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Posted: 5/21/2003 4:08:38 AM EDT
I have a 20 inch DPMS Panther Classic, i took the gun apart and cleaned it and put it back together. I thought i had put it back together right, but then i heard the firing pin bouncing around inside. I opened it up and took the pin out(it wasn't in the carrier). I then decided to close my gun and let a gunsmith deal with it. when I closed my gun, it somehow closed but the back of the carrier had found its way into the front of the buffer tube. It's very jammed and i dont know what could be holding it in place.Has anyone heard of this happeneing in a gun before?Thanks for the help.
Jake
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 4:09:51 AM EDT
I gave it to a gunsmith and he set it up on an AR vise(one that goes into the magazine hole) He says hes going to try to take off the whole buffer tube. He warned that it could damage the frame. (which wouldnt be what im looking to do). This is a totally new gun and im a little scared to let him just start yanking away. What do you guys think my best plan of action is. I dont have have much technical knowledge of these internals and how they work, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also would this be covered by warranty possibly? Thanks ALOT jake
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 4:19:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 4:24:50 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
[img]http://www.ar15.com/content/parts/boltCarrier.gif[/img] Item one shown above was obviously not relaced, which caused fireing pin to not be captured. [img]http://www.ar15.com/content/parts/lower.gif[/img] This is not so easy, to see in pic, but the buffer retaining pin and spring set in the threaded area above between part #s 9, 10 & 23, see the threads? The buffer retaining pin appears to have caught on a portion of your carrier, suggest ya get a thin screwdriver and working from the bottom of the carrier TRY to get the screwdriver in far enough to compress the buffer retaining pin and release the carrier for removal... Or take the butt stock off and remove the buffer tube, but try the above first... Mike you asked: [b]Also would this be covered by warranty possibly?[/b] Most companys would go outta business covering "operator error", so I doubt warranty will cover this situation as the manual that probably came w/ the rifle describes "in-detail" disassembly of your AR.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 4:30:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 4:37:45 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
As long as the carrier, which is stuck in the buffer tube [b]does NOT turn[/b] when he attempts to unscrew the buffer tube, ya should be okay, he'll still probably have to compress the buffer retaining pin as described above, but may have easier time of it by work from the buffer tube area. Should carrier be wedged "tight" and rotate when buffer tube is turned, buffer retaining pin will quite possibly be damaged/sheared off and I guess threads might possibly become damaged, hope your gunsmith is a good one. Mike Found better pic, see parts 38 & 39 below for BRP and br spring: [img]http://usgunparts.com/cgi-bin/merchant2/graphics/00000001/lowpargr.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 7:54:26 AM EDT
jacobgeiermann, what did you take out of the stock when you took it apart? The only time I had the bolt carrier slide back into the buffer tube was when I took the buffer and recoil spring out of a telestock for replacement. Not having the replacement parts, I put the rifle back together without the buffer and spring. When it was tilted muzzle-up, the carrier slid back and into the buffer tube. I was able to get it out by holding the rifle muzzle-down and tapping the muzzle - gently - on a piece of carpet to prevent damage. This allowed the carrier to drop out of the buffer tube and slide back into the upper. As for the firing pin, I'd agree with Mr. Wilson. You forgot to put the retaining cotter pin back in. It's the only thing that holds the firing pin in the bolt.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:45:25 PM EDT
You have a strange problem there. THe rear end of the carrier is a loose fit into the buffer tube. My suspician is that there are loose parts foating about and one is now wedged beteween the carrier and either the reciever extension (buffer tube) or the reciever itself. The carrier key and cam pin engage the upper reciever, and so the carrier should stay put while the buttstock and reciever extension are removed. The buttstock comes off with one screw, but the tube unscrews from the lower. If parts are wedged, this could be a delicate operation. Once the buffer tube is gone, everything else can be moved about, the takedown pins can be popped, and everything else should come apart. Then comes assesment of damage, parts replacement, and reassembly. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:57:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 3:10:45 PM EDT by LoginName]
A couple of ideas... Take a firm grasp of the rifle and with a plastic/leather/rubber mallet (the heavier the better) give the rear of the stock a couple of sharp blows. the inertia might be enough to free up the carrier. If that doesn't work. Remove the stock and hacksaw the back end of the buffer tube off, drop out the spring and buffer, then take a length of wooden dowel (broom handle perhaps) and try tapping the carrier out from the rear. Or, once you have the back end of the buffer tube cut-off and spring and buffer removed, locate the end of the carrier and [b]carefuly[/b] cut away the rest of the tube, about mid-way along the length of the carrier while taking care not to cut into the carrier. Or, just carefuly cut the buffer tube abut 1/4" away from where the tube meets the reciever. Of course you'll need to buy a new buffer tube (and spring if you left it in), but the replacement cost is only about $20.00. On edit: If you try the 1st or 2nd method look through the ejection port and make sure the hammer isn't in the raised/fire position. If it is, insert a tool through the port and lower the hammer to the cocked position. Place selector on safe so the hammer won't trip from being banged around.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:38:55 PM EDT
Study the pics, lower the indent and pull while holding the back of the rifle. You probably have a part wedged between the bolt and buffer tube. If you wreck the buffer tube replace it. Be careful of the pin. If it's not sticking out enough to grab, the buffer tube cost way less than a new bolt. Tj
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 5:49:51 AM EDT
remove the buffer tube.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 1:01:33 PM EDT
I am no expert on the AR put I can't see how the carrier would stick in the buffer tube, it goes there on recoil during normal operation. It may be that your carrier is wedged in the upper, since the firing pin holds the cam pin in position, with it out the cam pin could come partway out of the carrier and jam, possibly against the gas tube? If you look up the mag well you may be able to see the end of the carrier and maybe pulling back slightly on it while shaking the gun ( in an upright position) may work the cam pin back in position, it should not do any damage of this is not the problem and may save a trip to the 'smith. I'm sure a lot of you guys are better aquainted with the rifle, does this seem likely?
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:46:40 PM EDT
This is a ridiculous thread. Anybody who can bone up their gun this much off of somthing so simple deserves what they get. And any smith who can't look at this problem and fix it in a matter of minutes needs remedial gunsmith lessons or he is simply bilking an idiot customer for all they are worth. Sheesh. Chris
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