDT by JTinIN]
If you are not going to shoot much, do not forget to run an oiled patch through the bore (if it is chrome lined or stainless steel would still be a good idea but a little less important). What ever oil you use, you should be careful and not get a lot on the wood as will in the long run soak in and soften the fibers (now days some of the finishes are close to a total seal, but still only close) For ideas would recommend wandering through the Brownells catalog (in paper or on line at [url=http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j6hgyc0lix00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2F]Brownells[/url] Our family favorite for muzzle loaders and longer term storage of "new guns" (anything not using black powder), is [url=http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j6hgyc2tci00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Faspx%2Fgeneral%2FError404.aspx%3F404%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%3A80%2Faspx%2FNS%2Fstore%2FProductDetail.aspx?p=1124]Brownells Rust Peventive No 2[/url], which is a very thin liquid than leaves an oil film that becomes nearly dry with time, plus is not greasy or a thick wax film (plus to the best of my knowledge no Teflon to be burned in the bore). For short term storage can easily get away with the standard gun oils/CLP products (Break Free, Rem Oil, G96 etc.). For long term storage the thick film oils/grease/wax work well (i.e. [url=http://www.silencio.com/htfiles/chemicals.html]Rig[/url] or [url=http://www.lpslabs.com/Products/CorrosionInh/Lps3.asp]LPS3[/url] which is made for outdoor storage of steel etc.), however, all of these really need the gun to be cleaned before use/handling. In between these two limits are film type lubes that work if you are careful in their application. I have used Boeshield [url=http://boeshield.com/]Boeshiled T9[/url] which is a wax in solvent and [url=http://www.eezox.com/]Eezox [/url] which is a CLP and makes a nice thick film if you follow direction and do not flood with too much. For the most part I keep coming back to Break Free in the black guns and Rust Preventive No 2 for "gun surface oiling" of the rest. In the case of a spare barrels and parts, these get covered with LPS 3, wrapped and put away for years.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:02:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 10:14:44 PM EDT by jason_h]
[url]http://www.corrosionx.com/[/url] You can buy stuff off their website, I bought a can of their heavy duty stuff for a different use other than firearms, although I haven't had a chance to actually used it as of yet. From what I have read, they make a very good product when it comes to protecting against corrosion. Not sure if it would work very well as a lube though, and don't know if it is as thick as rig grease or cosmoline once it sets up some. A few years back, there were a number of tests run by different forum members comparing the corrosion protection properties of different commonly available lubes on the market. The tests included breakfree clp, tetra lubes, eezox (think that is the right spelling), WD-40, and bunch of others I can't think of right now. The tests were conducted on bare strips of steel and nails and then either left outside for a period of time or sprayed down with water and saltwater. From what I recollect, breakfree clp usually came out on top or close to on top as the best protectant, with eezox also be really good. The tetra and wilson combat lubes were really poor performers. This was before FP-10 and miltec-1 were on the market, so I can't comment on them directly, other than to mention that some other forum members feel they don't hold up as well as breakfree to corrosion. Edited to add to JTinIN comments, LPS make good products to. Had a can of their contact cleaner, which not only works great as a contact cleaner for electronics, but also as a very effective roach/cricket killer spray. A very small amount lays them out flat in seconds and there is no residue left behind to worry about like there is with RAID an other such products.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:11:55 PM EDT
Wow STANMAN,sounds like you have a bunch of toys. I have 30+ in storage and it takes me about five hours or so every month to inspect and reoil if needed. I always hit the bore's a lick regardless.Especially the mausers,Enfields and Mosin's. The other weapons,like my Beretta,AR15,cetme,sks's and a few select K.98K's are used almost every week so they stay in good shape. The TW-25B is one of the highest rated corrosion inhibitors I have found with over 500 hours salt spray without corrosion.Its high dollar though. Also look at Eezox as a long term corrosion inhibitor.I have heard great things about the stuff. Crufflerjj at Wins Workbench on Gunboards.com has some 100/100 humidity cabinet tests that he is doing.Eezox seems to be the best of what he has tested so far as long term protetction. Its some good information and well worth a read eitherway. Raymond
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:17:17 PM EDT
Another though would be to pick up some type of humidity control, at least someting along the lines of a golden rod (metal cased low temp "light bulb" type system that increases the temp a little inside the safe). Also could consider checking some of the Vapor Corrosion Inhibitors (good for metal ... maybe ok for stocks ... need to check).
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:28:36 PM EDT
Yeah the golden rod works great in a sealed safe and is worth using. Otherwise using something like a gun locker or cabinet will depend on the surrounding environment. If you keep the weapons in the house at a constant temperature and low humidity(air conditioned) I dont think the concerns are real great.At least I have never had a problem storing weapons in safe's,lockers,cabinets or even gun racks in the house but the air stays at a constant temp. and low humidity. But like I said I check them once a month at least to make sure a light film of whatever is still there. I keep the ammo nice and cool in ammo cans as well as inside the house. Raymond
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:36:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 10:50:16 PM EDT by jason_h]
Here is the link to the discussion referred to by Blankwaffe98. [url]http://www.gunboards.com/forums/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=28&TID=6042&SID=1585654[/url] Good stuff, if this is the same guy that runs the cruffler website, that guy deserves sainthood. Edited to add that if you are keeping your weapons in a safe, get a good sized desicant pack that has a some way of indicating when it needs to be put in the oven to be dried out again. If you keep the desicant pack dry and just use normal lube, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. For instance, I have a russian blued sks I that is sitting in my safe. When I last clean it, which was over a year ago, I applied a thin coat of breakfree clp to surface of all metal parts. Its been left alone ever since in the corner of my safe and there is no signs of corrosion. The desicant pack I use is fairly large relative to my safe. I generally have to put it in the oven once every month during the summer to dry it out, but during the winter it usually gains no moisture.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:53:53 PM EDT
Jason_h, You beat me to it.I went for the addy and bam you had it up. Jeff/Crufflerjj has a couple threads running on the topic.A past and recent test that covered several products with pics.Do a search on his name and start reading. Raymond
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 11:40:24 PM EDT
Found another comparison test: [url]http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-rust.html[/url]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:23:10 AM EDT
About 1989, I had occasion to coat over a half dozen long guns with Breakfree and leave them in a relatives’ attic in the midwest. I gave them a second coat of Breakfree about six years later. When I finally retrieved them about five years after that, they were totally rust free except for one that for some reason I had left in a soft case. The case had soaked some of the Breakfree, allowing a small amount of rusting to take place. I had left the others out in the open. FWIW Incidentally, in the above type situation, the attic was unheated and was well ventilated with the outside.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 6:52:44 PM EDT
After performing THE GUN ZONE test for myself I came up with the exact same results. EEZOX won hands down. Two weeks later (after all other products failed and total rust took hold of the nails) EEZOX was still like the first day. No product could be seen on the nail but it beaded the water away instantly and was then dry in appearance. I also finally gave up trying to rust the eezox nail. My local gun shop sells it so I use it almost exclusively.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 7:07:04 PM EDT
Anyone ever test Militec-1?
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 8:44:12 PM EDT
I have never seen EEZOX, is it wet, and dries on contact? Or does it stay wet, but even after it dries months later it is still good?
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 9:24:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2003 6:31:27 PM EDT by JTinIN]
EEZOX goes on wet (the directions talk about using it as a cleaner - CLP). Over time (minutes / hours) the solvents evaporate and leaves a wax like film. [blue]The film is a clear to very light straw yellow, depending on thickness. Looks fine on blued steel mags. (Edited to add comments on film color)[/blue] The thickness is dependent on the amount you put on, following label directions leaves a nice film which is stated to work after dry (have not run 85/85 humidty tests, so will leave it to others with first hand experence to cover the long term accelerate life performance).
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 9:54:28 AM EDT
Does it dry clear, or to a white film like wax?
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:10:27 PM EDT
CorrosionX is great stuff, probably the best out there. I use it on all my expensive saltwater fishing gear, none of my gear has a speck of rust/corrosion on it. If you do use corrosionX, remember, a little goes a looooong way. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 2:53:32 PM EDT
Is CorrosionX safe on wood?
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 4:43:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2003 4:45:31 PM EDT by hickboy]
I'm not sure, here is what it says on the back of the can... CorrosionX is a multi-functional product that stops and prevents rust or corrosion on and metal surface, is a superior lubricant and an unbelievable penetrant. Long-Term Corrosion Protection: CorrosionX is specially designed to displace moisture, stop rust and corrosion, and provide protection against rust and corrosion. Any metal surface that rusts or corrodes is a potential application. Contains no wax, tar, silicone or solids; Leaves no sticky, gummy mess behind and is exceptional in its ability to prevent electrolysis between dissimilar metals. It is ideal for treating electrical connections and equipment and will put and end to corrosion build up on switches, copper wires, battery terminals and circiut boards; and, in many cases, CorrosionX can revive equipment even after saltwater immersion! When treating electronic gear, avoid LCD's and membrane switches. Unsurpassed Penetrant: Penetrates and breaks down existing oxidation, gets to the base metal and allows quick, easy dismantling or corroded/rusted components. Spray it onto rusted nuts, bolts, or fittings... let it work for 15-20 minutes and usually, they can be redily removed. Incomparable Lubricant: CorrosionX operates effectively as a lubricant under high pressure loads and elevated temperatures. Even rusty chains will soon look like new and dirt will not accumulate. CorrosoinX increases efficiency and extends the useful life of machinery and its parts. Edited to say: I am not plugging this product, just giving info. to you. [:D]
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 8:08:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By STANMAN: Does it dry clear, or to a white film like wax?
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It dries clear and stays where you put it. Can't really tell it's there unless you use alot. It works well as a lube once fired also. Friction heats it up and your good to go. I love the stuff. If you just want it for protection let some sit in open air for a bit and it will thicken up(solvent portion evaporates)but not much. PS. With eezox on your guns they WILL NOT rust. I have tried believe me!
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 8:11:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By W-W: Anyone ever test Militec-1?
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Terrible as a corrosion preventative! The test I did had the Militec1 covered metal rusting within the first day. So did the metal without any products on it.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 9:19:05 PM EDT
So, where to get this wonderful EEZOX?
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 9:44:16 PM EDT
[url]www.eezox.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 4:34:03 AM EDT
I just paint all mine with Rustoleum. Is that wrong?
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 4:52:17 AM EDT
Do not forget to use a good primer, in partical inside the barrel (more wear there and hard to keep the paint on [;)]
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 9:37:30 AM EDT
I have been using "Tuf -Cloth" from Sentry Solutions. It's a dry "Moly" product in a volitile vehicle. Company claims "The Navy Seals use our products on all their stuff."
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 10:37:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/29/2003 10:42:32 AM EDT by JCraig]
Originally Posted By STANMAN: So, where to get this wonderful EEZOX?
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STANMAN I did a quick search and came up with these: [url]www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/warren_products.htm[/url] [url]www.johnfjensen.com[/url] [url]www.dandhfirearmaccessories.com/cleaning.htm[/url] JCraig [url]www.mcw-tech.com/TargetExpress[/url]
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 10:52:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JCraig:
Originally Posted By STANMAN: So, where to get this wonderful EEZOX?
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STANMAN I did a quick search and came up with these: [url]www.warrencustomoutdoor.com/warren_products.htm[/url] [url]www.johnfjensen.com[/url] [url]www.dandhfirearmaccessories.com/cleaning.htm[/url] JCraig [url]www.mcw-tech.com/TargetExpress[/url]
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Warrencustom is as good as any since they are basically from the Co. There is a dealer page on the EEZOX site as well. If none of your area gun dealers have it I would go there. Luckily my local GS here stocks it and that is how I got hooked up to it.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 1:24:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 199: [url]www.eezox.com/[/url]
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I bought it off that website.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 6:26:55 PM EDT
One other benefit of EEZOX is that it smells like no other gun product out there. In fact, it smells GOOD! Very GOOD! I don't know if this is a product of the chemistry combination in manufacture or on purpose but I actually like it considering the other products out there! Maybe I should give my girlfriend some for Xmas[naughty].....then I can enjoy my guns all the time[:D]
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 9:41:46 PM EDT
You are correct, it does have a nice smell to it. I still use FP-10 for a lube, but for the outside of my guns, I use EEZOX.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 12:35:21 PM EDT
Like Horik, I did the same test a few years ago, with what I had on hand. I wiped down about a dozen squares of bare steel with the products, glued them to a board, and sprayed a pretty concentrated saline solution on them every few days for about two weeks. The top three performed pretty closely, but they resisted rust until the very end. Eezox had the least rust spots, but there was some rust, maybe 10% of the surface. Break-Free (the "old" formula) was in a close second place, with about 15% rust. Johnson's Paste Wax was in third place, with about 20%. Everything else was 50% rusted or more, including Tetra oil, Hoppe's oil, ProTec, Ed's Red, motor oil, WD-40, and Rem-Oil. Castrol/Hoppe's "RustProtect" was the worst performer of the whole bunch, rusting in the first day.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 6:48:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By W-W: Anyone ever test Militec-1?
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---------- Yes, I am aware that a couple of museums use Militec-1 for preserving antique firearms. As well I use it on all my firearms, as well as my hedge clippers and even my chainsaw which are operated in very damp conditions, etc... with excellent results.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:27:06 PM EDT
James_Gang, you may want to re-think your strategy, as Militec-1 is generally considered one of the worst protectants out there. A very good lube, but in every test I have seen, it comes in last for protection.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:35:40 PM EDT
I have to agree with the above......Not to mention Militec1 does'nt even meet the Mil. Std. by far! Thats pretty bad. I have to say I would'nt use it for protection on anything of value. As a lube it's right up with the best but that is it's only strong point.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 5:05:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 5:22:13 AM EDT by James_Gang]
Thanks for the advice. The reason Militec doesn't meet the military standard is very simple, it doesn't contain a solvent. It doesn't pretend to perform this function like CLP. Seems the military standard of today is for a 3 in 1 type product. The problem is when you combine a lubricant and solvent, they both counteract the effects of the other. I prefer to use seperate products, as I find them much more effective. That's just my personal preference, especially since I field the AR-15, which needs careful lubrication first and foremost. The question was 'what do I use for long term storage'. Considering that all of my firearms are used or accessed regularly I suppose this is not a question I can answer, except to say as I did above that I use Militec to protect my chainsaw chain and hedge cutters here at the house. They are frequently wet from use. Neither has rust. If I was to store my firearms for long periods, example if burying in the back yard etc.... I would use neither Militec or CLP or any product of this type. There are much more effective preservatives on the market. A couple of these are regular old cosmoline and rig grease. As for the contentions, the Columbian military currently uses Militec exclusively, in the humid and damp jungles of South America. They report much better performance than CLP's. But then I suppose that depends what they want from their lubricant. There is no doubt that no product can perform cleaning, lubrication and presevative functions adequately by itself. I understand laboratory tests can sometimes be misleading. But you will not find one fleck of rust, etc... on any of my firearms, or tools. Nor have I ever experienced a malfunction since switching from CLP type products to Militec. And for me that's the bottom line. http://www.militec1.com/BerettaCollection.html
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 6:15:19 AM EDT
Thats one reason for Militec's not meeting Mil. Std. the other is listed on the Militec site as well. It failed the salt fog spray, etc. corrosion test. I do use Militec from time to time(since I had gotten some)on my Glock and it works good, as a lube, but the Glock will probably never rust anyway.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 8:08:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 8:12:27 AM EDT by James_Gang]
I'm not sure it failed. It wasn't 'as' effective as CLP and other products on untreated steel. So in that respect it failed. But think about it, what is the most important factor about your guns? I suppose it depends upon what you want. Me, I like premium lubrication from my weapons, so that I'm not laying dead with a malfunction while the enemy admires and takes my pretty and beautifully preserved weapon out of my cold, dead hands. Solvents and heavy preservatives render a lubricant less effective if mixed together. That's why I use seperate product instead of one that some sticky fingered bureaucrat in Washinton claims to do it all at once.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 9:04:33 AM EDT
Well I could'nt agree more actually! But there are products like fp10 that seem to do all of the above quite well. So does EEZOX. Militec claims to and then(on the website) shows proof it does not. A salt water corroded bolt will give you malfs. as well. Any lube should naturally be a protective IMO. As for the "C" in CLP's...Well that is a different matter. A good solvent will always counter a good lube so the two cancel eachother out in many respects. Luckily the vast majority of Military weapons of the M16 family are easily cleaned with CLP's. Believe me I am not trying to argue were all one happy family here(most of the time[:D]. Glad your here!!
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 11:24:01 AM EDT
If I had to bury my guns someplace or put them in a storage shed for months to years, you can bet that RIG or cosmolene would be the best bet. But for guns that I might have to grab and use, or at least not take to the range for a year at a time, I have found nothing much better than CLP for keeping rust away from them. Eezox turned in a good performance but when they are getting $6.00 for 4 oz I think I'd rather stick with my $5.00 / pint of CLP. As for solvents and lubricants being at cross purposes, I have to take something of an exception to this, at least where the AR-15 is concerned. CLP is pretty good about loosening and dissolving the crud that accumlates and slows things down. On more than one occasion I have shot an AR or other semi to the point it would consistently malfunction; a little squirt of CLP into the action would get it going again for another several hundred rounds. There may be lubricants out there that are marginally more effective, but for me the convenience of having a reasonably effective 3-in-one product for the majority of my guns is more important. I own many gun oils and greases, and I like the Tetra products especially, but I can live without them if I have plenty of CLP on hand.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 11:35:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ken_mays: If I had to bury my guns someplace or put them in a storage shed for months to years, you can bet that RIG or cosmolene would be the best bet. But for guns that I might have to grab and use, or at least not take to the range for a year at a time, I have found nothing much better than CLP for keeping rust away from them. Eezox turned in a good performance but when they are getting $6.00 for 4 oz I think I'd rather stick with my $5.00 / pint of CLP. As for solvents and lubricants being at cross purposes, I have to take something of an exception to this, at least where the AR-15 is concerned. CLP is pretty good about loosening and dissolving the crud that accumlates and slows things down. On more than one occasion I have shot an AR or other semi to the point it would consistently malfunction; a little squirt of CLP into the action would get it going again for another several hundred rounds. There may be lubricants out there that are marginally more effective, but for me the convenience of having a reasonably effective 3-in-one product for the majority of my guns is more important. I own many gun oils and greases, and I like the Tetra products especially, but I can live without them if I have plenty of CLP on hand.
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I feel the same way exactly! But about EEZOX. I pay $6 and change for 7 ounces here!! I like BF as well and to me both clean an AR as well as anything. Solvents alone(for cleaning) are fine but I'd go for a copper cleaner on occasion instead and then still use my BF or EEZOX for the real cleaning. With AR's, especially chromed ones, it does'nt take much to get 'em spick and span!
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 7:42:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2003 7:59:09 PM EDT by James_Gang]
Originally Posted By Horik:
Originally Posted By ken_mays: If I had to bury my guns someplace or put them in a storage shed for months to years, you can bet that RIG or cosmolene would be the best bet. But for guns that I might have to grab and use, or at least not take to the range for a year at a time, I have found nothing much better than CLP for keeping rust away from them. Eezox turned in a good performance but when they are getting $6.00 for 4 oz I think I'd rather stick with my $5.00 / pint of CLP. As for solvents and lubricants being at cross purposes, I have to take something of an exception to this, at least where the AR-15 is concerned. CLP is pretty good about loosening and dissolving the crud that accumlates and slows things down. On more than one occasion I have shot an AR or other semi to the point it would consistently malfunction; a little squirt of CLP into the action would get it going again for another several hundred rounds. There may be lubricants out there that are marginally more effective, but for me the convenience of having a reasonably effective 3-in-one product for the majority of my guns is more important. I own many gun oils and greases, and I like the Tetra products especially, but I can live without them if I have plenty of CLP on hand.
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I feel the same way exactly! But about EEZOX. I pay $6 and change for 7 ounces here!! I like BF as well and to me both clean an AR as well as anything. Solvents alone(for cleaning) are fine but I'd go for a copper cleaner on occasion instead and then still use my BF or EEZOX for the real cleaning. With AR's, especially chromed ones, it does'nt take much to get 'em spick and span!
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------- Well I suppose everyone has their own personal preferences based upon their own experience. I used to use CLP and other products and had malfunctions routinely, but especially when my gun had sit for a few weeks or more. Since switching to Militec a couple of years ago, I haven't had a malfunction since, no matter how long the gun sits unused. Seems CLP dries off rather quickly, due to its solvent content and then offers little or no lubrication. It also attracts dust and dirt. As for the preservative, if I decide to bury my M-4 in the backyard, which is doubtful, I'll use a rig or cosmoline type product made for this purpose and a sturdy plastic bag or sealed container. Not a CLP, Militec, or Eezox...etc... alone. It might also help for you to understand a few years back I was a long haul truck driver and had a load to pick up in Canada. Since handguns are a no no, I had to bury my Glock 23 in the snow for 2 days near Detroit Michigan with a liberal coating of CLP wrapped inside a plastic grocery bag. I still had rust on the extractor when I returned to retrieve the weapon. So the bottom line for me is when I want a preservative, I choose a preservative, when I want a solvent I use a solvent, when I need a lubricant, I pull out the bottle of Militec. It's never let me down. If you click the link below you'll see the experiences of our troops in Iraq. Scroll down the page carefully to the part concerning lubricants. Along with my own personal experience in the Marines, that's all the convincing I need. Small Arms and Individual Equipment Lessons Learned [url]http://www.sftt.org/article06102003a.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 10:32:55 PM EDT
[b]James_Gang[/b] Very interesting link. However, I would approach this info with a bit of caution based on the below quote from this article:
...There is also a significant safety issue that bears further investigation. Apparently when the M4 selector is in the "Safe" position and the bolt is allowed to ride forward, the firing pin still makes contact with the bullet primer. A CSM in the 101st related a story of a soldier who had an accidental discharge while his weapon was in the safe position - the CSM personally witnessed this incident. Numerous soldiers showed us bullets in their magazines that had small dents in the primer. There may be a "Safety of Use" message out on this issue but it is not well known at the battalion-and-below level....
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Link Posted: 8/16/2003 5:13:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 199: [b]James_Gang[/b] Very interesting link. However, I would approach this info with a bit of caution based on the below quote from this article:
...There is also a significant safety issue that bears further investigation. Apparently when the M4 selector is in the "Safe" position and the bolt is allowed to ride forward, the firing pin still makes contact with the bullet primer. A CSM in the 101st related a story of a soldier who had an accidental discharge while his weapon was in the safe position - the CSM personally witnessed this incident. Numerous soldiers showed us bullets in their magazines that had small dents in the primer. There may be a "Safety of Use" message out on this issue but it is not well known at the battalion-and-below level....
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----------- Hum, I'm not sure I understand the point 199. It is well known that with a lack of a firing pin spring these rifles are subject to light primer hits, which has the potential to cause a misfire. However, this doesn't seem to occur with any regularity. I have never personally experienced a misfire from this cause. I can understand how a particular rifle may be slightly out of spec and this could occur, as other unrelated problems can cause the same. Another good reason to keep the business end pointed in a safe direction. I think even with soldiers the term 'safe' is a misnomer. All experienced shooters understand that a firearm with a round chambered is never completely safe until the chamber is positively cleared.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 5:56:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 199: [b]James_Gang[/b] Very interesting link. However, I would approach this info with a bit of caution based on the below quote from this article:
...There is also a significant safety issue that bears further investigation. Apparently when the M4 selector is in the "Safe" position and the bolt is allowed to ride forward, the firing pin still makes contact with the bullet primer. A CSM in the 101st related a story of a soldier who had an accidental discharge while his weapon was in the safe position - the CSM personally witnessed this incident. Numerous soldiers showed us bullets in their magazines that had small dents in the primer. There may be a "Safety of Use" message out on this issue but it is not well known at the battalion-and-below level....
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Yep, primer dents are more common than not! This article was reprinted for blackwater where it railed against clp etc. "for causing soldiers deaths" and at the end sugested.....Militec! Funny how it sounded so similar to the Militec website. Caution indeed!
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 12:16:47 PM EDT
The primer dents will not cause a misfire but rather a slam fire.Its common to see the primer dents not only in the AR15/M16 but also M1 Garand and M14. Ive seen one out of battery with a M1 due to improper primer seating and it was nasty. Primer dents are also common with the sks,AK47 and even the G3 that does use a firing pin spring. Primer hardness and seating depth are all specified to prevent and deal with the condition.Out of spec ammo can be the blame for most out of battery ignitions or slam fires. As for the articles throwing blame at clp,I would say its a good militec advertisement.But I will not buy into it. If you want a clp that does not use a solvent then buy the FP-10 as mentioned.It uses a light base oil as a solvent that creeps and lifts fouling from the surface.So there is no solvent in the FP-10. If you want a lubricant protectant that can perform similar to a dry film and performs as a extreme protectant get a tube of TW-25B. Break Free may not be the strongest lube or cleaner but it does a pretty darn good job.It is also an excellent corrosion inhibitor in my opinion.Saying its to blame for soldiers being killed is just flat out disgusting to me. Raymond
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