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Posted: 2/7/2006 12:59:06 PM EDT
Hey Guys,

Im sure this has already been covered but I cant find anything:

Does Bushmaster Locktite their Barrel nuts or something? even with the right tools that thing just dosent want to budge.

Any suggestions before I bust out the dremal?

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:01:21 PM EDT
I doubt that they locktited it. If so, just a little heat will cause it to release. All locktites release at only 300 degrees. Are you sure you are turning it the correct way? It could be just tight.
Good luck, Try not to break any of the bbl nut teeth.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:06:40 PM EDT
I replaced a Bushy barrel a couple of years ago. It was pretty tight, but with a good wrench and a receiver "action block" in a good strong vice, it wasn't too bad. Hardest part was keeping the wrench straight while pulling on it.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:06:48 PM EDT
No, Ive done this a time or two, just never worked on BM barrels that much or never one strait from the factory. becasue of hurting the teeth is why I stopped.
Thanks
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:08:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
I replaced a Bushy barrel a couple of years ago. It was pretty tight, but with a good wrench and a receiver "action block" in a good strong vice, it wasn't too bad. Hardest part was keeping the wrench straight while pulling on it.



Got all the tools and blocks and I feel like I am putting way to much presure on it. and I have changed about 50 barrels or so now...
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:25:22 PM EDT
Are you using a quality armorer's wrench that grips at least half the circumference of the barrel nut?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:28:11 PM EDT
YES

Guys I know how to take off a barrel! My question is does BM Locktite their BNuts? Thats all I need to know...

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:32:27 PM EDT
Guys SD knows what he's doing.

I doubt they loctite them but I wouldn't be surprised if they over tigthtened them.

IM long-rifle-tactical and ask him. He used to have to work on them all the time.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:38:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 1:42:06 PM EDT by wildearp]
Let me tell you from recent knowledge. I used one of the best tools on the market with a 2 foot cheater bar and an action block and could not budge a barrel nut (armalite) that I heated up with a heat gun and a propane torch until it was smoking. I broke the wrench. Any more torque and I probably would have bent/broken the upper receiver.

I sent it to ADCO. They are fast. I suggest you do the same.

From what I can tell, they locked the barrel in a barrel vice and probably used an even better/stronger tool than I had and it was back to me in no time. Of course it came back threaded for a Gemtech.

If you want to give it one more try, there are three chems that you can try to loosen up loctite. MEK, Tolulene, and Butyl Celusolve. I did not try those, because I didn't want to discolor the anodizing. There is commercial loctite remover too, but IIRC it contains any one or all of the mentioned chems.

Good Luck. Don't break your wrench. Once you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:43:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SIMPLYDYNAMIC:
YES

Guys I know how to take off a barrel! My question is does BM Locktite their BNuts? Thats all I need to know...

Thanks



NO

Manufacturers don't Loc-Tite their barrel nuts. If they use anything at all, it is moly lube or anti-seize so that they will come off easier.

Sounds like this one is just dry and overtight. That's why Bushmaster has had such a problem with the barrels being canted in the upper receiver. Put some weight into it, you have no other choice.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:08:26 PM EDT
i have like 7 bushmaster upper and none are loc-tited

maybe you are getting old?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 3:17:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 3:18:05 PM EDT by Stickman]
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:25:53 PM EDT
Haha Thanks guys,

I will get the cheater bar and a buddy and if that dosent work I will just cut the damn thing off, I have about 20 or so barrel nuts laying around anyways....


and no Im not getting old! LOL
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:27:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:58:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 5:58:48 PM EDT by gus]
Bottom line, mine didn't have Loctite, and was tighter than what seemed normal. I've done maybe 15 barrels total, this one (my Bushmaster) was the tightest on disassembly.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:36:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 6:36:33 PM EDT by SIMPLYDYNAMIC]
ok guys Got-It!

it took putting the the upper in the vice block and then bringing over another Vice to hold the FSB for more leverage and then my freind and I worked it until it poped.....that was BS! BM needs to put some anti-seeze on their shit!

Thanks again Guys
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:19:10 AM EDT
Anti-sieze and about half as much torque. No wonder they've had some problems with canted sight bases.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:04:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 3:06:47 AM EDT by gotm4]

Originally Posted By SIMPLYDYNAMIC:
Haha Thanks guys,

I will get the cheater bar and a buddy and if that dosent work I will just cut the damn thing off, I have about 20 or so barrel nuts laying around anyways....


and no Im not getting old! LOL



Yeah you are! So am I!

That's the life of a beachbum brah!



The freezer trick usually works pretty well. I usually do that after soaking it with Kroil for a few hours.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:38:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Put your upper in the freezer overnight.



I have an upper with a Briley carbon fiber free float tube, which was intstalled using RED LokTite. I'll apply Kroil for 24 hours prior to taking the deep freeze overnight, at its coldest setting.

Thanks for the tip.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:11:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SIMPLYDYNAMIC:
Hey Guys,

Im sure this has already been covered but I cant find anything:

Does Bushmaster Locktite their Barrel nuts or something? even with the right tools that thing just dosent want to budge.

Any suggestions before I bust out the dremal?

Thanks



I would say no also...My stock bushie barrel came loose in my upper after about 1500 rounds in a matter of about 1 1/2 years. I wasnt too impressed with that, but shit happens.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 7:46:37 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By gus:
Anti-sieze and about half as much torque. No wonder they've had some problems with canted sight bases.




Uhhh... they torque them until the gas tube lines up, just like the rest of us do. Sometimes this means it lines up with the perfect amount of torque, sometimes it means you have to torque the shit out of it to get it to the next gas tube position. For those of us who build our own.... too loose is ok, if it ever worked loose, we can snug it up ourselves. For a manufacturer, it is better to go to the next gas tube alignment, or try a different barrel nut. A loose barrel in the field, while not a big deal, would be frowned upon by the community.

My experience has been that Bushmaster uses some type of motor oil/gear oil on their threads for the barrel nut, and that is consistent with their armorers videos. I popped one loose a couple days ago. Came right off, no big deal, and had what looked to be a gear oil on the threads. Sure, I would prefer Moly grease, but I haven't noticed Bushy barrel nuts being installed any different than any other manufacturers. FSBs - now that is a different story!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:08:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By psebowhunter:
I would say no also...My stock bushie barrel came loose in my upper after about 1500 rounds in a matter of about 1 1/2 years. I wasnt too impressed with that, but shit happens.



While not favorable - this can happen to any manufacturer. When you tighten the barrel nut, you snug it three times to the minimum torque. (or just get it hand tight) Then you review the gas tube alignment cuts in the barrel nut. The design is to tighten the barrel to the next available gas tube alignment cut, so it will line up with the hole in the upper receiver. Sometimes this takes minimal torque, sometimes it will take a lot. It all depends on the barrel nut/receiver threads.

If the correct alignment is reached, and the torque is not enough, you go to the next hole.... this almost always leads to overtorquing. For the home builder... big deal, torque away. For the manufacturer, they should try a different barrel nut until they reach a combination where they hit good alignment and stay in the spec torque range.

Occasionaly, the correct alignment is reached, and the torque is withing spec, but on the bottom range of the torque spec. These barrels have the highest likelyhood of shooting loose. When I say loose - it is not a danger issue - they will just slightly rock back and forth a tiny amount. The play is caused by the barrel nut no longer frezzing the barrel extension shoulder against the receiver, and the indexing pin on the extension can rock slightly inside the upper receiver indexing slot. You could shoot for years like this with no ill effects, other than the chance of a slight windage error when using irons. Bushmaster (or any manufacturer) would obviously correct this problem.

I have it happen much more often when using aluminum barrel nuts, like on free float installs. That is just another reason I prefer the LaRue rails, because they still use a steel barrel nut.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:43:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By gus:
Anti-sieze and about half as much torque. No wonder they've had some problems with canted sight bases.




Uhhh... they torque them until the gas tube lines up, just like the rest of us do. Sometimes this means it lies up with the perfect amount of torque, sometimes it means you have to torque the shit out of it to get it to the next gas tube position. For those of us who build our own.... too losse it ok, if it ever worked loose, we can snug it up ourselves. For a manufacturer, it is better to go to the next gas tube alignment, or try a different barrel nut. A loose barrel in the field, while not a big deal, would be frowned upon by the community.

My experience has been that bushmaster uses some type of motor oil/gear oil on their threads for the barrel nut, and that is consistent with their armorers videos. I popped one loose a couple days ago. Came right off, no big deal, and had what looked to be a gear oil on the threads. Sure, I would prefer Moly grease, but I havent noticed Bushy barrel nuts being installed any different than any other manufacturers. FSBs - now that is a different story!



Well I can only speak to mine, and my experience replacing the barrel. I removed a Bushmaster barrel which was VERY tight. I'm talking 100+ ft/lbs of torque. I replaced it with another Bushmaster barrel, which lined up perfectly just a shade past where the torque spec was reached. I didn't think to try to re-torque to original barrel to see if it needed that much torque to line up, but with enough force I could have cranked the new one down to the next notch the same way they did. Mine had what appeared to be moly grease, but it could have been gear oil I guess. I used moly when I reassembled it.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 9:55:54 AM EDT
Ease a little nail polish remover into the cracks, I just had to remove a barrel that had been loktited, and worked fine. You'll have to tap a little on the front of the reciever to get it to loosen up. PAD IT WELL!!
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 10:10:33 AM EDT
I had a Bushy that was the devil to get off!!! Took over 100 ft lbs.

I really began to think about holding that alum upper in the vise. I think in those cases it might be better to get a barrel vise fixture? Anyone ever broken or cracked an upper trying to break a nut loose?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 10:14:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By persimmonpete:
I had a Bushy that was the devil to get off!!! Took over 100 ft lbs.

I really began to think about holding that alum upper in the vise. I think in those cases it might be better to get a barrel vise fixture? Anyone ever broken or cracked an upper trying to break a nut loose?



Putting it in a barrel vise would be worse. Then, all the torque would be on the tiny barrel indexing pin, and the slot in the upper receiver. Exactly why action blocks were invented.
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