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Posted: 2/1/2006 1:48:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 4:55:42 PM EDT by septic-tank13]
i've heard from a myriad of people that these parts, like the lower parts kits, usually come from a few sources. barrels come from four or five manufacturers of blanks, and everyone else is essentially a middle man or adds a feature or cuts on the blanks... uppers and lowers are cast by a handful of places and each company finishes them in their own way (i know the latter to be true, because i've watched it)...

and lastly, DPMS gets shit slung at them everytime i turn around. i asked a dealer about them and he refered to them as the naughty version of a prostitute saying they rarely support the dealer network and that's the largest reason they are targeted for mud slinging...

i would like the answers to who is building the rifle barrels and who they sell to and on down the line. i'd like the same for the parts and kits... the uppers and lowers i'm little concerned with, but just the same i'd like the skinny!!! DPMS - anyone?

i posted the other day about an E.R. Shaw barrel for a guy who was looking at an Adams and Bennett stick... i had a guy IM me saying that A&B was junk and the Shaw is superb. another guy posted on the thread saying Shaw makes the sticks for A&B... WTF? i don't want this to turn into a bitch session, but the education will do me well.

let's hear the scoop!

septic tank

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:36:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 2:37:27 PM EDT by terrydavis]

Originally Posted By septic-tank13:
i've heard from a myriad of people that these parts, like the lower parts kits, usually come from a few sources. barrels come from four or five manufacturers of blanks, and everyone else is essentially a middle man or adds a feature or cuts on the blanks... uppers and lowers are cast by a handful of places and each company finishes them in their own way (i know the latter to be true, because i've watched it)...

and lastly, DPMS gets shit slung at them everytime i turn around. i asked a dealer about them and he refered to them as the naughty version of a prostitute saying they rarely support the dealer network and that's the largest reason they are targeted for mud slinging...

i would like the answers to who is building the rifle barrels and who they sell to and on down the line. i'd like the same for the parts and kits... the uppers and lowers i'm little concerned with, but just the same i'd like the skinny!!! DPMS - anyone?

i posted the other day about an E.R. Shaw barrel for a guy who was looking at an Adams and Bennett stick... i had a guy IM me saying that A&B was junk and the Shaw is superb. another guy posted on the thread saying Shaw makes the sticks for A&B... WTF? i don't want this to turn into a bitch session, but the education will do me well.

let's hear the scoop!

septic tank




Reason and experience doesn't work for the naysayers, so I going to try a new tack. On the eighth day GOD saw everything was good, but creating DPMS would make it better, so HE did and it was.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:47:51 PM EDT
ANOTHER DPMS QUESTION!!!!!!!!!! You will learn that a lot of people like DPMS rifles/parts. There are some here on the site that apparently know a shit load of people that have had nothing but problems with DPMS products (seems kind of suspect though).I happen to like DPMS rifles/products and know of no one that has ever had a problem with the rifles/parts. Let the shit storms begin!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:59:15 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:00:13 PM EDT
Between my brother and I we have over 15 builds. All had some or many DPMS parts in them with zero problems. Brownells sells many DPMS parts and Brownells does not sell junk. I have purchased parts that were out of spec from Sherluk. I have 3 barrels from DPMS and they all shoot great.

Others may have had problems but I have not.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:39:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 4:43:48 PM EDT by Big-Bore]
This has been my experience with DPMS products. Decide for yourself.

Stainless steel lower, black Tefloned: Issues with the mag well. It was too far forward by about 1/64 inch so the magazine would jam into the upper and not drop free. After filing away a small amount of the shelf right below the barrel extension the mags drop free just fine and there seems to be no ill affect. This was on a DPMS LoPro upper but when I switched the lower to other uppers the problem occurred again. Evidence that the problem was in the lower, not the uppers. The lower was moved to a DPMS .22 LR upper and there were no issues with that upper and .22 LR mags. Everything else perfect and uneventful.

Forged 6.8 lower: Trigger guard would not accept the Mag-Pul enhanced trigger guard. I had to re-shape the ears slightly then the MP went on just fine. No other issues and build was uneventful.

DPMS upper A3 #1 & 2: #1 upper rail not mill spec and ARMS 40A would not go on. DPMS dealer replaced the upper no questions asked. Replacement upper (#2) was perfect. No other problems with build.

DPMS upper A3 #3: No issues at all. Perfect.

DPMS LoPro upper: No issues at all. Perfect.

DPMS parts for building 7 lowers and two uppers (all parts from Brownell's): One take down pin was oversized and would not go in the hole. Replaced it with another pin and all was well. In seven lower builds and two uppers-FA group and charging handle-buying part by part (I use only RR NM two-stage WOA tuned trigger groups and Hogue grips so I do not buy the lower parts kit) the one take down pin was the only problem.

DPMS .22 LR upper: No issues at all. Holds 1 inch ten-shot groups at 50 yards with RWS Subsonic ammo. Not great, but for sure not bad either.

Problems? Yes, but not enough that I would quit buying DPMS parts, lowers, or uppers if needed. And, DPMS took care of the one problem brought to their attention (replaced upper). They instructed the DPMS dealer to replace it with no hassles.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:54:58 PM EDT
i knew i should have saved my DPMS questions for another day...

leave the DPMS issues aside for a minute as i'll remove it from my topic line. i'm most interested in the parts, barrels, etc. where do they come from? who is actually making the parts and barrels and who are they selling/distributing to, and so on.

do all the lower kits parts come from just a handful of places and if so where do they go? who is selling the same parts? are the DPMS, bushy, and RRA parts all from the same place, etc?

same thing with barrels... i would like to KNOW where the blanks came from and who is selling whose stuff...

anybody have the REAL story on this?

thanks,

septic tank

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:08:45 PM EDT
Tagged for this info i'd really like to know more as well.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:22:44 PM EDT
Lewis Machine and Tool and Continental Machine and Tool make a lot of parts, for everyone. Olympic's are made in house. They used to make Rock River parts. I don't know where DPMS shit comes from, but it truely is crap. Colt only makes bolts.

Here is the problem with the so called subcontractor argument. The parts that CMT makes for their house brand may not be as good as the parts that Colt uses on it's .mil M4s. The tolerances are higher, raising costs. So regardless of who made the parts, get the good stuff.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:34:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ASU1911:
Lewis Machine and Tool and Continental Machine and Tool make a lot of parts, for everyone. Olympic's are made in house. They used to make Rock River parts. I don't know where DPMS shit comes from, but it truely is crap. Colt only makes bolts.

Here is the problem with the so called subcontractor argument. The parts that CMT makes for their house brand may not be as good as the parts that Colt uses on it's .mil M4s. The tolerances are higher, raising costs. So regardless of who made the parts, get the good stuff.

Nice. Can we get your expert opinion about why DPMS products are crap? I am sure that every part you ordered from them was out of spec or your brother's, sister's, cousin's half sister's roomate had a DPMS rifle that was a piece of crap? Or maybe all the people at your last carbine class that had DPMS rifles had major problems with their rifles? Just trying to figure out where your statement might have originated from.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 10:59:19 PM EDT
Upper reciever was out of spec the the weapon never ran right, culminating in a malfunction that locked the gun up tight and required a box full of tools to get apart.

And I was the lucky one. Their problems are well documented.

Oh, did I mention the carrier key came improperly staked and the gas rigs were worn out in 2000 rounds?

Get Colt, LMT, STAG or Noveske and you won't have these problems.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:04:00 AM EDT
what about barrels? does anyone have the scoop on this?

septic tank.

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:42:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 1:53:23 PM EDT by eddiein1984]
The vast majority of the barrels are either made by Shaw or Wilson. Del-ton, Rock River, DPMS, and a few others use Wilson, while others use Shaw. They are both 4140 chrome-moly, same twists, same profile. Both companies offer chrome lined and non-chrome lined barrels. Bushmaster and Olympic are the only complete rifle makers that make their own barrels. Bushmaster and Colt barrels are made of 4150 chrome-moly and a lot of people here seem to have a hard-on for that extra 0.1% carbon content.

As for DPMS, I think the vast majority of their products are great. I have an upper and LPK that are better than the two Bushmaster's I've owned, as in no functional issues and better finished parts. The two things you hear about DPMS fairly regularly are: 1) their bolts have a high failure rate and 2) in the past some of their barrels have very tight chambers. When I bought my DPMS upper, I sold the bolt/carrier on the EE for $100 and then bought a Stag enhanced for $105. Problem solved.

People here get so caught up in the name game, it is ridiculous. If you are buying components from any of the big, reputable names they SHOULD be in spec and compatible with other in spec components. If you happen to get a part that is out of spec, call them and send it back.

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:53:19 PM EDT
My dpms works great.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 4:01:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ASU1911:
Upper reciever was out of spec the the weapon never ran right, culminating in a malfunction that locked the gun up tight and required a box full of tools to get apart.

And I was the lucky one. Their problems are well documented.

Oh, did I mention the carrier key came improperly staked and the gas rigs were worn out in 2000 rounds?

Get Colt, LMT, STAG or Noveske and you won't have these problems.



I have seen this with other manufacturers, besides DPMS. And you named one of them.

Weazer
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:00:58 PM EDT
Tweak posted awhile back the correct way to stake a carrier key. Most of the major brands do it wrong if his thread post was right.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:07:17 PM EDT
So? It was deficient in more ways than one. Fact.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:02:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
The vast majority of the barrels are either made by Shaw or Wilson. Del-ton, Rock River, DPMS, and a few others use Wilson, while others use Shaw. They are both 4140 chrome-moly, same twists, same profile. Both companies offer chrome lined and non-chrome lined barrels. Bushmaster and Olympic are the only complete rifle makers that make their own barrels. Bushmaster and Colt barrels are made of 4150 chrome-moly and a lot of people here seem to have a hard-on for that extra 0.1% carbon content.



I believe (don't know) that Sabre Defence does their own work too. Talon Arms sells them.

GL
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