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Posted: 1/26/2006 5:16:03 PM EDT
I sereched around online here quite a bit, as well as other places on the net and I am still undecided.
I basically want to get a functional AR that I can add parts to in the future. This will not be my last.

www.mapartsinc.com has the best overall deal, and they offer a %10 military/LEO discount which is a plus. I am looking for an A2 mid length 16" and internet rumor has it that RRA makes the mid uppers for M&A which is a plus.
With their mid-upper kit ($495 shipped after discount) and a RRA lower I could have a fully functioning AR for less than $600.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Along the way as I see deals I will also be picking up parts to do a full out AR build.

Suggestions, tips, advice would be appreciated.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:19:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 6:20:43 PM EDT by FALARAK]
1. J&T
2. Del-ton


Friends, dont let friends, buy stuff from M&A.


Seriously.... trying to save a few bucks... if you have to, fine... I understand. But if you are going to shoot at all..... you will spend twice in ammo what you paid for the gun in the first year. Make quality component purchases, and dont let the $ amount be the first factor in your choice.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:19:38 PM EDT
I have been very pleased with the quality of parts and the EXCELLENT customer service from the fine folks at J&T/Doublestar. Give them a call before you decide - if Teresa, who usually answers the phone, can't answer your questions, she'll put Jesse on and he'll spend as much time as you need him to. GREAT FOLKS!

flcracker
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:26:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 6:33:40 PM EDT by Surgical]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
1. J&T
2. Del-ton


Friends, dont let friends, buy stuff from M&A.


Seriously.... trying to save a few bucks... if you have to, fine... I understand. But if you are going to shoot at all..... you will spend twice in ammo what you paid for the gun in the first year. Make quality component purchases, and dont let the $ amount be the first factor in your choice.



I understand that, but if the upper really is a RRA on the mid length like I have read, then all thats left to chance is the parts kit, since most all stripped lowers are created equal.

Buying an complete RRA upper with b/bc/ch costs what the entire MA kit does....so thats my line of thinking. IF I have problems I can always replace the lower parts kit with something reputable.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:51:32 PM EDT
You might have another look at Del-Ton. They use the same barrel at RRA and it is said the same CMT upper. $455-465 for the kit less the stripped lower, around $550 plus shipping. You might also check out the EE. There are some really good deals in there. No matter which way you go, J&T and Del-Ton are both good companies to work with good products.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:53:00 PM EDT
how about all the above? I have bought complete kits from all the above places without a problem.
The chromed bolt carrier assemblies from Delton had out of spec keys that needed to be replaced but Betty at Delton is a pleasure to deal with. My M&A parts sets were very nice also.
All in all I have put together 18 rifles in the the last month and have had great luck with J&T,Delton and M&A. I doubt you will have problems with any of them

Gunner
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 6:56:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mtpilatus:
You might have another look at Del-Ton. They use the same barrel at RRA and it is said the same CMT upper. $455-465 for the kit less the stripped lower, around $550 plus shipping. You might also check out the EE. There are some really good deals in there. No matter which way you go, J&T and Del-Ton are both good companies to work with good products.



Does Del-Ton offer an A2 mid length kit? I didnt see on on their site....

Who is EE?

Gunner: Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:00:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Surgical:

Originally Posted By mtpilatus:
You might have another look at Del-Ton. They use the same barrel at RRA and it is said the same CMT upper. $455-465 for the kit less the stripped lower, around $550 plus shipping. You might also check out the EE. There are some really good deals in there. No matter which way you go, J&T and Del-Ton are both good companies to work with good products.



Does Del-Ton offer an A2 mid length kit? I didnt see on on their site....

Who is EE?

Gunner: Thanks for the input.




Why do you want an A2?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:05:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 7:11:19 PM EDT by Surgical]
3 reasons

1. I am USMC active duty. A2 style upper is familiar to me. I feel at home :)<main reason
2. I believe they are going to stop making A2 uppers soon. I want one.
3. Cost. Its cheaper to buy an A2 upper than it is to buy a flat top with a rear site or A2 carry handle, by a lot.


I'll pick up a flat top with some trick optics later......an upper that I can slap on the AR I am building now, and eventually finish it up to make it its own.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:09:22 PM EDT
Good reasons. In general, I usually advise on A3, with a carry handle or BUIS. Just more options in the long run. But you are right, they are about $80 more..... or 4 boxes of decent ammo.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:13:28 PM EDT
Del-Ton is actually looking good right now. If I can get them to configure it with mid vs car it would be $40 cheaper than M&A.
Does anyone know if Del-Ton offers Mil/Leo discount?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:26:13 PM EDT
Another thumbs up for J&T.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 9:22:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Surgical:
Del-Ton is actually looking good right now. If I can get them to configure it with mid vs car it would be $40 cheaper than M&A.
Does anyone know if Del-Ton offers Mil/Leo discount?



Del-ton has become one of my favorite dealers. I don't know if they offer a Military/LEO discount but they do offer an ARFCOM discount. I'm pretty sure that they do not have a midlength option though. Neither does J&T. If you are looking at midlength (which is a very nice shooting configuration, BTW) check out Eaglefirearms (another favorite). They carry a lot of RRA stuff including midlength and offer great service and prices. Check and see if they have a military/leo discount.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 9:48:41 PM EDT
They dont have the midlength option in a kit or period?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:42:13 AM EDT
jt
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:42:21 AM EDT
I've heard J & T's lower parts kits arn't that great, is that true?
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:52:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pred:
I've heard J & T's lower parts kits arn't that great, is that true?



Pretty much ALL LPK's are from the same places.... it is DPMS that probably has the worst reputation. It is not uncommon to have an out of spec pin, or bolt catch, from anyone who sells LPK's. I just check that my pivot and takedown pins fit before installed, check the safety selector detent fits, and check that the roll pin for the bolt catch will pass easily through the bolt catch, before I drive it in the lower. No matter WHO I got the LPK from.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:12:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 6:13:03 AM EDT by AtlantaFireman]
Del-ton has become one of my favorite dealers. I don't know if they offer a Military/LEO discount but they do offer an ARFCOM discount.

Tell me about this discount.....anything to save a few bucks.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 11:48:13 AM EDT
Made some phone calls.
Del-Ton does not offer a mid-length kit or even a mid length upper. I guess I will catch them on my next build. They were very nice on the phone, and do offer a small discount for Mil/LEO.

J&T does not offer anything mid length as well...but they too were polite and well versed. They also offer a Mil/LEO discount.

I called M&A today and they confirmed that their mid-length upper is indeed ordered right from RRA. So basically, for $495 I would get a RRA A2 mid upper, M4 butstock (will get A2 style later) and LPK. If the LPK sucks it wont be the end of the world. This is the exact config I want. h

I think I am going to go to a couple local shops today and see if I can live with an A2 car style. Its cheaper, would get here faster, but not %100 what I had in mind. Otherwise its looking like M&A/RRA is my only option.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 5:56:58 PM EDT
I'm kind of in the same boat. I want a 20" GI contour kit and only M&A has them. No Del-Ton. No J&T. I'm scared by M&A's reputation, but they are the only game in town.

I do hear they will stand behind their stuff.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:05:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 6:06:13 PM EDT by Surgical]
I hear you man.
I'm in deeper poo now.
I actually went to a couple local shops today and checked out some of the AR's and M4's

The CAR handgaurds arent as short as I thought, I could live with them...but I simply LOVE the flat top with the front/rear flip down sights.....too bad it costs as much as a decent scope for that configuration.

I have an addictive personality, and this site is NOT helping it one bit
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:06:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2006 6:11:13 PM EDT by Rkangel777]

Originally Posted By AtlantaFireman:
Del-ton has become one of my favorite dealers. I don't know if they offer a Military/LEO discount but they do offer an ARFCOM discount.

Tell me about this discount.....anything to save a few bucks.




Check it out here www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=100&t=148114

Once you're registered they offer a discount on everything but complete kits.


Surgical,

Last time I checked they don't offer midlength option at all. It's really the only thing missing from their othewise fairly extensive catalog. Saw your post above.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:10:41 PM EDT


Surgical,

Last time I checked they don't offer midlength option at all. It's really the only thing missing from their othewise fairly extensive catalog.



J&T and Del-Ton both said there was not enough volume to stock those kits since they need to buy in bulk to get decent deals....
You are right though, as of today neither stocks, nor plans on stocking a mid length option.
Too bad...IMO mid length is the BEST all around option.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:14:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Surgical:


Surgical,

Last time I checked they don't offer midlength option at all. It's really the only thing missing from their othewise fairly extensive catalog.



J&T and Del-Ton both said there was not enough volume to stock those kits since they need to buy in bulk to get decent deals....
You are right though, as of today neither stocks, nor plans on stocking a mid length option.
Too bad...IMO mid length is the BEST all around option.



I love mine! If that is the way you're leaning I definitely recommend it, especially if you are looking at 16" barrels. Something about midlength just makes sense.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 6:35:58 PM EDT
Finally someone agrees with me!
I really like to follow the vets advice on this but like I said M&A is looking like the only option.
Even if their CS sucks, as long as I get one midlength A2 I'll be happy.
From then on out I'll be all about Del-Ton, Eagle, and J&T.

IF I could afford a flat-top upper with the flipdown f/r sights I would consider that route, but at that point I would be in the $700+ range, and thats not appealing to my checkbook right now.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:43:49 PM EDT
I'll post back on this thread in about a week, I ordered an M&A 24 inch varmint kit yesterday, and if anyone else is interested I'll post back on quality and anyhting else you wanna know!

John
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 7:49:29 PM EDT
Yes please do.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 7:33:39 AM EDT
Maybe I have been lucky but I have built several kits ( like 18 or 20) for local LEO and others from M&A. The parts have been great. I can only think of twice there were problems, one a defective sight, the other a wrong part shipped. Both times they were quick and curteous to resolve the problem.
Link Posted: 1/28/2006 6:11:33 PM EDT
I vote deltonhug.gif
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:04:49 AM EDT
does anyone know who makes the parts kit that M&A sells with their kit?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:25:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Surgical:
does anyone know who makes the parts kit that M&A sells with their kit?



Somewhere there was a posting with this information so forgive me if I'm proven elsewise...

All varmint uppers = LMT
Everthing else = RRA
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:44:28 PM EDT
rb precision

rob will kit up whatever you want. check him out.

hope this helps.

septic tank

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:51:08 PM EDT
Delton was good to me!!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:06:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Surgical:
Made some phone calls.
Del-Ton does not offer a mid-length kit or even a mid length upper. I guess I will catch them on my next build. They were very nice on the phone, and do offer a small discount for Mil/LEO.

J&T does not offer anything mid length as well...but they too were polite and well versed. They also offer a Mil/LEO discount.

I called M&A today and they confirmed that their mid-length upper is indeed ordered right from RRA. So basically, for $495 I would get a RRA A2 mid upper, M4 butstock (will get A2 style later) and LPK. If the LPK sucks it wont be the end of the world. This is the exact config I want.

With Del-Ton or J&T I could get everything I want, minus the midlength style setup.

I think I am going to go to a couple local shops today and see if I can live with an A2 car style. Its cheaper, would get here faster, but not %100 what I had in mind. Otherwise its looking like M&A/RRA is my only option.



I live five minutes from M&A and know a few of them personally from working the local gun shows. The old timer that works the tables for M&A was selling gun parts when the Dead Sea was just getting sick.

Out of all the LPK's I have used I have only had problems with J&T and Bravo Company. Like someone said, all AR lower parts come from the same foundries so it is not common to find a problem with anyones LPK's, just luck of the draw.

DPMS LPK's are cheaper because the QC is lessened, making the "chance" of an out of spec part greater. The parts come from the same place as Bushmaster, only Bushmaster's QC is much higher.

I have never had a problem with M&A LPK's. The foundary marks are the same as my Bushmaster LPK's.

J&T and M&A are outstanding companies. Almost all AR parts the same with few exceptions. There just aren't that many plants tooled up to make parts. In a market as saturated as the AR market, margins are very low. Manufacturing is streamlined and marketing takes over at the individual distributors.

You will have nothing but great success with both M&A and J&T. I have not dealt with Del-ton so I cannot comment. All AR parts distributors are used to having lower parts shipped back to them being out of spec, so a return will not be an issue.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:12:35 AM EDT
DEL TON hands down
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:19:40 AM EDT
Almost two years ago I bought a midlength kit from M&A. It turned out to be a Rock River. As you said, the whole kit from M&A was about the same as the upper alone direct from RRA.

I had NO problems with any of the lower or any other parts.

The rifle I built from this kit is exactly what I wanted and shoots 1 MOA with Walmart Winchester WB ammo. I'm very pleased with it and it was a great deal.

You're smart to want a middie. If that's what you want, get it!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:27:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 7:28:36 PM EDT by Johnnyvegas]
Well, got my 24 inch heavy barrel kit from M&A yesterday, and couldn't be happier, assembled it on a DPMS lower, and the only hitch was I had to file the detent for the pivot pin just a bit, (spring and detent would bottom in the hole while blocking the pivot pin hole). It was my first lower reciever assembly, and was pretty happy with how easily it went together. Did just a little stoning to the contact areas of the hammer, disconnector, and trigger, bent, and clipped the springs a bit, and now the trigger pull is WAAAAY better than my Bushmaster (still a bit creepy, but much lighter, and smoother). Am waiting on my scope now, so I can take it out, and see if it runs as good as it looks!

M&A did me good so far!

John
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:14:29 PM EDT
I have ordered 2 kits from del-ton and was pleased with both of them. They have the most accessory options. I have an M1S build. It has functioned 100% but the machine work on the upper is a little rough. I dont think I will ever order fromM1S again.

+1 for Del-Ton!!!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:17:47 AM EDT
"I've heard J & T's lower parts kits arn't that great, is that true?"


Three lowers built to-date with J&T LPKs - one very stiff safety - called, they send a new safety, detent, and spring by first class mail for free - no problemo after that.

It can happen with anyone's LPK - the distributors don't make the kits.

When it comes to upper receiver assembly, THAT is when the guys in the shop make the difference.

flcracker
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:00:24 AM EDT
I received my Del-Ton kit this week, as an ex-Army Armorer it's a tight kit. I also paid 465 shipped with an LEO discount. I will build on a Superior Arms lower for the 2nd time, well built and RBS also gives a good LEO DISCOUNT.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:49:14 AM EDT
I've been happy with J&T until recently. I ordered a 6.8 upper from them on 26 Jan. I called a short while ago to check the status of the order and was told it wasn't even built yet and they didn't know when it would be done as "they" were packing up for the Shot Show. The first 5.56 upper I ordered from them early in January took only 6 days to get to Georgia but 9 days after my second order, it still isn't built. I would think a call would have been in order at some point in the last 9 days! Sorry, just had to rant a little.

Tom
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:20:34 PM EDT
Wow! J&T has me in the exact same holding pattern situation as GaCop103! I ordered on the 23rd and whan I called to get status was told that they will start building again on 2/7.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:36:00 PM EDT
I contacted Model 1 Sales, they have them in stock ready to ship so I ordered from them and cancelled with J&T. Model 1 rep said it would be in the mail Monday and I would have it by Friday. I actually saved a bit of cash ordering from them, $508 with bolt/carrier, charge handle, 25 round PRI mag and $15 shipping. I have a bunch of hand loads waiting for that puppy to get here.

Tom
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:52:48 PM EDT
I just put my Delton 20" kit together today. I have not shot it yet though it has been tested fired at the company. Overall I really like the entire kit. The color perfectly matches the Superior arms lower. Plus they have great customer service.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:14:52 PM EDT
Model 1 Sales give a LEO discount?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:33:40 AM EDT
I just received my DPMS lower with lpk and 6 position stock installed from Del-Ton. Picked it up last night- my Bushy 11.5/5/5 upper finally has the other half.

Finish is excellent, stock is tight/solid,function check reveals a trigger that has a little slop but I think that's just the differance between it and my slabside 20". All in all I can't wait to have a day off to get to the range- Tuesday is too far away.

I only have 2 problems with Del-Ton. The first is that they said they'd contact me when the lower shipped, I had called them and explained that my scedule is very tight so I needed to make plans to get to the shop to pick it up. I can let that slide- I was asking for a favor and they are a busy place. The lady who answers the phone personafies Southern hospitality. She makes me miss those AF TDY's to Pope,Charleston,etc...he
Overall a couple of minor problems but I am satisfied and will use Del-Ton again.
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