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Posted: 4/6/2006 4:21:12 AM EDT
I am wanting to build a short barrel rifle from parts. Meaning I want to start with a stripped lower, stripped upper, short barrel and go from there. I know how to build the thing but I don't know how to get the proper paper work and approval for the build. On top of that don't know at what point the short barrel purchase comes into play. If someone out there has done it and has some advise it would be greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 4:29:45 AM EDT
SBR FAQ is your friend.

Here's some pics of mine. My paperwork took 3 months and last week after getting my Form 1 back I assembled this sexy little bitch.




Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:52:06 PM EDT
Yeah, read the FAQ, but to get one thing straight right away: Do not buy or even possess the short barrel until your Form 1 comes back approved. It is against the law to possess a receiver and a short barrel that fits it, even if they are not assembled.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:15:30 PM EDT
Get everything else except the barrel and you are good. Order the barrel and have a non AR owning friend keep it. Or have your dealer keep hold of it. My paperwork is here but I have no barrel!! Oh well.

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 3:52:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Yeah, read the FAQ, but to get one thing straight right away: Do not buy or even possess the short barrel until your Form 1 comes back approved. It is against the law to possess a receiver and a short barrel that fits it, even if they are not assembled.



true dat...
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:41:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Yeah, read the FAQ, but to get one thing straight right away: Do not buy or even possess the short barrel until your Form 1 comes back approved. It is against the law to possess a receiver and a short barrel that fits it, even if they are not assembled.



Sources, please.

Is this true, or is it just a guideline for the paranoid? I thought this is what the Thompson/Center court case cleared up. As long as there is a lawful purpose for the short barrel (SBR), it is legal to possess but not assemble until you get your form 1.

The FAQ was 21 pages long. I stopped well before I got to the end.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:14:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 12:37:56 PM EDT by tarfu64]
BATF=Bureau (of) Abuse To Firearm (owners), just ask the JPFO. They've got a database on abuses to LAW ABIDING citizens, bear that in mind as you read along.

Although I can't and won't recite chapter and verse, Mr. Pogo, I agree with Homeinvader's assertion(s) that you shan't have the parts to assemble an SBR without the proper blessing from the almighty BATF. I believe the SBR guidlines are tantamount to the machine gun parts; ie if you have the parts for a machinegun, even without them being assembled, it is the INTENT that will get you. Not necessarily the parts, but the INTENT.

Now, you've been around long enough on this board to know there are some guys out there who have the BATF guidelines down chapter and verse, and some attorneys who will say (as an example) that it is entirely OK to have auto-M16 parts in a semi-AR15 without any issue, and I believe they are probably correct. However, I do not partake, and strongly caution those who do. ATF can and WILL f**k you up even if you have no INTENT, they WILL FIND A WAY. My thought is, if they can screw with you even if you are on the right side of the law, imagine what they can do if you happen to be on the wrong side. Hmmmmm...

If you are just dying to have your short barrel before you get back the F-1, you must ask yourself "why"? Why do you need to have the SBR parts before you have legal permission to assemble? Is it hard to wait the 3 or 4 days (or overnight, if you must) for shipping to get the barrel/parts when you do have the proper paperwork in hand? Think of this; How much money do you have to defend yourself should Big Bro knock on your door 'cause some asswipe pal of yours who's pissed off about you bangin' his girlfriend (or whatever the reason) drops a dime...because you showed him in a drunken stupor the "cool SBR I just built, but don't yet have the F-1 to own legally (SHHHHH wink-wink)".

Anyways, once you have the tax stamp legally, you are now firmly up on ATF's radar, and one must keep this in mind from that day forward, and behave accordingly.

You may win your case in court, but at what cost? All the BATF has is time and money-unlimited- time and money. I have neither the funds nor time/inclination to get into a pissing match with BATF.

I see no reason for anyone else to either, unless thay plan on an insanity defense.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 1:48:42 PM EDT
So do you need the lower with a serial number to even get the tax stamp? Or can you just submit the application and once approved buy all the parts.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 1:56:32 PM EDT
You have to have a lower receiver with a serial number. This is the item you are registering with the ATF as an SBR with the Form 1

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:43:59 PM EDT
There's another way to have your cake and eat it too. Buy a new, virgin, stripped lower receiver, and have it identified as "pistol" or "stripped lower receiver" on the 4473 form. NOW buy your short barrel/upper, and assemble it onto the new lower. You have now made a legal AR15 pistol, which can later be made into a SBR, once you get the ATF stamp. In fact, if you build the pistol using a standard CAR buffer system, all you have to do to change the pistol into an SBR is slip a CAR stock over the buffer tube. (If you want to be really careful, don't buy the CAR stock until you have the tax stamp).
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:23:25 PM EDT
I am interested in stone cold FACTS and LAW that apply here. I want to know what the law IS, and not someone's well intentioned cautions that may or may not have any basis in fact.

I agree that "constructive intent" is a very grey area, and an aggressive agency and prosecuter might convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt. I further agree it may be considered prudent to stay as far away away from that grey area as possible. Anyone who is into black rifles, especially the regulated varieties, is well in that grey area anyways.

FWIW, ATF knows who I am, as I have a C&R FFL, and have written several letters to the technical branch.

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:02:02 AM EDT
Yup, Pogo, you are correct, and it is stone cold facts that I do not have when it comes to the minutiae of ATF's laws, I only know enough to get me to the block, not the particular building--so to speak. "Enough to keep me out of trouble".

Anyway, it's the "grey" area that makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end, it's what the ATF typically uses when they go after someone. It's the area I'm least comfortable with, so I have a strong sense to try to dissuade those who are thinking of dabbling in the dark netherworld of NFA items to go strictly by the book. I hate to see a good guy go down and take his family with him for doing something with no intent. There's too few of us out there, so I need to keep as many of us around as I can...the ol' "safety in numbers" thing.

I love my SBR, and I encourage anyone who wishes to either go out and purchase one or build it themselves to get on and do it, for nothing else other than the "cool" factor. I just hate to see anyone get in trouble.

That's my .02. I'm done, thank God.
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