I am having a problem with my new D&H mags, and I am hoping someone can help me out.

I installed Magpul Gen 2 orange followers in my new mags, and am having problems with feeding the first round. Initially I started with full 30-rd mags, and about half would not strip off the first round. I'd have to pull back the charging handle and let it fly a second time before it'd feed the round. I recall reading here that one sometimes had to only load 28 rds when using Magpul followers, due to the sometimes varying mag dimensions.

I tried 28 rounds in the mags that failed the first try, and most of them failed the 28-rd test too.

I swapped out the Magpul followers and put the original green followers back in. Same problem.

NONE of my old preban mags choked with 30-rds in them.

I gave the D&H mags a close lookover, and I found some things different from my preban mags (Center, Adventureline, primarily). See the pics:

The first thing I noted was that every mag had burrs on both sides, inside. See the arrows to the left. Even mags that had not been inserted in a gun yet had them, so I assume the are burrs from manufacturing.

The second thing is that some of the mags have feed lips that are straight where they contact the round, and one is bent up a bit, like the arrow on the right.  EDIT...the one mag with a bent upwards lip is probably my fault.



Next, I noticed that every mag had the sides of the feedlips dragging against the round at the bottom arrow. The older ones did not do this. Finally, at the top arrow, right side only, the area is curved, whereas on the old ones, it's straight. As it is on the left side.




Finally, here's a pic of the old preban mag: it does not drag on the round, bottom arrow, and is straight at the top arrow.



Here's a pic of the deep scratching on the cases; deep enough to feel with a fingernail, and I suspect the cases are ruined for reloading.



I have to wonder if there was a redesign, or could the D&H mags be out of spec? EVERY D&H I've tried shooting/loading so far has had the big dings on the inside, both sides, and they are all scratching the crap out of the brass. Deep longitudinal scratches.

The guns I'm using these in are both Bushmasters. Seems to make no difference which gun I try them in. One is a 16" carbine, and the other is a 20" gun.

I really shouldn't have to take a file to brand new mags to take out the dings and make them match the old mags. I checked my old preban mags; over 20, and NONE have the dings, and don't contact the rounds on the sides (whereas all the D&H mags do).

Out of curiosity....where or who did you purchase these mags from?

Quoted: Out of curiosity....where or who did you purchase these mags from?

Every one (50 of them; 40 for myself, 10 for a buddy) was purchased from 44mag.com.

Looks like you got a bad batch.  I have ten black teflon D&H 30rd mags I bought during his ShotShow special.  I compared mine to yours, and mine are fine.  They do not look like yours in the feed lip area.  You may need to contact 44mag to let him know about this.  I hope this is of some help.


TS

Damn, I just looked at my D&H mags form 44mag.com and they look like that too. I just got 'em today so I cant comment on feeding issues though.

When did you purchase these?

tag as I've had problems having new D&H teflon mags feed, even with 28 rounds in them.  Same problem, round won't make it more than 1/2 way out of the mag.

Tag.

Why is it so hard to find good feeding mags these days? I had 2 CP's that wouldn't feed in my rifle swapped them for 2 D&H's and they feed great.

I'm kinda leery of buying anymore mags because I don't know if they'll feed or not.

dang i was just about to buy some, !@#$%^&*

Ahh just found this:

Look here at my post, same thing happening all with D&H mags purchased from 44mag.com

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=272935

I bought these mags because of the great reviews they were getting here on AR15.com.  Everyone was saying they couldn't see a difference between Labells and these and same tooling as well.

So what gives?

Now I have to go and inspect every one of them I have.  The only other mags I have are factory bushmaster mags, and from what I know they are also made by the old Labells tooling or D&H with a different floor plate on it.

Oh brother, I hope I don't have $300 of bad mags sitting at home.

I will post some more pics when I get home of my mags.

Gee!  More bunk mags from 44magfag.com!  And more complications with the Magpul crap!

SHOCKING!!  

Just checking all my mags and they are all the same.

12 30rnd black D&H stamped 11/05
5  30rnd grey D&H stamped 12/05
3 20rnd grey D&H stamped 11/05
5 30rnd grey Bushmaster mags stamped 4/05


Now riddle me this.  Per my other post I was loading 5 rounds into the mag and having feeding issues.  per this thread the cuts that are different are all on the right side of the mag.  Now when you load 5 rounds in to a mag the top round is on the left side.
Makes you say hummmmmm.

None of them look like his old pre-ban mag and none of mine have a bent upward lip like his does in the very first picture.

Quoted: Gee!  More bunk mags from 44magfag.com!  And more complications with the Magpul crap! SHOCKING!!

Yeah, but mine didn't come from 44mag--they came from a reputable board dealer.  The problem doesn't seem to be with 44mag--it's with the D&H mags.

Quoted: Quoted: Gee!  More bunk mags from 44magfag.com!  And more complications with the Magpul crap! SHOCKING!!   Yeah, but mine didn't come from 44mag--they came from a reputable board dealer.  The problem doesn't seem to be with 44mag--it's with the D&H mags.

Dig it!  I know 44 doesn't have anything to do with the making of the things.

This is why I'm not stocking up on these JOHNNY COME LATELY mag maker's products.  Seems as if they just got the tooling and were in a BIG HURRY TO CASH IN, Mama!

Quoted: When did you purchase these?

I got 30 of them in late December, and 20 in mid-February. They are dated 11/05 and 12/05.

I find it interesting that now the weather is warming up, and people shoot their new mags, they are finding problems. And the same one...

I'm going to talk to 44mag tomorrow.

The one mag in the first picture with the bent upwards lip is probably my fault, as none of the other mags I've tried has it. I may have pulled the mag out when the round was only halfway fed, pulling the round upwards, bending the lip as it came out of the gun.

I don't think it's 44mag's fault, because they didn't make the mags; these should have never left the factory...I am not impressed with D&H's quality control at all. 50 Mags, 2 different lots/months, all the same problems.

Tag: want to see the out come of all this before I order........if I order.........

I bought 20 of them,10 in January,10 in Febuary from 44 Mag. They've stayed unused until I read this.I loaded up two of them with 30 rounds each.First thing is that they look just like the pics above.In my Bushy they failed to load the first round.I tried each mag several times with the same results.I pulled out one of my Colt AR's and tried them and they worked each and every time.
Can't figure it out why they won't feed in the Bushy.Before this I fed my Bushy with beater Adventureline mags and it has never missed a beat.
I took out a couple of NIW OKay mags and using a magnifying glass compared the feed lips of the OKays to the D&H.The feed lips on the OKays were alot cleaner and smoother than the D&H.
I think that for now on I'll spend two bucks more and buy the OKays.
                                                        My 2 Cents. Nick

Mine are dated 12/05, and when compared to some 04/04s I have, the lips look the same. The newer ones actually have nicer welds. Either way I haven't shot my 12/05s yet but they all hand cycled nice and closed everytime with the bolt release in my bushy, They did however leave deep gouges in the casings which I have yet to compare with other mag brands. This weekend I will shoot the 12/05s and see if I have any problems.

Quoted: Looks like you got a bad batch.  I have ten black teflon D&H 30rd mags I bought during his ShotShow special.  I compared mine to yours, and mine are fine.  They do not look like yours in the feed lip area.  You may need to contact 44mag to let him know about this.  I hope this is of some help. TS

It might be a bad batch, but the mags are stamped 11/05, and 12/05, so it must be a BIG bad batch.

Quoted: Quoted: When did you purchase these? I got 30 of them in late December, and 20 in mid-February. They are dated 11/05 and 12/05. I find it interesting that now the weather is warming up, and people shoot their new mags, they are finding problems. And the same one... I'm going to talk to 44mag tomorrow. The one mag in the first picture with the bent upwards lip is probably my fault, as none of the other mags I've tried has it. I may have pulled the mag out when the round was only halfway fed, pulling the round upwards, bending the lip as it came out of the gun. I don't think it's 44mag's fault, because they didn't make the mags; these should have never left the factory...I am not impressed with D&H's quality control at all. 50 Mags, 2 different lots/months, all the same problems.

Hey Brother, will you keep us posted as to what 44mag says?
Thanks!

Is this problem strictly with the 11/05 and 12/05 mags?

Does anyone have mags from 1/06 or 2/06?  Any problems with them?

I guess the guys that bought cases at a time either haven't had problems or haven't tested their mags yet....

just recieved my order. 4 - 30rd black teflon, all marked 1 - 06. 2 - 20rd black teflon 10 - 05, and 11 - 05. all with original green followers. all appear to be Ok. cannot see, or feel any burrs. cannot check feed until my rifle comes in.

Tag.  I think mine are bad too.  When I release the bolt with 30 loaded, the round only moves about an inch.  Pulling and releasing the charging handle then fully loads the round.  I had a problem with the LULA getting the first few rounds to load.  

I really didn't think too much about this until I saw the post.

I will be inspecting my brass tonight......



edit:  no magpuls in mine, green followers.

edit2:  Mine are Cproducts and do not have the pictured defect. (I forgot these were in the car 6 feet away from me)  Maybe just a break-in issue for me??  I guess I should start just loading 28 again.....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When did you purchase these? I got 30 of them in late December, and 20 in mid-February. They are dated 11/05 and 12/05. I find it interesting that now the weather is warming up, and people shoot their new mags, they are finding problems. And the same one... I'm going to talk to 44mag tomorrow. The one mag in the first picture with the bent upwards lip is probably my fault, as none of the other mags I've tried has it. I may have pulled the mag out when the round was only halfway fed, pulling the round upwards, bending the lip as it came out of the gun. I don't think it's 44mag's fault, because they didn't make the mags; these should have never left the factory...I am not impressed with D&H's quality control at all. 50 Mags, 2 different lots/months, all the same problems. Hey Brother, will you keep us posted as to what 44mag says? Thanks!

I'll get you all updates as I have them. Mark didn't dismiss me out of hand, said he'd look into it, and said he'd get me squared away, so I'm hopeful. Best case, he finds me some D&H mags w/o this problem. If not, I'll ask for some of the Cproducts mags...

Update 2: talked to Mark again. He said he'd issue a call tag for me to send the mags back. I said I'd prefer to get the Cproducts mags as replacements (same price). No problem there. I then said I'd be willing to pay the shipping on the replacements (since he was paying shipping for the returns, and it wasn't his fault the mags were screwed up). He said not to worry about that; he has a lifetime warranty on them, and it was covered.

I told him I won't be able to ship the mags til probably next Monday (sold 10 of the defective mags to a buddy, and won't see him til the weekend). Yet he said he'd get them out asap, regardless.

If that isn't some freaking great customer service, I don't know what is. I just hope he doesn't get too many returns; that kind of customer service could get expensive rather quickly.

Well, after reading this, just got back from some testing. I wanted to find out what was happening with these mags. Just got the Magpuls about 3 weeks ago, and noticed that I was having problems with the gun failing to cycle properly with a few of the mags I've just bought.

The guns:
Bushmaster 16in Carbine (model# BCWA3F 16)
Colt 6721

Both are stock internals. The Bushmaster has 1230 rounds fired through it before testing (I'm trying to find out what fails and when). The Colt has somewhere in the area of 2800 rounds according to its owner.

Here are the results -

----
2 Colt 30 rounders (Test group)

Green: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (All)

(Both guns no FTC)
----
1 Bushmaster 30 rounder dated 4/05

Magpul:  Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (All)
Green: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (All)

(Both guns no FTC)
----
5 D&H 30 rounders dated 8/05

Magpul: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (4)
Magupl: Cycles manually, FTC when firing, cycles with bolt open (1)
Green: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (All)

(Colt on the FTC; was repeatable on same magazine)
----
3 D&H 30 rounders dated 11/05

Magpul: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (1)
Magpul: Cycles manually, FTC when firing, cycles with bolt open (1)
Magpul: Cycles Manually, FTC when firing, FTC with bolt open (1)
Green: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (All)*

(Both guns on Magpul FTC when firing; repeatable on same magazine. Bushmaster on the FTC firing and bolt open; repeatable on same magazine.*One FTC with bolt open on the Colt (Green); wasn't repeatable after 3 tries on same magazine.)
----
4 D&H 30 rounders dated 12/05

Magpul: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (3)
Magpul: FTC manually, FTC when firing, FTC with bolt open (1)
Green: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (3)
Green: FTC manually, FTC when firing, FTC with bolt open (1)

(Both guns on the same magazine (with Magpul or Green) had FTC on all 3 parts of test; repeatable.)
----
2 CP 30 rounders bought 12/05

Magpul: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (1)
Magpul: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, FTC with bolt open (1)
Green: Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open (2)

(Bushmaster with the FTC with bolt open; repeatable.)
---

I'd like to know what everyone else is using: Magpul or Green. Obviously (at least from my pathetic testing) there is some kind of problem with these magazines. I'd like to make a point that though we had problems with the Magpuls, I still trust this product, nor am I condemning it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: When did you purchase these? I got 30 of them in late December, and 20 in mid-February. They are dated 11/05 and 12/05. I find it interesting that now the weather is warming up, and people shoot their new mags, they are finding problems. And the same one... I'm going to talk to 44mag tomorrow. The one mag in the first picture with the bent upwards lip is probably my fault, as none of the other mags I've tried has it. I may have pulled the mag out when the round was only halfway fed, pulling the round upwards, bending the lip as it came out of the gun. I don't think it's 44mag's fault, because they didn't make the mags; these should have never left the factory...I am not impressed with D&H's quality control at all. 50 Mags, 2 different lots/months, all the same problems. Hey Brother, will you keep us posted as to what 44mag says? Thanks! I'll get you all updates as I have them. Mark didn't dismiss me out of hand, said he'd look into it, and said he'd get me squared away, so I'm hopeful. Best case, he finds me some D&H mags w/o this problem. If not, I'll ask for some of the Cproducts mags... Update 2: talked to Mark again. He said he'd issue a call tag for me to send the mags back. I said I'd prefer to get the Cproducts mags as replacements (same price). No problem there. I then said I'd be willing to pay the shipping on the replacements (since he was paying shipping for the returns, and it wasn't his fault the mags were screwed up). He said not to worry about that; he has a lifetime warranty on them, and it was covered. I told him I won't be able to ship the mags til probably next Monday (sold 10 of the defective mags to a buddy, and won't see him til the weekend). Yet he said he'd get them out asap, regardless. If that isn't some freaking great customer service, I don't know what is. I just hope he doesn't get too many returns; that kind of customer service could get expensive rather quickly.

That's good service.  I hope D&H will be taking care of him and not giving him a hard time.

I spoke with a dealer that has sold over 10,000 DSG/D&H mags to .mil units. He has had no complaints. D&H has no plans to change the design of the mags. More input needed...

That's not good Ajaka. I'll test my 12/05s on Sat. I know my 05/04s with gen 1 magpuls work 100% though.

Quoted: That's not good Ajaka. I'll test my 12/05s on Sat. I know my 05/04s with gen 1 magpuls work 100% though.

I have 6/05s and 8/05s that run fine.  I hope this is strictly a small batch problem.

Taggged for the outcome.

Tag.  

I think if this was a big deal, we would be hearing about more of it.  Thousdands of these D&H mags have been selling for a while now.

I hope to test some of my cache this weekend.

Update 3: replacement mags shipped the same day (today). With any luck, there won't be any more problems, as I've switched over to the CProducts mags.

Ajaka,

As I recall, aren't the Bushmaster mags just rebadged D&H mags? Might explain a few things...

Quoted: Ajaka, As I recall, aren't the Bushmaster mags just rebadged D&H mags? Might explain a few things...

Yes, that's what I've been told as well. If so, seems that earlier make mags seem to be having fewer problems.

Looking at the pic and my D&H mags, it appears the lip on the right (in this pic, bottom arrow) is wider than the other. This lip is touching the brass of the round that's on that side. The brass isn't touched on the round when a round is on the left side (When viewed from the pic posted). Nothing a file won't fix but sucks to have to file anything you didn't build yourself.

Quoted: Looking at the pic and my D&H mags, it appears the lip on the right (in this pic, bottom arrow) is wider than the other. This lip is touching the brass of the round that's on that side. The brass isn't touched on the round when a round is on the left side (When viewed from the pic posted). Nothing a file won't fix but sucks to have to file anything you didn't build yourself. img387.imageshack.us/img387/6207/resizedmagpic59po.jpg

True, but to have to do it to 50 mags?! Screw that. And there's no guarantee the mag will work afterwards...better to be safe and get another brand, I think.

Quoted: True, but to have to do it to 50 mags?! Screw that. And there's no guarantee the mag will work afterwards...better to be safe and get another brand, I think.

I'd urge a little caution here. The situation that you faced is bad, but D&H has a good reputation. And while I like CP products so far, they haven't been around with their new line as long (God the steel mags look sweet though...)

This thread has got me checking all my mags.I compared the D&H mags that haven't used yet to the LaBelles and I don't see any difference.Definately going to have to take them to the range for a test run though.But I bought the D&H mags months ago and doubt if they are defective I'll be able to do anything about it now.

I just got ten black D&H 01/06 and they are exactly like billclo's pics. I haven't used them yet but I plan to work them tomorrow.

Compared to all my other mags I have alot of dremel work to do on these just to get them straight and even.

Quoted: I just got ten black D&H 01/06 and they are exactly like billclo's pics. I haven't used them yet but I plan to work them tomorrow. Compared to all my other mags I have alot of dremel work to do on these just to get them straight and even.

And that was my point in an earlier post. You shouldn't have to modify the mags to get them to work. I never had to do any work to any of my older pre-ban mags; they ran like champs right out of the package. No break-in, no mods needed.

Please report the issue to whomever you bought them from. Even if they won't replace them, pressure them to talk to the factory about it; there needs to be pressure from the vendors that something is wrong and it needs to be fixed.

Probably it was just a poorly adjusted machine or something, but they should have never left the factory. Who is in charge of inspecting the things? I know from my manufacturing work experience, that few things get more than an occasional inspection, but for magazines, you'd think they'd get a good visual inspection at the least while they're being handled. Especially something as critical as gun magazines.

Sorry, but my confidence in D&H is pretty shaken at this point.

Quoted: Looking at the pic and my D&H mags, it appears the lip on the right (in this pic, bottom arrow) is wider than the other. This lip is touching the brass of the round that's on that side. The brass isn't touched on the round when a round is on the left side (When viewed from the pic posted). Nothing a file won't fix but sucks to have to file anything you didn't build yourself. img387.imageshack.us/img387/6207/resizedmagpic59po.jpg

Mine look exactly like yours.  Do yours not run?

Quoted: Quoted: I just got ten black D&H 01/06 and they are exactly like billclo's pics. I haven't used them yet but I plan to work them tomorrow. Compared to all my other mags I have alot of dremel work to do on these just to get them straight and even. Sorry, but my confidence in D&H is pretty shaken at this point.

Before everyone goes off the deep end....this may be limited to a certain run or could they possibly have been damaged in shipping?


I have 10 grey teflon D&H mags I ordered from Bravo Company not too long ago that look and run perfectly.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just got ten black D&H 01/06 and they are exactly like billclo's pics. I haven't used them yet but I plan to work them tomorrow. Compared to all my other mags I have alot of dremel work to do on these just to get them straight and even. Sorry, but my confidence in D&H is pretty shaken at this point. Before everyone goes off the deep end....this may be limited to a certain run or could they possibly have been damaged in shipping? I have 10 grey teflon D&H mags I ordered from Bravo Company not too long ago that look and run perfectly.

I see no possible way that 50 mags were damaged in shipping, considering 2 different shipments in 2 different months. Zero package damage.  The mags in question are stamped 11/05 and 12/05. Some people are seeing 1/06 as having bad mags also.

I could see a mis-adjusted machine cranking out bad mags, but for 3 months straight?! Who is supposed to be inspecting them? QC dept must be asleep or non-existent. I seriously doubt those right side mag lips touching the rounds are in mil-spec (not as if I have access to a diagram, but I've never seen this on any preban GI mags, and I've got a LOT of them).

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just got ten black D&H 01/06 and they are exactly like billclo's pics. I haven't used them yet but I plan to work them tomorrow. Compared to all my other mags I have alot of dremel work to do on these just to get them straight and even. Sorry, but my confidence in D&H is pretty shaken at this point. Before everyone goes off the deep end....this may be limited to a certain run or could they possibly have been damaged in shipping? I have 10 grey teflon D&H mags I ordered from Bravo Company not too long ago that look and run perfectly. I see no possible way that 50 mags were damaged in shipping, considering 2 different shipments in 2 different months. Zero package damage.  The mags in question are stamped 11/05 and 12/05. Some people are seeing 1/06 as having bad mags also. I could see a mis-adjusted machine cranking out bad mags, but for 3 months straight?! Who is supposed to be inspecting them? QC dept must be asleep or non-existent. I seriously doubt those right side mag lips touching the rounds are in mil-spec (not as if I have access to a diagram, but I've never seen this on any preban GI mags, and I've got a LOT of them).

Mine are stamped 7/05.....I see your point.  These new mags should be looked into.

I got my ass reamed for complaining about part suppliers on another thread. Unrelated to my original complaint with this my first build I've now found the bolt shipped  with a part missing, the stock came with the wrong spring.........and now having a  problem with badly gouged brass.  Oh yea, my mags are D&H , stamped 11/05.  
Edited to say bolt" shipped" ( so the same anal pita's don't blame me for that little screwup).

All right, just got done "modifying" the 12/05 mag that wouldn't function. The feedlip was dremeled at the point touching the cartridge (poorly by yours truly). Functions fine now. Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open. I'll get some pictures up if I get a chance.

Quoted: All right, just got done "modifying" the 12/05 mag that wouldn't function. The feedlip was dremeled at the point touching the cartridge (poorly by yours truly). Functions fine now. Cycles manually, cycles when firing, cycles with bolt open. I'll get some pictures up if I get a chance.

Maybe D&H should supply a Dremel with every case of mags they sell.