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Posted: 3/9/2006 7:13:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 7:20:59 AM EDT by etexer]
Well. Fister came over to get some help and to use tools on his Model1 upper. All we were doing was swapping out the forearm. Broke two strap wrenches trying to get the FF tube off. FINALLY came off. Werent there yet. Could not for the life of us get the barrel nut off. We did not have a upper block...IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE GET ONE. I have done a ton of builds without it. Was always able to block the upper in a vise with wood blocks with no problem. Remember 40-80 tourque is all ya need on a barrel nut, depending on who ya ask. Anyway, should have listened, so learn from my mistake. Another buddy re-blocked it and went to wrenchin on it till the reciever cracked! Saw that one coming. Both his feet were off the ground. Thats like 250+ on the tourque. Still didnt budge. After he cracked the reciever it didnt matter anymore. Vised it down and I went at it and BROKE the teeth off a DPMS barrel nut wrench. It also broke through the gas tube holes of the barrel nut. Still did not come loose, and yes we tried heat,cold,ect. After an hour or so we did get it off with a YHM barrel nut wrench and a sledge. There was no loc-tyte and it was moly greased. Dont know what the hell they used to put that thing on. Fister then went to stripping the rest of the upper down the roll pins were just as bad. So we try to help a guy out and DESTROY his stuff. Great. He was out an upper, and I was out barrel nut wrench. I did get him hooked up with a new lower for $50 and payed the rest, to help with damages . Glad he had a good scence of humor and he even wants to come back. We are gonna moly coat his AR. Says he couldnt kill us cuz he just moved here and doesnt have place to hide the bodys Moral off the story. Dont be a redneck, buy reciever blocks,they are cheaper than recievers. Buy a Model1 only if you plan to keep it the way it is.


Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:45:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:50:54 AM EDT
Wow--serious torque applied to that barrel nut.

Great pics and a great cautionary tale here. Add some pics of the cracked receiver and this post is tack-worthy, IMO.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:54:52 AM EDT
Get right outta town! Model 1 sucks??? No one ever knew that before!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:12:50 AM EDT
great post, thanks for taking the time to post
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:28:50 AM EDT
i had a similar incident, two yhm wrenches and a dpms wrench later it finally came off with a cheap gunshow wrench.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:22:05 AM EDT
I had the worst one of my life the other day.

I had a factory armalite upper, A3, in an action block. Just trying to pop off the barrel nut to install a LaRue 9.0.

I put all my weight on the wrench, would not budge. The receiver was torquing the crap outa my action block. I was afraid the receiver might give.

Applied some heat.... no difference.

So - I applied a 4 FOOT piece of pipe on the end of the armorers wrench, and it still took a LOT of torque to crack loose.

I was amazed to see a good coating of moly grease existing on the threads. I was expecting loctite or epoxy.

When we installed the LaRue - it was the same thing.... at just snug, the barrel nut gas tube hole was just past perfect. Had to go all the way to the next one, and it got TIGHT halfway there. Had to bust out the BFH to nail this one. Luckily, this ar went home with no damage.



On that pic of the broken barrel nut - you should not use an armorers wrench for installing/removing aluminum nuts. Aluminum is too soft - you should get a YHM or GI type wrench with three lugs.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:25:13 AM EDT
What the hell is all that white crap on the bench?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:30:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
What the hell is all that white crap on the bench?



"Tears" of joy.

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:01:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 7:05:53 AM EDT by etexer]
FALARAK : What the hell is all that white crap on the bench? Oh common, you know what it is. The white stuff is how I afford the AR's and the true reason Fister came over . Get you mind outta the gutter. That is the bench outside the shop, Sand from sandblasting for moly coating. We now have a blasting box.

Glad to see I'm not the only one to have gone through this. Looks like I need to invest in a cheap gunshow wrench . I am more than happy to post my mistakes for others to learn from. I could be all like SSHHhhhsh dont tell anyone I can be a goober. But everyone that knows me knows im a goober and I know it can happen to the best of us.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:15:09 AM EDT
Sorry to hear about your ordeal.
fwiw, I've had 3 Model 1 complete uppers and I broke them down into components for storage after having them for 13+ years completely assembled. They came apart with no problems whatsoever; easier than I imagined.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 2:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Had to go all the way to the next one, and it got TIGHT halfway there. Had to bust out the BFH to nail this one. Luckily, this ar went home with no damage..



Randall makes some bbl nut indexing shims. If anyone is going to be doing a lot of AR upper work it would probably be smart to buy several and have them ready.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/prices.shtml

rj
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 2:55:55 PM EDT
Criminy sakes man!

Remember, if it's maximum torque is 80# on, it's 80# off as well.

Consider heating it just to the point of softening any adhesive someone made have applied during its assembly.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:23:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By etexer:
FALARAK : What the hell is all that white crap on the bench? Oh common, you know what it is. The white stuff is how I afford the AR's and the true reason Fister came over . Get you mind outta the gutter. That is the bench outside the shop, Sand from sandblasting for moly coating. We now have a blasting box.

Glad to see I'm not the only one to have gone through this. Looks like I need to invest in a cheap gunshow wrench . I am more than happy to post my mistakes for others to learn from. I could be all like SSHHhhhsh dont tell anyone I can be a goober. But everyone that knows me knows im a goober and I know it can happen to the best of us.



VERY "BROKEBACK RANT THERE
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:40:29 PM EDT
I broke a receiver in almost the exact same spot when I first learned how to rebarrel. I immediately bought the vise jaw blocks, that's a mistake you never make twice.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:01:50 PM EDT
broke my wrench the same way...used a drill and made a nice channel throught the wrench where the pin was supposed to be and put in a screw that matched the same dameter of the barrel nut and continued working.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:26:51 PM EDT
This reminds me of that old Aamco commercial with the chimps in lab coats beating on a transmission. I'm sorry, but if there comes a time when you're working on something, particularly something that belongs to somebody else, and you realize you will probably screw up if you continue, then you just give it back to them and suggest they get professional help. That takes more guts then just going ahead and breaking it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 8:17:20 PM EDT
I had the barrelnut problem a couple of weeks ago, and soaked the hell out of it with Kroil and came back about one later and it came off, but it was still tough.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 8:33:02 PM EDT
Ouch.

Sory for the loss.

Try cutting the nut with cut off wheel about 2/3 way thru next time.

Do this on both sides and slip in a pry bar... "Pop" , and " Pop" the 2 halves of the barrel nut drop to the floor.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:09:11 PM EDT
Initially our intent was to keep the nut in tact. However it was definetly worth a good laugh. I am rather suprised you posted this after all. I just got back from work and should have all the rest of the parts within the next two weeks. Hope you have enough green to go around

When completed I will post pix of it for all to see

What can I say, Shit happens.

Its only bad if you dont learn from it.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:07:05 AM EDT
Okay, guys, here's a tip and it works pretty darn good.

Buy a can of Kroil super penetrant. You can get it from Brownells. This stuff WORKS like you would not believe. Take an ounce of Kroil and mix it with an ounce of powder solvent like Outers Nitro Solvent.....hang your upper with the barrel down and liberally apply the mix to the rear for the barrel nut and all over the Delta ring assembly......soak the front sight band and drip a bunch down the outside and inside of the gas tube.

Let is sit in a fairly warm ( room temperature or better ) place over night......you will be thoroughly suprised at what you can get loose with this mix.....
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:15:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 4:16:07 PM EDT by etexer]
You can bet I'll try it. Thanks for the tip!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:44:02 PM EDT
etexer,

Did you ever call us about the barrel nut? Of course you know now that a receiver block is required. The FF tubes are only snugged up, I am not sure why you had so much trouble getting it off. We use a Klein strap wrench not a rubber strap wrench. If you ever have any questions please call us. We will make it right.


modog,

Is your opinion based on personal experience or something you read about on AFCOM?

srt205
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:12:31 PM EDT
Big +1 for Model1Sales Customer Service,One step above outstanding!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 3:24:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 3:26:43 PM EDT by hispeedal2]

Originally Posted By srt205:
etexer,

Did you ever call us about the barrel nut? Of course you know now that a receiver block is required. The FF tubes are only snugged up, I am not sure why you had so much trouble getting it off. We use a Klein strap wrench not a rubber strap wrench. If you ever have any questions please call us. We will make it right.


modog,

Is your opinion based on personal experience or something you read about on AFCOM?

srt205



I am glad to see they finally showed up to defend themselves. Model One has been like a shooting gallery for so long. I have to admit, I have had good luck with them every time I have used them. Needed customer service once when they sent me the wrong type carry handle. They fixed it and had it back in a week.

On the other hand, I helped a friend build a lower and recommended Model One. The upper he got obviously had an oversized gasport. Carrier was slamming back HARD. He called to see if they would send him a new barrel and they wanted him to ship the whole upper. He said screw it and ordered from JT. Turned out that the gasport was only one problem. Still had failures to extract about 3-4 rounds out of each mag. The bolt ended up being out of spec (we literally changed everything in it before changing the bolt). Changed it with a DPMS- carbine works 100%.

Last time I will recommend an upper from there. I will still use them to buy parts here and there, but my confidence is shaken. This is after building 5-6 builds with their uppers.


ETA: The barrel was not a total loss- cut it down to 11.5" and attached a permanent 5.5"FH- build a second carbine that works 100%.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 7:15:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 7:30:38 PM EDT by QuarterStickNick]
So what is the best receiver block and barrel wrench out there to do the job for a FF rail?I need to install a FF rail and need everything to do it.What tools should I get and where?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:00:45 PM EDT
The kroil has been the key for the barrels I have worked on, as stated soak it up but I put in in the breach in the receiver and where the barrel meets up with the receiver at the delta ring mates. I never put anything into the gas tube or use pipe cleaners or brushes.

I have found the Oly wrench to work the best. I like the way its layed out with no fittings on the top of the log handle so its smooth for the down force you need to break the barrels free. It has the exact fitting for flash hidders and 1/2" drive torch wrench and the 300 degree of nipples that firmly mesh up with the barrel nut, easy off and smooth for assembly when indexing the barrel.

My 2 cents..
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